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new here, and must be doing something wrong as I have posted but receive no replys.  I was hoping for some help on tapering off od 2mg times three of lorazepam a day.    heres to hoping someone can give some hope to me today..............
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I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. i am weaning off ativan right now and it is horrible at the end. I am down to one dose and the last 3 have been horrific. I am extremely senstive and you are correct that they do not tell you how addicting it is or the possibility of what can happen when going off. I was at .5 mg 5x daily and down to 1/4 daily now. Stopping that this Sunday so expecting it to be really bad until I adjust. I pray you get some guidance and relief? How bad has it been so far?

 

Are you working with a doctor?

 

I have worked with my doctor and kinesiologist. My fist docotr wanted to wen me way to fast but new one is working with me and kinesiologist. The kinesiogist has helped so much with when to drop and I know if is working becaseu I accidently took 1/4 more than I should have a couple weeks ago and was ick for days.

 

Feel free to reach out. I do not have a lot of experience and probably can't give you much advice but I will listen and pray for you. My faith is the only things getting me through this.

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Hi white river

 

You've been through quite a difficult time and I'm sorry that benzos have contributed to your pain.

 

If you can provide some more background info on your benzo history such as how long have you been using it, do you have ample supply to taper and do you  maybe have a preferred method of tapering i.e. dry or liquid (if you don't know - no problem), then we can assist you better.

 

In the meantime I'll see if admin can move your thread to "planning your withdrawal" as that's the place where you'll get the best responses.

 

Hope you're doing better and know that there are many here who are knowledgeable and willing to help.

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Hi white river

 

You have been through a tremendous ordeal and I am so sorry you have to deal with benzos on top of it. Please do not be hard on yourself- benzos effect how your brain works and functions and for the majority of us it changes our personalities too.

 

The anger, depression and outbursts are all normal given the trauma you have been through plus the side effects of the meds you are on. I am sorry you have lost so many people close to you.

 

The good news is you are now taking control back of your life. By stopping lorazepam you are removing all these side effects that are making you feel depressed and withdrawing from family and society.

 

However you need to know that it is probably not going to be a walk in the park. But once again the good news is many people before us have done this and there are tried and tested ways of doing this to minimize wd and remain functional.

 

The way most of us do it is cut between 5-10% of our current dose every 2 weeks. That means if I take 1mg of lorazepam then the first 2 weeks I will reduce my dose by 1 - 10% =0.9 mg. The next 2 weeks I will take my current dose which is 0.9mg and reduce that by 10% which will be 0.9 -10%= 0.81.

 

We cut over 2 weeks to give our bodies time to respond to the reduced dose with wd symptoms. If wd symptoms are too bad then you know 10% is too much and instead of cutting by 10% you need to cut by a lower percentage.  I hope this makes sense.

 

The next step would be to determine HOW you make reductions in your dose. You can use a pill cutter if you can cut your pills accurately or use a liquid suspension.

 

You are on the right track and have made great progress! You are going to be so proud of yourself when you beat this and get your life back!

 

On a side note- you say you only have an old computer. Do you know that you can access the forum on your phone as well?

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Hello white river!

 

I'm sorry to hear how hard things are right now for you.

 

I would like to help you come up with a slow, patient-led tapering plan, if that's your goal. Lorazepam is fairly potent and I think the smallest pills are maybe 0.5mg. I suggest considering a more accurate approach to reducing than pill cutting. There are two general ways to do this: wet and dry. At first the options can be overwhelming; I will try to make them simple, but do take your time to consider what I am describing...

 

Wet tapering would require either a commercial or compounded liquid lorazepam, or else doing a daily liquid discard taper. The most convenient would be the pharmacy options; liquid lorazepam is available commercially in the US I believe. Liquid compounding carries a risk, since it has a variety of ingredients and can be absorbed a little differently than a tablet; it also requires a second script from your prescribing doctor, and it can get a little complicated if the liquid isn't well tolerated or your doctor wants to lead your taper.

