Looking to switch from liquid DMT to liquid/tablet hybrid DMT

Hi everyone.

On May 3rd I started tapering Ativan from 1mg using liquid DMT but I can’t afford to waste any pills as I do not know the future of my doc and prescriptions.

So for the month I have been mixing the solution in 2ml 80 proof vodka and 198 ml water. I’ve been extracting about 1-1.3ml per day and as of today I’m at 0.87mg.

I’m looking to keep at the same rate until 0.75mg which would be 3 more weeks and then go a bit slower down to 0.5mg.

So I’m thinking I would take 1 0.5mg pill and then need to make a solution for the rest as I taper down with no waste. Any thoughts on the best solution to make? I could also make it for a week at a time etc

Thanks!

Hey Twindubs!

I think a liquid/tablet hybrid will save you medicine, and does not mean that you need to abandon the liquid discard method entirely. Let's check it out!

Pill cutting is the way I get the most out of my liquid/tablet hybrid taper. I do not recommend razor-blade-type pill cutters; they drive me crazy and go dull after three pills. I use an aluminum pill cutter, and I stand the tablet upright between the blades for perfect halves, then I put the halve cut-side-down and eyeball the middle if I need perfect quarters. The style of aluminum splitter I am using is this: [nobbc]https://www.amazon.com/Best-Pill-Splitter-Accurately-Quartering/dp/B08FJDCBWW[/nobbc] but there are a few brands and makers. I personally own the EqualSplitter and love it but it's been out of stock lately on Amazon.

I don't have a good understanding of lorazepam's solubility in ethanol and water. The research data I used to make my long-lasting clonazepam solution doesn't mention lorazepam, and so I'm not able to cite references to help you make a liquid solution. Maybe a first step would be to translate your liquid daily discard method to a liquid/tablet hybrid approach; you'll still waste a little medicine but it won't be nearly as much (less than 1/4 a pill, if you can cut tablets that accurately). I suggest this interim step of doing the liquid/tablet hybrid with a discard technique, but I am willing to discuss a long-lasting lorazepam solution as a possibility as well.

From what I understand your current dose is 0.87mg/day.

1. It sounds like you have 0.5mg tablets. Is that correct?

2. How many doses are you taking per day?

3. Can you accurately cut your tablets into 1/4s?

Thanks slownsteady!

Yes I have 0.5mg pills.

I’m taking 1 dose at night before bed

The pills are small so I’m really only confident cutting them in half.

Also when I dissolve them in 80 proof they aren’t fully dissolved more like a slush still with some suspended particles

Okay!

0.5mg pills sounds great for your current dosage range; I'm wondering if you've tried an aluminum splitter. It's not urgent but you'll save more medicine if you can cut 1/4s; at your current dose you won't be able to save any medicine by switching to liquid/tablet hybrid since you can only cut 1/2s; I'll explain below.

That you're only needing one dose a day is really good news with regards to a liquid/tablet hybrid.

The slurry you're talking about is caused by all the tablet filler; I don't know what it is in your tablets, but mine have lactose, cellulose, and other stuff, some of which will never dissolve in water or alcohol. This is why it's so hard to tell if we've made a solution or a suspension, and why we're stuck having to rely on medical research, a wide margin of error, and even then I think it's best to stir or shake as though it's a suspension (just to be safe).

So the easiest way that I can think of to make a switch today to liquid/tablet hybrid without knowing your measuring tools, is to keep your linear reduction rate the same and at the same dilution.

Here's the approach I would take to get 0.87mg with a liquid/tablet taper using a daily liquid discard, and only being able to cut 0.5mg tablets in half...

I'd suggest taking a tablet and a half as your tablet portion. This would get you to 0.75mg.

For the liquid portion (where you take your reductions), you'd need a measuring vessel that can accurately measure 50ml. If you don't have one and don't want to buy a 50ml graduated cylinder, we can work around this but I'm going to continue this example assuming you can measure 50ml accurately.

I suggest putting half a tablet (0.25mg) in 1ml of your 80 proof at the bottom of your liquid measuring vessel. I'd poke and stir this tablet until it was fully saturated, and then wait 20-30 minutes, or whatever is manageable, stirring occasionally. This is an important step, as you probably know.

Then I'd dilute the alcohol tablet slurry to the 50ml mark on the measuring vessel, stir well and take the usual reduction. It should be the same amount that you're currently withdrawing from 200ml.

