Author Topic: Mutiple Tapers/long haulers/high dosages  (Read 10794 times)

[Buddie]

Re: Mutiple Tapers/long haulers/high dosages
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2021, 12:40:58 am »
[...],

 I vote No to CT! You will be in even worse agony for longer. I understand your desperation because I have thought of CT too but it's an invitation for problems. Especially to CT from a high dose. I know you're afraid. I am afraid too. Just take it one day at a time. That's all you can do. Everything is going to be OK. You have a long road in front of you but you only have to deal with one day at a time. We're here for you. I feel your thought process. I really do. I think CT is a BAD plan. I wish I could get my taper over with too. If you CT and can't take it and reinstate, how hard will that be on your brain? Like I sad; I vote NO to CT or any thoughts of it. You are strong enough to handle your taper. You can do this!

[...]
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Mutiple Tapers/long haulers/high dosages
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2021, 03:16:08 am »
I feel like my RX is safe for now. However, if my pdoc retires or there is a policy change it is not. I can't worry about that, it takes too much out of me.

I have not stabilized on my third dose, which is only .16 lower than dose 1 and 2. It is pure agony. Dose 1 and 2 are definitely withdraw, but not like number 3. It's been not quite 2 weeks. I am going to make it the same as dose 1 and 2 tomorrow, see if it makes any difference.

I am not getting out much, the anxiety has been pretty high. I question if I will stabilize. What happens if I never do? What if in 2/3 weeks from tomorrow at this dose I still feel this bad. I am really scared I can't taper without being in the agony of dose 3. It feels like a paradox.  Input appreciated.

I have seriously been thinking of doing a CT, as this taper is going to take years the way I can barely cut. I know that my dose is too high for that right now. I also would have to have care set up. I really don't want to go CT, last time was a nightmare beyond explaining. I am so frustrated.

[...],
Please, NO!  No C/T's!  It's so dangerous and downright life threatening!  I just logged on briefly and can't type much right now as I just arrived at the beach.  Whatever you do, don't do that! 

I will write more as soon as I can.  We all know how horrific a cold turkey can be.  Just because you're off doesn't mean that suffering will be a shorter duration.  On the contrary, a shock like that to the CNS can take years to recover from.  You know this.  It's a recipe for akathesia which is a fate nobody should take a chance on having.  As I've said numerous times before, the beginning and end of the taper are the absolute worst!  The midpoints get so much better.  You're in the thick of it now.  It WILL get better! 

Hang in there! And again, will write more later!

Hugs!

Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Mutiple Tapers/long haulers/high dosages
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2021, 01:02:43 pm »
I wont Ct for now, I know what it's like. Did that.

This morning dose 1 paradoxed. It is already low, but I feel I have no choice but to cut down every dose to  2.75, the dose 3 quantity. However, that dose has been getting significantly worse, and feels like a gross undermed. I think part of the dose 3 problem is that the cuts of the day catch up with me, and my body goes ballistic.

Floundering with trying to avoid paradoxes, but not be so undermedicated that the wd continues from a dose without relief.

FYI: tried a [...] crossover, it did not go well.

Thanks :smitten:
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Mutiple Tapers/long haulers/high dosages
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2021, 01:23:01 pm »
I wont Ct for now, I know what it's like. Did that.

This morning dose 1 paradoxed. It is already low, but I feel I have no choice but to cut down every dose to  2.75, the dose 3 quantity. However, that dose has been getting significantly worse, and feels like a gross undermed. I think part of the dose 3 problem is that the cuts of the day catch up with me, and my body goes ballistic.

Floundering with trying to avoid paradoxes, but not be so undermedicated that the wd continues from a dose without relief.

FYI: tried a [...] crossover, it did not go well.

Thanks :smitten:

It looks like you're only dosing 3 times per day.  From the years of literature I've scoured, when it comes to Xanax, dosing any less than 4 times per day (every 4 hours) seems to be insufficient.  As you know, Xanax has a ridiculously short 1/2 life and is metabolized very quickly.  This is why Ashton recommended a crossover to [...] in order to taper smoothly (or as smooth as humanly possible).  Unfortunately for me [...] didn't work so I was forced to stick with a direct taper from Xanax.  Trust me, it wasn't by choice.