 

There is a tapering method called a daily liquid discard taper, in which your daily dose of tablets is dissolved in a tiny amount of alcohol, then diluted with water in a measuring vessel. An amount of liquid representing your current reduction is then removed from this dilution, and then you divide the remaining liquid into your daily doses and take them when needed. This is the simplest at-home liquid method that I know of; it wastes medicine, but that's not a problem if you have a steady script. I like that it still has you using tablets, they're just dissolved/suspended in a little alcohol and water for easy measuring and dividing; with this method there is very little risk of liquid intolerance from my experience.

 

The dry tapering options are based on using a scale and a razor or metal nail file. Typically buddies buy one or two cheap 0.001g scales off of Amazon and there are methods to taper safely that way. The cheap scales jump all over the place in my experience. However, if you hate mixing liquids or the wet approach puts you off for other reasons, then consider that dry tapering works well for many people and can be simpler to understand than liquids in some ways.

 

I think I understand you are doing three doses right now. But it seems you've said that instead of taking 2mg, you're now taking 3.58mgs divided between three doses.

 

So before we think about the math...

1) Could you tell me what tapering approach you'd like to explore first?

2) Can you please clarify what total daily dose (in mgs) you're taking?

3) Is your doctor willing to keep prescribing your current daily dose, ad infinitum?

 

I hope we can help you find an easy and safe path forward for your needs.  :smitten:

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I got all three of your PMs white river; let's keep this conversation in-thread. I've quoted the message you sent which answers my previous questions....

 

fall of 2019 given 2 mg, three times a day of lorazepam

last month started taper

had nothing to go by except no more then 5 % at one time

8 am............... 1 1/6 mg

2 pm............... 1 1/6 mg

8 pm...............  1 1/4mg  (bedtime dose)

2 am............... 1 1/6 mg.

 

I know I did not step down correctly........ but I am not capable of figuring the math, and neither dr think I need off, although I will have access to the 6 mg a month.  so I lost my husband, he wants divorce.... I am totally alone.  I ordered 2 scales and what I need and should be here tomorrow from amazon.  our pharmasists do not want to mess with this as we are very rural and they keep busty enough.  is this doable and basic time limit one year two year???????????  thank u so much

 

Great! You've answered all three of my previous questions.

 

1) I understand you want to explore dry tapering; two scales are better than one I hear. Myself or someone else can help you with the pill-weight math once your scales arrive and help you set up a reduction or two to get your bearings on dry tapering.

 

2) Thanks for clarifying your dosages and schedule; I also did a 2am dose for a few months and I know how hard that one can be. I understand now, you were on 2mg 3x per day, for a total of 6mg/day of lorazepam. I calculated that you are currently taking 4.75mg/day.

 

3) I understand that you are being prescribed 6mg/day, regularly each month. I think it's a really good thing that neither of your doctors are trying to take you off of this medicine at their own pace. A steady prescription will hopefully allow you to taper at a rate that you can handle with the most functionality; a slow, patient-led taper can sometimes take a few years.

 

Yes, dry tapering is very doable. And the duration of the taper depends entirely on how well you respond to reductions. At your age, and with a couple years of regular use, I suggest going slowly. The upside to lorazepam's short half-life is that you'll know what you're in for soon after reducing; the downside is that you'll likely need to hang on to at least three doses until you get much much lower in dosage.

 

So yes, your math was a little off if you were trying to make a single 5% reduction. From 6mg/day -> 4.75mg/day is a ~21% reduction. Before we discuss reduction rates I have a few more questions; please hit the reply button on this thread to answer this time. Thanks!

 

1) How many days/weeks ago did you make the reduction to 4.75mg/day?

2) How are you currently functioning? Eating, sleeping, gentle exercise?

3) Do you own an accurate pill splitter? Please tell us more about how you divide your pills.

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white,

 

  I just want to wish you well. I know you're going through a lot right now and slownsteady is helping you with your taper. I do a liquid taper myself but it sounds like you are most comfortable with a dry taper using scales. Everything is going to be OK:) You will heal from this, it just takes time. The same is true with your divorce and all aspects of your life. Time heals all wounds. I'm glad your here and I hope that it is getting easier and easier for you to navigate.

 

I look forward to following you and exchanging support.

