Healing, when is it actually occuring?

Can anyone clear up whether you are being healed when you get a window or if the return of any sx's are when your body and mind is healing itself?

I don't think anyone really knows what is going on to be honest.

Honey, unfortunately it is all speculation.  There is no documented evidence for this.  The important thing is the feeling of normalcy, don't you think?

Someone on another site posted this, and I thought I would share it. I'm leaving their name out......

 

 

I have been thinking about this for a while.  Having windows throughout withdrawal has so messed with my head.  Only now do I see windows differently.  I used to get so caught up that I was healed and withdrawal was almost over when I had a window.  We all know how saddening it is when symptoms come flooding back.  I used to pray for the windows to stick, but then I realized I was focusing on the wrong thing.  Its not the windows that affirm healing it when we are at our worst that indicates our recovery. 

 

It's similar to playing musical chairs.  After going round and round, the music stops and there is silence.  one chair is eliminated and the music plays again.  Round and round again, then silence.  Similar to withdrawal.  The window is the silence.  When the symptoms start again, one "chair" or one symptom is left behind.  So many small things I wouldn't notice were gone, but eventually they add up.  I started to realize I couldn't focus on the window.  For some reason our mind gives us these brief moments of well being.  Possibly to let us regain strength for the next round, or to give us hope to see what we are capable to achieve.  But what I began to see was that I had to focus on the worst feeling and how that would change each time it was time to remove another chair.  How did I feel when the symptoms were at their worst.  How bad was bad.

 

I had to get to a point where I could manage when the symptoms were as strong as they could get.  The windows are a welcomed tease, but it's the other horrid days that count.  As time passed for me I continued to get excited that I was almost healed and when I experienced a window I would do more and rejoice.  Some of us even post that we think it is over, only to be beaten down again.  What I would describe as symptoms coming back, was in fact the point that they never left, the music had just stopped for a brief moment.

 

Once I stopped thinking windows was healing, I began to see that withdrawal really is linear.  It's starts bad and stays bad for a while.  Its the base line I kept watching.  The windows seem to let me regroup for the next set of connections that needed to be worked on.  Slowly over time the worst my symptoms were, kept decreasing.  My base line kept getting lower and lower.  The windows came and went, but the level continued to slowly decline.  So every time I had a window and it was time for the symptoms to get to the strongest point, the strongest point wasn't as strong, even if it was only a fraction better.  There weren't huge changes, only microscopic improvements that know one would have counted as anything.  But over time, every little tiny thing accumulated to more and more relief.

 

I had so many symptoms come and go and some that stayed for years, but the feeling of strength and my ability to handle what ever was thrown at me slowly kept getting stronger, until one day the worst was similar to a normal person just feeling ill.  I still feel crappy many days, and some symptoms resurface that I though were long gone, but with all the comings and goings, my base line keeps improving.  I'm still circling around all those chairs, but there keeps getting less and less chairs to go around.  some people start withdrawal with 10 chairs, or 50 chairs or for some of the unfortunate few about 200 chairs like me, lol.

 

So for me all this means is that so enjoy the windows and relax when you have them, but it's the bad days that need to be charted, the level of intensity.  That's the number that I needed to see decrease, not the good days, but the level of intensity of the bad days.  So for now, no matter how good I feel, I know that when the worst comes, it won't go over the level my base line is currently at.  That is what should be rejoiced, not the windows, but how much better you feel when you are revved up to the highest point.  I would conclude that one day I will be down to one chair and when the music stops, I will so kick that chair out of my life forever.

Thanks for that post dj - makes sense to me 

Great post DJ - thanks for finding it and putting it up there for us to read.  It does make sense, and you are right, while the windows feel so wonderful, it is such a dramatic letdown to feel the waves again.  I get so despondent and feel that I am making no progress at all.  I am going to try to do what the post says and check out my wave symptoms and see how many have gone or are lessened.  Thanks again

Hoping2BFree

Hello Dhjk,

 

I saw your question and put together some information that might be helpful. I am the type of person who seeks to know what is happening and why, it brings comfort to me. I hope it does the same for you.