I also know that once you reach tolerance, no dose will give you "relief" but it's really important to have a constant level in your system.  I know for me that symptoms REALLY rev up if I miss my dose at the 4th hour window  and it goes into the 5th hour! Ugh!  And once you get behind the proverbial eight ball on that, you can't catch up.  Often the day is ruined with symptoms and you just have to grin and bare it until the next day. 

I would strongly suggest dividing your doses and doing 4 equal doses per day.  Granted, it's going to take your body a week or two to adjust to getting a smaller amount in the first dose, but eventually it should catch up.  If you did 2 milligrams 4 times per day and made sure that you took them every 4 hours, you might find yourself more stable. Additionally, it's easier to cut from doses when you have 4 to work with. 

I'd start by taking 2 milligrams every 4 hours which would bring you to your 8 milligram dose (if that's where you are).  Again, don't look for relief in the first few days because your body will need to adjust to getting less first thing in the morning.  If you dose higher than 8 milligrams, put that extra amount into dose 1 and 4 (for in the AM and before bed).  And then when you start cutting more, take it from one of those until you're on 4 equal doses.

I honestly don't see how anyone could taper from Xanax dosing only 3 times per day.  Two years ago when I got down to .75 milligrams, I thought I was low enough to remove a dose and go to a 3 time per day dose and that was the beginning of the nightmare!  I'm not sure I ever truly recovered from that!  It was the absolute worst thing I had done throughout my taper.  I was in a constant state of interdose w/d and didn't know it!  It then took me a year of going back up to 1 milligram to stabilize and resume my taper. 

You really don't have anything to lose, yet a lot to gain, by trying this method. 

Rule of thumb is to keep an even level of meds in your system as possible and with Xanax, that's difficult to accomplish if there is more than 4 hours between doses. 

You speak a lot of your doses often "paradoxing" on you but I have to [...] if they are simply spaced too far apart.  Again, I know from experience that too much time between doses makes every single on of them less effective.  It was like I suddenly was taking a placebo! 

Love,
[...] 
« Last Edit: June 29, 2021, 01:29:57 pm by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Mutiple Tapers/long haulers/high dosages
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2021, 03:01:35 pm »
[...]-
Thanks for your thoughtful and wise input.

I understand the need for a steady influx of medication to the body. However, I take dose 3 (4) hours after dose 2, and it is pure agony.  Worse dose of the day.  I have stretched it out longer to see if it helped, it felt exactly the same no matter when I took it. The past few days it has gotten worse, to the point I am in acute wd, and suffering greatly once I pop my last dose. Would love to just drop the dose, it is so bad, but then the wd becomes too much.

I also took a 2 Mg dose earlier this week to see how that went, in an hour and a half I was in really bad shape.  I am too scared to do that again right now. So, I have been thinking about the 4x a dose day option anyway.

I did do 4 doses a day quite some time ago, for a week. I felt it pretty hard. After a week, I went back to 3 doses so I could get a higher quantity per dose.

Out of my deep respect and appreciation for you, I will put this in my box of options. It's already in there anyway, just at the bottom of the stack because2 Mg was so difficult.

Will see how today goes at a lower dose, and if it's just a mess, it might be my next option to try.

As of now, everything I have read states I wont get relief from the drug. Living in such difficult wd is scaring me, and at my high dose, it's going to take years to taper, especially as my body reacts so strongly to even very small cuts. I don't want to go through this for the next 6 years, then the post taper.

I took dose 2 @ 4 hours, it's paradoxing. Hence, I think I am better with the longer wait time as of now. No benefit from a 4 hour dose.

I am going to have to do something to get this dose down, but  I will pay for it.


 :smitten:


« Last Edit: June 29, 2021, 03:45:06 pm by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Mutiple Tapers/long haulers/high dosages
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2021, 05:05:43 pm »
[...],

 I am sorry you're paradoxing. I had that when I first hit tolerance at 4 mg a day. I took my 2 mg bedtime dose and my heart would start pounding and I would be breathless. It was quite exaggerated. I am not having the paradox with my doses anymore but I don't get any relief from taking them either. It is purely WD prevention only. The brain tries to acclimate to whatever situation it is in. Your brain is in tolerance at your current dose (it sounds like) and it is just taking some time to stabilize. I understand your wanting to keep your doses at their current level to avoid interdose withdrawal. It's a double edged sword. If you spread your doses out more, the doses are smaller and you run the risk of higher interdose withdrawal. If you stay where you are, you may not be dosing frequently enough and have interdose withdrawal. Whatever you decide is best for you, just no CT! That is an invitation for problems. Before I was benzo wise (still working on it) I believed you could get Xanax 'our of your system' (short half life) and then go through a brief WD period and be done with it except your pre-existing conditions. Now, I know different.