 

HM

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ok, I started this sch last sunday.  had every test and scan and blood work up panels done, heart scans etc and they all say healthy.  I have not much appetite and salads and non fattening things is what I eat but do drink soda...... which has caffine and so does my migraine pills  used to be so active now I isolate myself because I am so ashmed and withdrawn that I am in the bed 90 percent of my day bible studing unless I am doing laundry or making meals or cleaning.  he does all outside work I used to do.  I use a small scissor for cuts and eyeball it that is how I know I am off on my cuts and I am not smart to calculate I will have to pay someone to figure my next dose out. 
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ok, I started this sch last sunday.  I have lost 50 pounds in the lasy year and a half and had every test and scan and blood work up panels done, heart scans etc and they all say healthy.  I am just 5' and 95 pounds. I have not much appetite and salads and non fattening things is what I eat but do drink soda...... which has caffine and so does my migraine pills  used to be so active now I isolate myself because I am so ashmed and withdrawn that I am in the bed 90 percent of my day bible studing unless I am doing laundry or making meals or cleaning.  he does all outside work I used to do.  I use a small scissor for cuts and eyeball it that is how I know I am off on my cuts and I am not smart to calculate I will have to pay someone to figure my next dose out.  when u say it will take me years to come off, I am 63 years old, everything I had is now lost.  over something I take responsibility for but did not understand. so good guess 1 year 2, 3 years?  would it be best for all if I just went to a house for people like me?  I don't want that I want to live again, but reality is knowledge too.  am I gonna burden people for years just to clean up my mistake I made?  I am determined but it sounding like tie is not on my side!!!!!  I am not a spring chicken anymore!!!!!!  please tell me I can do this, and I know I could not afford to go to a benzo house to get better if it takes years, so is it safe to stay alone?

 

Thanks for your reply and more details about your experience. Personally, I don't suggest cutting tablets to anything smaller than 1/4s; some people say they can do it, but I cannot. Too many crumbles.

 

I use an aluminum pill splitter like this: [nobbc]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MH6XTL7[/nobbc]

 

And here is a 5-minute instructional on how to use an aluminum pill cutter to cut perfect 1/2s and 1/4s from flat round tablets...

 

Lorazepam reductions seem to effect most people in a just a day or two; Ashton says the half-life is 6-12hrs. I would guess withdrawal symptoms might peak around 2-4 days after a reduction; I can't say from experience.

 

You've mentioned a number of details about the last year and a half of declining health.

1) Could you tell us more about any new or increased symptoms you've experience between now and last Sunday when you reduced your daily dose to ~4.75mg?

 

If you tolerate relatively large reductions at this time, it might be best to start with pill cutting for reductions. The scales can be a real hassle, though I think they'll come in handy when your dose is lower, or sooner if you're struggling with WD symptoms.

 

2) Am I right in guessing you're working with 1mg lorazepam tablets?

I hope we can help you start feeling better soon.  :smitten:

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I guess I am still doing something wrong, or no one can help'  does anyone have a slow tapers sch for cutting to come off lorazepma present cut at 5 1/4 mg a day.  I do not know how to taper and what cut is next I will need it this next week.  or would it be better just to go somewhere that will take me............... I would rather have your support ya'll come recommended and so nice but I am scared and flying solo and my next step is soon and have no scd.  please, if anyone will, someone who has been in trouble with lorazepma.  this is a big dose, I learn 2 years after the fact all about the evilness in it.  but I am determinned. thank you in advance
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Hi White,

 

I am sorry your still confused about your taper. I wish I could help :( I do a liquid taper and find it to be very easy but it may be confusing for you. I don't know. I am on Xanax and I take a 2 mg tab and dissolve it in 200 ml which equals .01 mg per ml. I draw up my doses in a syringe and save the rest. Right now,my doses are 16. 5 ml so I just draw that up and squirt it in a shot glass and drink it. I dose multiple times per day because Xanax has a short half life.

Having said that, I know there are many people on here who do really well with cutting/shaving their pills and using scales. Right now, you should be able to get along for the next little while using your pill cutter. I know you have talked about wishing you could go somewhere and have them take care of you. I wish that too :) But detox is just them taking you off your drug rapidly and most people don't tolerate it well. In my opinion, you're best off tapering at home. Maybe writing down your taper and doses will help you feel more organized.