 

"Can anyone clear up whether you are being healed when you get a window or if the return of any sx's are when your body and mind is healing itself?"

 

 

What is causing the symptoms of post benzo recovery?

 

“The Benzo Book, Getting Safely off Tranquilizers” by Jack Hobson- Dupont, 2006

 

 

“The sole problem you are having is that benzodiazepines has interfered with one of your body’s most elemental function, that of attracting GABA to its neural receptors. The results of this condition may well present as a staggering array of withdrawal phenomena.”

 

“All of their exceptional difficulties and often bizarre discontinuation phenomena are a result of the single problem of down-regulation of the neural receptors after exposure to benzodiazepines.”

 

 

Why are Symptoms a Sign of Healing?

 

 

“The Ashton Manual” by Professor Heather Ashton, 2002

 

COURSE OF WITHDRAWAL

 

“During benzodiazepine withdrawal, symptoms characteristically wax and wane, varying in severity and type from day to day, week to week, and even during the course of a day. Some symptoms come and go; others may take their place. There is no need to be discouraged by these wave - like recurrences; the waves become less severe and less frequent as time passes. Typically “Windows” of normality, when you feel positively well for a few hours or days, appear after some weeks; gradually the “Windows” become more frequent and last longer, while any intervening discomfort ebbs away.”

 

“Vulnerability to extra stress may make symptoms last somewhat longer and a severe stress may – temporarily – bring back some symptoms. Whatever your symptoms, it is best not to dwell on them. Symptoms are just symptoms after all and most of them in withdrawal are not signs of illness but signals of recovery. Furthermore, as your mind clears, you can work out more and more effective ways to deal with them so that they become less significant.”

 

I hope this is helpful,

Summer

Thank you Djdonee and Summermeadow for these posts.

 

It does make sense, even though it feels just awful, that the bad physical feelings that we are having are when our body is working on healing and "righting" itself. 

 

I guess the windows, as the two of you describe, are our bodies "taking a break" from healing.

 

This does make sense, though the back and forth WAVES and WINDOWS can really wreak havoc on us emotionally.

 

What a ride!

 

Thank you again for these really good explanations!

 

My best to you Dear Buddies  ,

 

SUNNY DAYS AHEAD 

I personally believe healing starts when the CNS makes the flip and the body stops losing weight and starts to gain weight.  When we refer to 'healing' I like to think of it as the body 'repairing' itself.  All damaged fat, muscle, and nerves cells are actually discarding the body begins to generate new cells.  This happens a lot quicker in the body, but the mind takes about 4 times as long to heal.  We didn't just break an arm or catch a cold. 

 

Again this is all speculation and its pretty hard to find scientific proof for anyones statements

 

Ziggy

Someone on another site posted this, and I thought I would share it. I'm leaving their name out......

 

 

I have been thinking about this for a while.  Having windows throughout withdrawal has so messed with my head.  Only now do I see windows differently.  I used to get so caught up that I was healed and withdrawal was almost over when I had a window.  We all know how saddening it is when symptoms come flooding back.  I used to pray for the windows to stick, but then I realized I was focusing on the wrong thing.  Its not the windows that affirm healing it when we are at our worst that indicates our recovery. 

 

It's similar to playing musical chairs.  After going round and round, the music stops and there is silence.  one chair is eliminated and the music plays again.  Round and round again, then silence.  Similar to withdrawal.  The window is the silence.  When the symptoms start again, one "chair" or one symptom is left behind.  So many small things I wouldn't notice were gone, but eventually they add up.  I started to realize I couldn't focus on the window.  For some reason our mind gives us these brief moments of well being.  Possibly to let us regain strength for the next round, or to give us hope to see what we are capable to achieve.  But what I began to see was that I had to focus on the worst feeling and how that would change each time it was time to remove another chair.  How did I feel when the symptoms were at their worst.  How bad was bad.