I am praying for you! I know you're going to be OK, it just takes time. Have the best Tuesday you can have,

[...]

Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Mutiple Tapers/long haulers/high dosages
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2021, 06:31:55 pm »
Thanks Heart.

It's those horrid paradoxes that get me. Much worse than interdose wd. My med starts petering out in 3 hours, so I have been getting interdose for a long time, I just deal with it.

My current dosage is an undermed, but it still can paradox. The dosage seems irrelevant. Have found several sites where it is listed as a facet of wd. Dose 3 is a nightmare, just getting worse. I am going to  make it the same as the other doses and see if that helps. I really can't handle that dose 3 experience anymore, it is the worst paradox of all, and it always paradoxes.

Thanks for all the support and care.

As I tell my immediate family when they say they don't know how to help me, I say let me vent and get it out of my head. You don't have to agree with anything, I am merely releasing fear. Then encourage me in any tiny way possible that's not a platitude or saying I will be healed, because that is too far away for me to hold onto right now. I have no idea if I will ever feel better as I do this. What I accomplished, and how I hold up under such distress that they notice is much better to hear. It gives me hope that I am getting better at coping, and perhaps the pain is dipping down a bit, I just did not catch it. Validate that this is normal, and it hurts like hell and gets very scary when the anxiety rises.  A day at a time.

What is so helpful here is knowing that my experiences with so many paradoxes and really feeling even the smallest cut. I am not a freak. Coming here and getting everyone support and input also really helps. I appreciate every idea, even if it's not workable for me. :smitten:

Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Mutiple Tapers/long haulers/high dosages
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2021, 08:18:08 pm »
Hi [...],
I am very glad you are not going to CT.  I was taken off xanax suddenly 5 years ago and for close to 6 months was in horrible withdrawal.  I did not know that is what it was at the time, I did not know until I found BB.  After 6 months of holy hell, I was put back on xanax and it took over a year to stabilize. Being at 3.5 - 4 mg a day was horrible too and that is when I started tapering.  I believe that the CT changed my brain so much in a bad way, that tapering is much harder for me!  Some cuts are ok and some are horrible.  I just do what I can do and hope for the best! 

I certainly understand that you do not want to be dealing with a taper for years, I never thought that after 30 months, I would still be on this taper but I am.  I will say this - when I started making cuts, I did ok for a while and then had to start making smaller cuts, it does get easier at times and then revs back up to the hell mode and then gets better again. 

I can not say that I understand what you are going through being at the higher dose that you are but I can say this - You really are an inspiration to me that you have been able to function and do meaningful things to help others like when you were the moderator here and you still are by not giving up even though you sound like you are in a horrible place.  You have helped so many with your wisdom and understanding, I am one of those people!  I wish there was something I could say to help you!  I too take 4 doses a day, sometimes less than 4 hours a part.  I have had to do this since I was put on this poison 5 years ago. 

This last cut I made 11 days ago, I took away from my morning dose so I could make all my doses equal.  The first few days were ok but then I started having interdose WD before the 3rd dose of the day.  It just took a few days but it is getting better, thank goodness.  In October I accidentally did a double cut and it was hell for months for me.  I messed up big time by doing that!  I have had such horrible dizziness, off balance and other things.  I can not believe what it has done to me.  I am just getting so I can make cuts again without feeling really bad every time.  I know that you will be able to make cuts and you will be able to taper faster than you are now.  Just hold on!  It will come and I pray that you feel better than you do now!

You have been through so much and I am praying for you!  Know that you are loved and appreciated here and I agree with [...] - just one day at a time, sometimes 1 minute at a time!

You can do this!  You are strong and you are worthy!

Hugs and prayers!!
Love,
[...]  :oXo: :hug: :smitten:
« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 08:24:30 pm by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Mutiple Tapers/long haulers/high dosages
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2021, 09:06:06 pm »
Thanks Heart.

It's those horrid paradoxes that get me. Much worse than interdose wd. My med starts petering out in 3 hours, so I have been getting interdose for a long time, I just deal with it.

My current dosage is an undermed, but it still can paradox. The dosage seems irrelevant. Have found several sites where it is listed as a facet of wd. Dose 3 is a nightmare, just getting worse. I am going to  make it the same as the other doses and see if that helps. I really can't handle that dose 3 experience anymore, it is the worst paradox of all, and it always paradoxes.