 

Have as good a Friday as you can. Take care,

 

HM

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I guess I am still doing something wrong, or no one can help'  does anyone have a slow tapers sch for cutting to come off lorazepma present cut at 5 1/4 mg a day.  I do not know how to taper and what cut is next I will need it this next week.  or would it be better just to go somewhere that will take me............... I would rather have your support ya'll come recommended and so nice but I am scared and flying solo and my next step is soon and have no scd.  please, if anyone will, someone who has been in trouble with lorazepma.  this is a big dose, I learn 2 years after the fact all about the evilness in it.  but I am determinned. thank you in advance

 

Hello white river,

You've managed to post on your tapering support thread again! I am celebrating this success.

 

I want to remind you that this is your taper, and it appears to be a self-led taper; therefore there is no apparent necessity in taking a further reduction next week. Rushing into the tapering process without a good understanding of how to proceed is, in my opinion, reckless and potentially dangerous.

 

You mention being on 5 1/4mg/day. The doses you gave me here...

8 am............... 1 1/6 mg

2 pm............... 1 1/6 mg

8 pm...............  1 1/4mg  (bedtime dose)

2 am............... 1 1/6 mg

...they seem to add up to 4.75mg, not 5.25mg. If you add up all the fractions you get 3/6ths and 1/4th, which is 0.75mgs, and then add up all the whole numbers, 1mg per dose, so 4mg; combine 0.75mg with 4mg and you get 4.75mg. If your information above is incorrect, please update us.

 

So as far as I can tell you, last Sunday you went from 6mg/day to 4.75mg/day; a ~21% reduction. Because of how well you seem to have handled this large reduction, I suggest using a pill splitter to do further reductions for the near future. With a decent pill splitter, you should be able to make 1/2s and 1/4s of your tablets.

 

I use an aluminum pill splitter like this: [nobbc]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MH6XTL7[/nobbc]

 

And here is a 5-minute instructional on how to use an aluminum pill cutter to cut perfect 1/2s and 1/4s from flat round tablets...

 

I can help you work out a reduction to do by next week. If you'd like, we can do it using only tablets and a pill splitter; this is definitely the easiest way to start reducing at your current doses. The scales might drive you a bit crazy at first...

 

I think symptom monitoring is a very important part of safe tapering; I suggest in your case getting a paper journal for this purpose and recording at a minimum the date, your total daily dose, and any withdrawal-related symptoms that you are experiencing on the day.

 

Here is Ashton's observations of common benzo withdrawal symptoms, to help familiarize you. Please don't expect to experience all of them! Some people notice few if any of these types of symptoms during their taper; the most common symptom seems to be increased anxiety. But, because you're new to all this, I would like you to know that these are the things to keep an eye out for...

https://www.benzoinfo.com/ashtonmanual/chapter3/#ch3

 

Three more questions!  :)

1) Could you tell us what potency your tablets are (it says on the prescription bottle). Are they 0.5mg, 1mg or 2mg tablets?

2) Do you feel more agitated during the day (anxiety, fatigue, etc) or during the night (insomnia, restless legs, frequent waking)?

3) Have you noticed increased withdrawal symptoms, since last Sunday? Or conversely, any improvements?

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Hi white

 

It's great to see that you are finding your thread and replying here! You're getting better at this technology thing!

 

For slownsteady to help you it is really important to answer his questions. May I suggest that every time you come here you double check to see if there were questions and if you answered them all. The only way to safely guide you is to make sure we have the correct info. We cannot make assumptions otherwise we might give you wrong advice.

 

Your next step will be to answer the questions that slow posted today and then if he feels he has enough information he can give you a suggested tapering schedule.

 

You have mentioned several times that you feel very alone. Is there any family that can support you through this or do you have a local church that you can join where you can get some level of support?

 

This might seem daunting now but you've come this far. You just need to believe in yourself and remain strong. Your determination to beat this is wonderful!