 

I had to get to a point where I could manage when the symptoms were as strong as they could get.  The windows are a welcomed tease, but it's the other horrid days that count.  As time passed for me I continued to get excited that I was almost healed and when I experienced a window I would do more and rejoice.  Some of us even post that we think it is over, only to be beaten down again.  What I would describe as symptoms coming back, was in fact the point that they never left, the music had just stopped for a brief moment.

 

Once I stopped thinking windows was healing, I began to see that withdrawal really is linear.  It's starts bad and stays bad for a while.  Its the base line I kept watching.  The windows seem to let me regroup for the next set of connections that needed to be worked on.  Slowly over time the worst my symptoms were, kept decreasing.  My base line kept getting lower and lower.  The windows came and went, but the level continued to slowly decline.  So every time I had a window and it was time for the symptoms to get to the strongest point, the strongest point wasn't as strong, even if it was only a fraction better.  There weren't huge changes, only microscopic improvements that know one would have counted as anything.  But over time, every little tiny thing accumulated to more and more relief.

 

I had so many symptoms come and go and some that stayed for years, but the feeling of strength and my ability to handle what ever was thrown at me slowly kept getting stronger, until one day the worst was similar to a normal person just feeling ill.  I still feel crappy many days, and some symptoms resurface that I though were long gone, but with all the comings and goings, my base line keeps improving.  I'm still circling around all those chairs, but there keeps getting less and less chairs to go around.  some people start withdrawal with 10 chairs, or 50 chairs or for some of the unfortunate few about 200 chairs like me, lol.

 

So for me all this means is that so enjoy the windows and relax when you have them, but it's the bad days that need to be charted, the level of intensity.  That's the number that I needed to see decrease, not the good days, but the level of intensity of the bad days.  So for now, no matter how good I feel, I know that when the worst comes, it won't go over the level my base line is currently at.  That is what should be rejoiced, not the windows, but how much better you feel when you are revved up to the highest point.  I would conclude that one day I will be down to one chair and when the music stops, I will so kick that chair out of my life forever.

 

Hi djdonee,

 

While I appreciate the fact that you left the authors name off of the post you quoted, did you have their permission to put a copy of it here?

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts and articles really needed this today...struggling big time at 12 1/2 months off of Xanax...lots of anxiety....muscle weakness...vertigo...burning....eye pain....nervousness...electricity shocks going through my body and I am so sad. Summer you are always so very helpful doing all of your research, thanks my friend.

Hi All!

 

At almost 12 months off, I am starting to get the mind set that when my sx's are bad I am healing the most.

 

How I came to this concusion, is that after it is really bad, my windows are stronger and longer.

 

Thinking this way also is helping me cope during the bad times.  I just keep reminding myself that healing is taking place in that particular area, and healing and growing new nerves is painful (kinda like physical therapy - no pain, no gain).  This way of thinking tones down the anxiety i get thinking it is permant.   

Hi Believe...where can I purchase this book? Thanks for sharing your thoughts...so kind of you...what you said does make sense...I have had no windows or waves...everyday since the start of this I have had weakness...anxiety...vertigo and much more...I just want some relief...would love some sort of wave or window...just can't escape this at all....you give me some hope...thanks.

Hello Putter,

 

I see you are continuing to have a time of it with all of this. I am happy to hear the information was helpful to you. I have found that taking the mystery out of this to be helpful to me. I do research for myself too and find it comforting. I think you are doing great.

 

I Know you want some relief. I understand. None of this is easy to experience.

 

How are you feeling today?

 

Summer

Summer....you are the kindest person ever!!!!!! I woke up with very high anxiety...shaking legs....balnace way off and still having severe muscle weakness...more in my left arm and hands than right arm. Left arm feels very floppy...right arm feels weak but has way more strength in it than left arem. How are you my friend?