Thanks for all the support and care.

As I tell my immediate family when they say they don't know how to help me, I say let me vent and get it out of my head. You don't have to agree with anything, I am merely releasing fear. Then encourage me in any tiny way possible that's not a platitude or saying I will be healed, because that is too far away for me to hold onto right now. I have no idea if I will ever feel better as I do this. What I accomplished, and how I hold up under such distress that they notice is much better to hear. It gives me hope that I am getting better at coping, and perhaps the pain is dipping down a bit, I just did not catch it. Validate that this is normal, and it hurts like hell and gets very scary when the anxiety rises.  A day at a time.

What is so helpful here is knowing that my experiences with so many paradoxes and really feeling even the smallest cut. I am not a freak. Coming here and getting everyone support and input also really helps. I appreciate every idea, even if it's not workable for me. :smitten:



Hi [...],

 I agree that what you're feeling is 'normal' despite the pain of it. You don't need to be at high doses to paradox. You can 'undermed' and paradox too. There is onbiously some kind of damage (I have experienced it too) with our GABA receptors and Glutamate is being stimulated by the very medicine that is supposed to shut it down. I remember vey well taking 2 mg of Xanax and having it backfire on me. Now I only take .16 mg at a time (every 3 hours) and it does nothing for me besides (hopefully) help me avoid WD symptoms. That's the only reason I take my doses is fear. I want to CT too! and just be DONE with this crap since it is my enemy now but we both now our WD would quadruple and we would be in worse pain.
I am glad your family understands and lets you be wherever you are in your pain. I only have my grown kids and I just avoid talking about it with them as I don't want to worry them. Especially the insomnia. I allow them to assume I am sleeping better than I am.

One day at a time. That's all we can focus on. I hope today is being decent to you and that you are hanging in there OK. I have a video court appearance on Friday and I am waiting to cut until after that is over. I am going to be fine and I am not in trouble but stuff like that makes me anxious very easily.

Hope to hear how you're doing. I care.

[...]
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Mutiple Tapers/long haulers/high dosages
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2021, 11:43:21 pm »
Thanks for all the  :smitten:

[...], omgawwd, I can't imagine accidentally cutting double. I hope you are recovering, even if its slow. Thanks for all the love, we have been comrades for quite some time. Thanks for making me feel good about helping others, you are so lovely.

Heart. Our journey seems the most similar with all of the paradoxing and never getting relief. At least we can support and validate and even cry with each other in this mess. Heart, the med seems to impact us in very similar ways. I literally feel like I am taking poison with each dose. And your right about paradox, I could take half of a dose and it could paradox. Today has been one of those days. At one point I jumped up and told the hub to take a walk with me. We went on a mile roundabout through the forest and along a stream. I had to get some outside distraction.  Holding his soft warm hand as we walked was very good medicine. We have been married 35 years.

[...], I hope you can get your knickers straightened out, I too have a hard time with consistency, I get it. Sometimes my knickers are wrapped around my head and inside out.

[...], your doing great. Slow-mo is often the only way we can do this.

Ultra, good to see you here.

[...]-what can I say, we know each other pretty well. I get strength from you.

Anyone I missed, I am so glad you are here. The more we share, the more we bond, and that bond gives us strength and hope. And it is wonderful to have a safe place to come to when the anxiety is raging and say "I am scared, terrified, I don't want to be this way." Something we can't share outside this forum for the most part, because people don't get it.  We don't always have to be upbeat. No faking it in here. If were in trouble, we need to get the group love to help us carry on moment to moment.

Proud of everyone in  this forum.

I have 4 grown children, I don't talk to them about this at all. I refuse to give up my mom crown. I can pull it off most of the time. I don't want my pain to be what we talk about. So I don't. I just say my medicine is not working if they call me during an episode. My hubber and therapist and BB are my support system.

You are all amazing, brave and positive in an experience that makes positivity a tremendous challenge. We can't do squat about our pain, but we can continue learning to accept, for me acceptance comes in bits and pieces. We can go do things that we know provide benefits when we are able. Like quality exercise, whatever we each like to do to help ourselves, because taking the pills alone wont help us stabilize. We need the "stuff," whatever it is to get strength and calm.

Peace out friends
« Last Edit: July 01, 2021, 12:02:57 am by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.