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I can't see his replys......................... I seen yours is the only one.  I see no questions he has asked.  I am so sick today, I know my cuts are not accurate and if I had someone to help I would be better.  I am not allowed to pm and that is my way to find y letters so I am lost again.  its frustrating to be sick, scared, alone and not being able to understand technology................... I just found this link after searching and getting discouraged all day and had given up on anyone helping with a sch.  I see no questions anywhere just your message today is all I have
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I guess I am still doing something wrong, or no one can help'  does anyone have a slow tapers sch for cutting to come off lorazepma present cut at 5 1/4 mg a day.  I do not know how to taper and what cut is next I will need it this next week.  or would it be better just to go somewhere that will take me............... I would rather have your support ya'll come recommended and so nice but I am scared and flying solo and my next step is soon and have no scd.  please, if anyone will, someone who has been in trouble with lorazepma.  this is a big dose, I learn 2 years after the fact all about the evilness in it.  but I am determinned. thank you in advance

 

Hello white river,

You've managed to post on your tapering support thread again! I am celebrating this success.

 

I want to remind you that this is your taper, and it appears to be a self-led taper; therefore there is no apparent necessity in taking a further reduction next week. Rushing into the tapering process without a good understanding of how to proceed is, in my opinion, reckless and potentially dangerous.

 

You mention being on 5 1/4mg/day. The doses you gave me here...

8 am............... 1 1/6 mg

2 pm............... 1 1/6 mg

8 pm...............  1 1/4mg  (bedtime dose)

2 am............... 1 1/6 mg

...they seem to add up to 4.75mg, not 5.25mg. If you add up all the fractions you get 3/6ths and 1/4th, which is 0.75mgs, and then add up all the whole numbers, 1mg per dose, so 4mg; combine 0.75mg with 4mg and you get 4.75mg. If your information above is incorrect, please update us.

 

So as far as I can tell you, last Sunday you went from 6mg/day to 4.75mg/day; a ~21% reduction. Because of how well you seem to have handled this large reduction, I suggest using a pill splitter to do further reductions for the near future. With a decent pill splitter, you should be able to make 1/2s and 1/4s of your tablets.

 

I use an aluminum pill splitter like this: [nobbc]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MH6XTL7[/nobbc]

 

And here is a 5-minute instructional on how to use an aluminum pill cutter to cut perfect 1/2s and 1/4s from flat round tablets...

 

I can help you work out a reduction to do by next week. If you'd like, we can do it using only tablets and a pill splitter; this is definitely the easiest way to start reducing at your current doses. The scales might drive you a bit crazy at first...

 

I think symptom monitoring is a very important part of safe tapering; I suggest in your case getting a paper journal for this purpose and recording at a minimum the date, your total daily dose, and any withdrawal-related symptoms that you are experiencing on the day.

 

Here is Ashton's observations of common benzo withdrawal symptoms, to help familiarize you. Please don't expect to experience all of them! Some people notice few if any of these types of symptoms during their taper; the most common symptom seems to be increased anxiety. But, because you're new to all this, I would like you to know that these are the things to keep an eye out for...

https://www.benzoinfo.com/ashtonmanual/chapter3/#ch3

 

Three more questions!  :)

1) Could you tell us what potency your tablets are (it says on the prescription bottle). Are they 0.5mg, 1mg or 2mg tablets?

2) Do you feel more agitated during the day (anxiety, fatigue, etc) or during the night (insomnia, restless legs, frequent waking)?

3) Have you noticed increased withdrawal symptoms, since last Sunday? Or conversely, any improvements?

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the last 2 days have been rough anxiety, nausea, and depression.  very upset that I can't grasp this to get my answers for a scd.  and I understand your part just upset that I am so stupid to not be able to understand technology.  my cuts are uneven and I feel that's a lot of the trouble, and maybe to much.  they have done every test and it all comes back good they say I am just really depressed and want to give me more meds................... I said no  I am not handleing the 21 percent very well yesterday and today. I did order the pill splitter u told me about and am willing later to do the water you also said if I get low enough.  2mg size pills and day agitation yesterday and today.  hubby will help me with scale and splitter............ for now he said he is in and we will try this out........... thank God.  thants what I say I think since my nighttime dose is just a bump higher I do better and then the days the uneven cuts have messed me up...... will I be ok?  can you try to help me? you are, but I am just scared. thanks big time thanks
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Hi white

 

To make this process less stressful and smooth I think it would be really beneficial if you can find someone to explain to you how to navigate this site.