Thank you, you can do what ever you want with it.  I hope it helps.  I have so tried to figure this withdrawal out, but I am always stumped.  Even feeling better, I still get flares.  I hope you are feeling bettter yourself.

 

 

Hey Pamster - permission received, see above. This one was too good to let get by.

Someone on another site posted this, and I thought I would share it. I'm leaving their name out......

 

 

I have been thinking about this for a while.  Having windows throughout withdrawal has so messed with my head.  Only now do I see windows differently.  I used to get so caught up that I was healed and withdrawal was almost over when I had a window.  We all know how saddening it is when symptoms come flooding back.  I used to pray for the windows to stick, but then I realized I was focusing on the wrong thing.  Its not the windows that affirm healing it when we are at our worst that indicates our recovery.  

 

It's similar to playing musical chairs.  After going round and round, the music stops and there is silence.  one chair is eliminated and the music plays again.  Round and round again, then silence.  Similar to withdrawal.  The window is the silence.  When the symptoms start again, one "chair" or one symptom is left behind.  So many small things I wouldn't notice were gone, but eventually they add up.  I started to realize I couldn't focus on the window.  For some reason our mind gives us these brief moments of well being.  Possibly to let us regain strength for the next round, or to give us hope to see what we are capable to achieve.  But what I began to see was that I had to focus on the worst feeling and how that would change each time it was time to remove another chair.  How did I feel when the symptoms were at their worst.  How bad was bad.

 

I had to get to a point where I could manage when the symptoms were as strong as they could get.  The windows are a welcomed tease, but it's the other horrid days that count.  As time passed for me I continued to get excited that I was almost healed and when I experienced a window I would do more and rejoice.  Some of us even post that we think it is over, only to be beaten down again.  What I would describe as symptoms coming back, was in fact the point that they never left, the music had just stopped for a brief moment.

 

Once I stopped thinking windows was healing, I began to see that withdrawal really is linear.  It's starts bad and stays bad for a while.  Its the base line I kept watching.  The windows seem to let me regroup for the next set of connections that needed to be worked on.  Slowly over time the worst my symptoms were, kept decreasing.  My base line kept getting lower and lower.  The windows came and went, but the level continued to slowly decline.  So every time I had a window and it was time for the symptoms to get to the strongest point, the strongest point wasn't as strong, even if it was only a fraction better.  There weren't huge changes, only microscopic improvements that know one would have counted as anything.  But over time, every little tiny thing accumulated to more and more relief.

 

I had so many symptoms come and go and some that stayed for years, but the feeling of strength and my ability to handle what ever was thrown at me slowly kept getting stronger, until one day the worst was similar to a normal person just feeling ill.  I still feel crappy many days, and some symptoms resurface that I though were long gone, but with all the comings and goings, my base line keeps improving.  I'm still circling around all those chairs, but there keeps getting less and less chairs to go around.  some people start withdrawal with 10 chairs, or 50 chairs or for some of the unfortunate few about 200 chairs like me, lol.

 

So for me all this means is that so enjoy the windows and relax when you have them, but it's the bad days that need to be charted, the level of intensity.  That's the number that I needed to see decrease, not the good days, but the level of intensity of the bad days.  So for now, no matter how good I feel, I know that when the worst comes, it won't go over the level my base line is currently at.  That is what should be rejoiced, not the windows, but how much better you feel when you are revved up to the highest point.  I would conclude that one day I will be down to one chair and when the music stops, I will so kick that chair out of my life forever.

 

Hi djdonee,

 

While I appreciate the fact that you left the authors name off of the post you quoted, did you have their permission to put a copy of it here?

 

Being that it didnt come off of someones blog, and doesnt in any way revert it back to them I didn't see it necessary to ask them....after all it's on a public thread for everyone to read anyways. If you want to delete it please delete it. I just thought people might enjoy reading different outlooks.

Thank you, you can do what ever you want with it.  I hope it helps.  I have so tried to figure this withdrawal out, but I am always stumped.  Even feeling better, I still get flares.  I hope you are feeling bettter yourself.

