Dry taper using scales help please

Hi there,

I recently tapered off Valium and held for 10 weeks and my symptoms only got worse. I’m still on Ativan 2.5mg a day. The tablets don’t give me any relief so I assume I’m in tolerance now.

The scales I’m using are the jewellers smart scales from Amazon that can measure 0.001g

The scales are not super accurate varying up to .003g? Doesn’t that sound right (Benzo brain) therefore I’ve decided to taper 0.001g a day for 10 days then hold.

My doses are split into 3.

1.5mg 6am, 0.5mg 2pm, 0.5mg 9.45pm. Each tablet weighs approx .100-.103g

I weigh the full table first. Cut second tablet in half and file.

Im starting with my morning dose eg. Day 1 0.150g/day 2 0.149g etc

I make sure there are no fans on and the scale sits on a stable surface, calibrate twice but still have inaccuracies. I place the tablet on the weighing plate, should I use the little scoopy thing provided to create more accuracy?

Just want to check what % this is. I suffering but I still want to go slow.

Should I initially go slower, eg. Cut and hold for 3 days at 0.149g

Help please.

Have you looked at liquid diazepam? Is that a possibility? That would save you all the hassle of cutting pills, filing pills, weighing pills, etc.

https://www.rxlist.com/diazepam-intensol-drug.htm

Liquid would be easier but...No way! I just came off Valium/diazepam tablets... did not agree with me at all. Ativan - there is no liquid available in Australia only if it’s compounded and after my horrific experience with Valium/Diaz I think I’ll stick to tablets.

Thanks for replying though, I really appreciate it.

Hi Aussiegalrecovery,

Pamster suggested I offer you some help.

Per your post, yes, the 0.001 scales will drift a few thousands (0.003 isn't too bad) from reading to reading. 

At larger doses, ignore it.  It all averages out.  Slightly different readings day to day are NOT a big deal because the half-life of the drug is 12 hours so things just merge. 

Your dose (2.5mg per day) is starting to get troublesome (the smaller the dose, the larger the percent error at 0.003 drift).  Here is some math to show you the error.

I trust when you said the pill weighs about 0.1 grams it is for the 1mg dose pill.  So 1mg pill is 0.1grams on the scale.  Do I have that information correct?

If so, then if your scale is off 0.003 g, the error day to day (when taking 2.5 mg per day) is:

0.003/(2.5mg*0.1g/mg)*100 = 1.2%

If that troubles you, I can teach you a way to mix your drug with Microcrystalline Cellulose to dilute the error to almost nothing.  Here is my website for it:  https://benzodrytapermath.com/  HOWEVER - that method it time consuming and most people do NOT need to do all that work. Best to first try to taper by simple "cut and hold" or dissolve in a liquid.

To your second question, about the speed of the taper.

You have two choices:

(1) Reduce the smallest amount each day or every other day.  Due to your scale, that is 0.001 grams reduction.  At your current dose of 2.5mg, that is a 0.4% reduction. 

(2) Reduce a larger amount but then hold at least 10 days or until your symptoms are tolerable again (whichever time is longer).  At your current dose, I suggest a cut of 0.0125 grams (that is 5% of your 2.5mg dose).

What are you symptoms?  I have more suggestions based on if you have insomnia or panic issues.

Thank you Bob7,

I was hoping you would swing by. Thanks Pamster for sending the maths genius my way.

Please keep in mind that my mind is in full benzo brain mode so please excuse the million silly questions and not getting the maths.

My Ativan tablets are 1mg and weigh 0.100g-0.103g.

I’m not keen to make up my on tablets as you did, my brain wouldn’t cope.

I won’t be transferring to liquid or trying longer acting meds either as others have suggested. I tried to change to Valium and this is when I crashed. I was more functional before

then and was even able to drive and work 2 days a weeks. Not now.

I just started reducing at the lowest rate of 0.001g a day and plan to hold after 10 days of DMT which will bring my total daily dose down to 2.4mg. Is that correct? If so, according to your calculations is this too much? What % is this?

I can’t even work out your calculation that’s how bad my head is at the moment.

If I did cut and hold are you suggesting 2.5mg -0.0125g =2.487mg? Then hold for 10days?

I believe I’m in tolerance withdrawal, I’m non functional, severe panic, agoraphobia, housebound, many Sx ever since the Valium introduction and then taper. I held for 10 weeks when I finished the Valium taper and saw no improvement, if anything I got worse. I just can’t get stable and I’m too nervous to try anything else. I’ve tried a few different long acting benzos and don’t feel well on them either.

If I am in tolerance then I need to get off this safely and at what rate I don’t know.

My plan was to taper 0.001g for 10 days then hold 10 days and see how I go.

What do you make of all all this mess Bob?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Dear Aussie,

First to confirm your math.  If you drop 0.001 each day for 10 days, that is a total drop of 0.01 grams which means you dropped 0.1 mg of drug.  So yes, you would be at 2.4mg.  That represents a 4.2% change which, over 10 days, is very typical - many people taper at the same rate with success.

You asked if you should hold 10 days if following my suggestion.  The answer is you hold at least 10 days or until your symptoms became tolerable.

However, since your symptoms are not tolerable even after 10 weeks, I suggest you try something to snap yourself out of this stuck condition. 

I have found, when your anxiety is locked in, you might need some help for a few weeks using a product called buspar.  I have used it and I know others have too.  For example, when I tapered too fast, I was stuck with symptoms so bad I went to the emergency room.  After many tests, my doctor said my anxiety was currently out of control resulting in chest pains.  He gave me buspar.  I took only in the mornings for only a couple of weeks.  It cooled off my symptoms in 2 or 3 weeks and I was able to return to my taper.  I stopped the buspar after 3 weeks with ZERO side effects.

Can you talk to your doctor about a short term use of buspar?

Thank you for the information.

I have tried other AD and they do not agree with me only resulting in increased anxiety.

Everyone reacts so differently to meds.

I thought maybe the DMT & hold might snap me out of my anxiety.

Apart from trying this method or trying another AD, there really isn’t much I can do except get off Ativan and start healing.

If you think of anything else I can try, please let me know.

Thank you for confirming the %. I might need your maths brain again to calculate % as I get lower, if that’s ok.

Thanks 🤗

I see you’re benzo free. How’s life on the other side?

I will help you with math anytime you need it.

Life on the other side is wonderful without the symptoms.  I have not written a success story because I what to be absolutely sure I am done healing.  I still get better month by month.

Well that’s promising...

I’m so glad you are doing well.

Thank for your the use of your functioning brain! And kind offer to help me with my maths.

Now go write that success story... I think you’re ready...