Your previous dilution was 1mg/200ml or 0.005mg/ml.

The suggested dilution above is 0.25mg/50ml which is again 0.005mg/ml.

The exact same reduction schedule should apply. Does that make sense?

If you're still at 0.87mg tomorrow, by my suggested approach you'd take 0.75mg in tablets, dissolve 0.25mg in 1ml, then dilute to 50ml, discard 26ml and consume the remaining solution. That should give you 0.87mg in total.

Sadly, since you can't cut quarters, nothing is yet saved by a transition to liquid/tablet hybrid. You're still tossing 0.13mg of medicine and so on, until you've reached 0.75mg/day. Once you're at 0.75mg and below, then you'll start saving 0.25mg/day by the liquid/hybrid approach, because you'll only take 0.5mg in tablet form, and again only be using 0.25mg in 50ml for your liquid portion and begin the reductions again from zero. This creates a savings of 0.25mg/day because you won't be dissolving 1mg/day and discarding over 0.25mg to get your dose.

If you CAN cut your tablets into quarters, please tell me and I think we can work out a more efficient solution. You could be saving 0.125mg/day currently, but you'd need to cut quarters to do this.

Also it would help at that point if you could tell me the measuring equipment you're using; it might be worth using a larger dilution so you can take more accurate reductions, but for now I wanted to suggest something that wouldn't deviate too much from your current approach.

If anything, I was just hoping you'd get a sense for how a liquid/tablet hybrid works, using your current dose and techniques.

What do you think about all this?

Thank you for the well thought out and descripted post.

It makes sense. I should buy an aluminum pill splitter as I don't have anything like that right now. I do shake the solution up quite well before I draw out the amount needed. It's seemed to work so far. I still have some rough symptoms but I don't care I'm battling through them.

One question I have. What if I was to put the discarded solution into another glass and make sure I keep the measurements. Could I then use this say 3 or 4 days down the road as my dose for that day? Does this stuff ever go bad?

Great; let me know if you get a better splitter and can make 1/4s.

I can't say how long your dilution would last, even in the fridge; you're using very little ethanol in the final dilution so there's not much to preserve it, and some tablet contents seem to me to be microbe food (lactose for example). Basically, if you want to try something like this you'd be taking a gamble and not one that I could suggest.

Have you tried using something like this: http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/titration/titrationForm.php ?

If you have success with that site I think it would be much easier to change your liquid concentration, and to smooth out your DMT.

Lastly, battling symptoms only makes sense to me when I'm holding my dose and trying to stabilize. Personally, I prioritize functionality over taper progress (though sometimes I get the two mixed up), and my goal is to minimalism WD symptoms whenever possible; to my understanding WD symptoms are when we've overloaded our neurological recovery capacity. Battling them sounds rough, and I hope you're still fully functional or else slowing down. In my experience and observations around the forum, going faster than the body can heal doesn't speed up the process; I think it only adds suffering and prolongs recovery.

Feel free to write with other questions or ideas! You'll get this! It's an evolution. 

Hey slow, would you mind linking the aluminum cutter you use? Thanks

Yeah I’m doing my best to slow down but with 3 kids under the age of 4 and a full time job I’ve got to keep powering along. I’ve set myself back trying to taper over 6-8 weeks so I’m going to do 8-9 months.

I have pretty good days and then terrible days but I’m trying not to think much about it. I know it’s part of the process. I also exercise quite heavily 4-5 days a week even on days when I don’t sleep so that can help a bit.

I also don’t know when my doc will cut me off and unfortunately in Canada you can’t really doctor shop.

Thanks for the help

Aluminum Pill Splitter:

([nobbc]https://www.amazon.com/EqualSplit-Splitter-Crafted-Medical-Aluminum/dp/B07MH6XTL7)

or

(https://www.amazon.com/Best-Pill-Splitter-Accurately-Quartering/dp/B08FJDCBWW)[/nobbc]

Not sure how Amazon works in Canada but these are the US version that I like; there are plenty of others but the key seems to be two aluminum blades coming together in the middle.

I hear what you're saying about needing to push though; I heard cardio was especially useful for increasing BDNF, the brain fertilizer needed to regrow dendrites and neurons.

Hang in there! Post again if you need more help and PM me with a link if I don't see a post/thread you'd like me to respond to.