 

May I suggest getting someone like a neighbour or paying a university student to spend a whole morning with you just to get you familiar with how to operate benzobuddies?

 

You are going to absorb a lot of information from here and taking the stress out of how to find posts will make it so much easier. We cannot explain the site over private messages it's too difficult.

 

So I suggest you set yourself your first goal and that would be to understand the site and get someone in person to explain it to you.

 

When that hurdle is out of the way you'll feel much better and less anxious and you can then focus on your taper and not stress about the technology.

 

How does that sound to you?

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what does it mean to hang on to 3 doses for me to get lower...... cuz I have taken off too much now and I am shaking and nauseated and what I done was stupid I didn't understand, I guess there is not much I do understand  anymore in life.............. like why this happened.  please don't leave me, please  but what does that mean hang on to 3 doses cuz I think I cut too fast now I am sick. and I can't find where he wrote again

 

Hi white

 

I've received you private message and continue it here because I cannot find what you are referring to. There are no references to 3 doses.

 

If you feel that your cuts have been too big and it's too much to handle then you can increase your daily dose again to give yourself some relief and stay and hold on that dose to stabilize again for a while.

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hubby is going to be assisting me , he is very savy with all this computer and he will understand the scale and numbers.  we are very rural and it would take 2 hours to go to a college and school is closed her for summer.  part of the issue is I can't grasp technology, never sent a text in my life no cell phone. yah.  I know if I can make it through this its all coming!!!!!!  how can I ever thank you........ I will still need you for a couple more day, or longer, I am sure.  God Bless you ..................
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the last 2 days have been rough anxiety, nausea, and depression.  very upset that I can't grasp this to get my answers for a scd.  and I understand your part just upset that I am so stupid to not be able to understand technology.  my cuts are uneven and I feel that's a lot of the trouble, and maybe to much.  they have done every test and it all comes back good they say I am just really depressed and want to give me more meds................... I said no  I am not handleing the 21 percent very well yesterday and today. I did order the pill splitter u told me about and am willing later to do the water you also said if I get low enough.  2mg size pills and day agitation yesterday and today.  hubby will help me with scale and splitter............ for now he said he is in and we will try this out........... thank God.  thants what I say I think since my nighttime dose is just a bump higher I do better and then the days the uneven cuts have messed me up...... will I be ok?  can you try to help me? you are, but I am just scared. thanks big time thanks

 

Okay! Thanks Jelly Baby so much for your help; I agree that learning to navigate the site is the the first step, and anyone who can help white river in person would be such a blessing right now!

 

White river, thank you for this update on your condition; I'm so sorry you're not feeling well right now. I've gathered the following answers to my questions...

 

1) I understand that you have 2mg tablets.

2) I understand that you're having more symptoms during the day, and less at night.

3) I understand that you are feeling worse since last Sunday, and your symptoms sound like benzo withdrawal.

 

That was a big cut you took on Sunday, and it sounds like your withdrawal symptoms are overwhelming. The good news is that the benzo withdrawal symptoms will pass with time at a steady dose. The body has amazing ways that it heals during this recovery, so I suggest we do everything we can to help. Perhaps your anxiety, nausea and depression are caused by inaccurate dosing, or perhaps by the large reduction you took. Let's try to fix both.

 

I suggest for now changing your dosage schedule to:

8 am............... 1.5 mg (3/4 of one 2mg tablet)

2 pm............... 1.5 mg (3/4 of one 2mg tablet)

8 pm............... 1.5 mg (3/4 of one 2mg tablet)

2 am............... 1.5 mg (3/4 of one 2mg tablet)

 

This is reinstating at 6mg/day, but my suggestion is to only do this temporarily, so that your body can recover from the shock of your previous reduction and inaccurate dosing. I think you will be trading a little time in exchange for less suffering and better clarity of thought. It's back to square one, but only in dosage; you're learning more every day!

 

It's hard to reduce 2mg tablets gradually with a pill cutter; the smallest unit I would suggest working with is 1/4 tablet intervals, and that's 0.5mg. 0.5mg is not a gentle reduction and difficult to spread out over your many doses. If you can get prescribed your dose in 1mg tablets that would make things much easier, but for now, we'll work something else out.

 

Since you've already bought scales, let's start looking at how to dry taper. The process will consist of calibrating your scales (instructions will come with each scale), weighing the days tablets, shaving them with a razor or a metal nail file until they weigh the intended weight, and then storing them until dosing time. With two scales you can go back and forth between them while weighing and shaving the tablets until you feel confident you're close to the intended weight. We can discuss the "intended weight" in a future post; for now I just wanted to describe the process of using the scales. Once you get a hang of this, you could get a pill organizer or a Plano box (a little fishing tackle / craft organizer) and weigh out a weeks worth of doses at once.

 

I suggest trying to eliminate your 2am dose first; this is based on my personal experience with having a 2am dose and how disruptive it is for sleep. I suggest doing this one of two ways. 1) Either switch to 3 doses per day ~8 hours apart (an example would be 5am, 1pm, 9pm) which would be ideal since you'd be back to full 2mg tablets and you'd have 8 hours to sleep at night. Or 2) if you don't want to give up your 2am dose all at once, I suggest tapering this dose first until it's entirely eliminated. This would give you more time to adjust to sleeping the whole night on your own. In either case, my suggestion is to try to get to 3 doses a day, and earn yourself that full night of sleep!

 

If this makes sense to you and you'd like to proceed as I am suggesting here is a summary and three more questions...

 

Summary: I suggest, for right right now, reinstating at 6mg/day by taking 1.5mg/6 hours as 3/4 of one 2mg tablet. If you'd like to switch back to 3x 2mg doses, 8hrs apart (an example would be 5am, 1pm, 9pm), I suggest giving yourself at least a few days to a week to recover from your recent nervous system shock before doing this.

 

1) Are you willing to reinstate at 6mg/day until your withdrawal symptoms improve?

2) Would you be willing to eliminate your 2am dose, and instead dose 3x per day with a 2mg tablet every 8 hours?

3) If you agree to dry tapering, can you place 10 of your 2mg tablets on one of the scales, and tell me the total weight?

 

Any feedback or corrections are welcome; I'm so glad your husband is willing to help! We're all really grateful to have his support here.  :thumbsup:

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yes to all, except I will have to wait until hubby comes home because he is out for the day working and he is the scale weigher as he is familiar through things hey do at work.  one thing that bothers me, and I have been reading through others posts to try to familarsize my navigation skills.... the past several months, I have been feeling like anxious and can't hardly wait for my nest dose..... and then I read a few times about tolerance withdrawl and interdose withdrawl.  I have had constant nausea, headaches that would not qualify as migraine, stomach ibs issues and still am not having appetite although I eat a little daily.  I am scared because I don 't know whats going on and lay in bed 90% of my day reading and self diagnosing.  now that its all out, and I just learned about tolerance withdrawl, now what? can I still proceed? and hubby will also help with making our own water solution if we know what to buy and where to get it.  God Bless you ALL for your help, and through this terrible ordeal I have met a lot of helpful, VERY UNDERSTANDING and forgiving patient people who are all willing to help.  I will watch for your reply, and get this show on the road asap.  will it mess me up more by being so iraddict in my cuts and then going back to what I started with, because my bottle says or as needed and that is why I always took more at evenings, si never was on a ful 2mg pill during the day, but if I am stil dividing for the next week or 2 I will be on 4 pills all the same dose 1.5.  so that is still a little more then I would have taken but by such a small margine. at least I will be even and my system can catch up.. will I be ok?  all the horror stories I read about ups and downs on the cuts, that is what I have done thinking I was more precise then I was. and still worried if I added trouble and did not know about tolerance withdrawl........  how can I ever ever thank you.  I will wait and weight those pills when he comes home.........  have a good day, I slept good ate a pudding in the middle of the night and today I axe the soda and go to green tea and water.  I am sorry once again for all the aniexty I put out there.  made me realize how a lot of people live a whole life such as that.  I will be more kind, more sensitive as I know you can not tell what one may be going through.  I will watch for my next instruction
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also where do I buy all the stuff I need for a little later for making it in the water.  open to that also.  what I need I will get thank you
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You mention erratic dosing, are you currently taking the same amount at the same time each day and are you still on 6 mgs Lorazepam total?

 

Most members buy their equipment online, typically through Amazon. 

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Thanks for your reply and feedback white river.

 

I'm just making suggestions. Ultimately, you and perhaps your husband, have the responsibility to decide what it is that you feel comfortable implementing, what is working for your body and what is not. There is, unfortunately, no way forward in this journey that isn't experimental. That's why I suggested starting a simple dosage and symptom journal, if you don't have one already, to help you identify patterns in your recovery.

 

I also suggested reinstating, at 6mg/day (or whatever your previous dose was), in whatever way works best for you at this time; going up and down in dose is generally discouraged, but starting over after a failed taper attempt is extremely common and superior in my mind to overwhelming suffering. Once you get tapering again, I think it will be important to take small enough reductions that you can hold out at each current dose until you recover and stabilize there; this is how we make progress tapering.

 

I gave a suggested dosage schedule as I wanted to make things easier for you. If you want to take more of your dose at night, that's pretty easy to do; for example, you could just dose 8am 1mg, 2pm 1mg, 8pm 2mg, 2am 2mg. Any dosage schedule that works for you is perfect.

 

I still suggest eyeing that 2am dose with suspicion. If you're making it work and you don't mind, okay! I hated mine, so I slowly eliminated one of my AM doses, and then moved my 2am to 5am instead. In hindsight, I probably could have just switched to 3x per day from the start once I was stable, but I'm also on a different medicine than you; clonazepam has maybe a 3-4x longer half-life than lorazepam.

 

Yes, it does sound like you may be experiencing tolerance withdrawal. This explains to me why you'd be willing to suffer a 2am dose. Unfortunately it remains unclear to myself and perhaps all of medical science, just how long these medications will remain effective for any specific individual; using them daily beyond maybe a week to 10 days, carries a number of risks including tolerance withdrawal. If tolerance withdrawal has indeed been happening to you, there are to my knowledge limited options, none of which offer regaining the original effectiveness of this medication. The options I know of include updosing, tapering, and a crossover (see following).

 

Some people in tolerance withdrawal switch to a different benzodiazepine. This is called a crossover; it's best done gradually and comes with some significant risk of temporarily increased withdrawal symptoms, and possible other issues if the new medicine isn't well tolerated. This is why buddies on lorazepam may choose to suffer through reducing three or more doses for most of their taper; the half-life is so short, but they'd rather not gamble on a crossover. Other buddies make a crossover to a longer half-life medicine (usually clonazepam or diazepam) and find that after the crossover their progress is easier, symptoms more manageable, and the gamble pays off. Unfortunately, no one can know what is the best option for you going forward; certainly not anyone on BB, to my knowledge.

 

In brief, I think you can still proceed; in fact if you are in tolerance withdrawal the ship has already sailed. You are in withdrawal, and there is a need to taper or crossover; I don't suggest updosing beyond 6mg/day, because that seems to just prolong the taper and may not actually yield effective relief. You may not feel the same as you did previously on 6mg/day, but it should be a noticeable improvement in functionality, and my hope is that this will set you up to start tapering more safely.

 

I'm glad to hear you slept well. It's no surprise to me that you've been anxious, and nothing to apologize for. We all have our train-wreck moments, and I think the lessons we learn from overcoming these are invaluable. The more you can learn about benzos, your body, and tapering in general, the easier this process will be for you.

 

Let's put off discussing liquid for now; you chose dry tapering, so I think it's worth giving it a shot. However, if you want to consider it, liquid tapering would require basic liquid measuring tools (some you may have around your home like a Pyrex measuring cup), a few small jars, a few sizes of syringes, water and alcohol (ideally something very strong like 180 proof). The alcohol is used in very very small amounts, but the stronger the better. Nothing too exotic is required; the things that you don't already have can be found easily on Amazon, or at a home-goods/drug store, when you need them.

Keep us posted!  :smitten:

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