 

 

Hey Pamster - permission received, see above. This one was too good to let get by.

 

Hi Kim,

 

I'm not sure what this is, is it permission from the author?

Someone on another site posted this, and I thought I would share it. I'm leaving their name out......

 

 

I have been thinking about this for a while.  Having windows throughout withdrawal has so messed with my head.  Only now do I see windows differently.  I used to get so caught up that I was healed and withdrawal was almost over when I had a window.  We all know how saddening it is when symptoms come flooding back.  I used to pray for the windows to stick, but then I realized I was focusing on the wrong thing.  Its not the windows that affirm healing it when we are at our worst that indicates our recovery.  

 

It's similar to playing musical chairs.  After going round and round, the music stops and there is silence.  one chair is eliminated and the music plays again.  Round and round again, then silence.  Similar to withdrawal.  The window is the silence.  When the symptoms start again, one "chair" or one symptom is left behind.  So many small things I wouldn't notice were gone, but eventually they add up.  I started to realize I couldn't focus on the window.  For some reason our mind gives us these brief moments of well being.  Possibly to let us regain strength for the next round, or to give us hope to see what we are capable to achieve.  But what I began to see was that I had to focus on the worst feeling and how that would change each time it was time to remove another chair.  How did I feel when the symptoms were at their worst.  How bad was bad.

 

I had to get to a point where I could manage when the symptoms were as strong as they could get.  The windows are a welcomed tease, but it's the other horrid days that count.  As time passed for me I continued to get excited that I was almost healed and when I experienced a window I would do more and rejoice.  Some of us even post that we think it is over, only to be beaten down again.  What I would describe as symptoms coming back, was in fact the point that they never left, the music had just stopped for a brief moment.

 

Once I stopped thinking windows was healing, I began to see that withdrawal really is linear.  It's starts bad and stays bad for a while.  Its the base line I kept watching.  The windows seem to let me regroup for the next set of connections that needed to be worked on.  Slowly over time the worst my symptoms were, kept decreasing.  My base line kept getting lower and lower.  The windows came and went, but the level continued to slowly decline.  So every time I had a window and it was time for the symptoms to get to the strongest point, the strongest point wasn't as strong, even if it was only a fraction better.  There weren't huge changes, only microscopic improvements that know one would have counted as anything.  But over time, every little tiny thing accumulated to more and more relief.

 

I had so many symptoms come and go and some that stayed for years, but the feeling of strength and my ability to handle what ever was thrown at me slowly kept getting stronger, until one day the worst was similar to a normal person just feeling ill.  I still feel crappy many days, and some symptoms resurface that I though were long gone, but with all the comings and goings, my base line keeps improving.  I'm still circling around all those chairs, but there keeps getting less and less chairs to go around.  some people start withdrawal with 10 chairs, or 50 chairs or for some of the unfortunate few about 200 chairs like me, lol.

 

So for me all this means is that so enjoy the windows and relax when you have them, but it's the bad days that need to be charted, the level of intensity.  That's the number that I needed to see decrease, not the good days, but the level of intensity of the bad days.  So for now, no matter how good I feel, I know that when the worst comes, it won't go over the level my base line is currently at.  That is what should be rejoiced, not the windows, but how much better you feel when you are revved up to the highest point.  I would conclude that one day I will be down to one chair and when the music stops, I will so kick that chair out of my life forever.

 

Hi djdonee,

 

While I appreciate the fact that you left the authors name off of the post you quoted, did you have their permission to put a copy of it here?

 

Being that it didnt come off of someones blog, and doesnt in any way revert it back to them I didn't see it necessary to ask them....after all it's on a public thread for everyone to read anyways. If you want to delete it please delete it. I just thought people might enjoy reading different outlooks.

 

Hi,

 

You indicated these comments had been posted at another forum; depending upon the registration agreement there, the content of posts might belong to the original poster but ownership transferred to the forum in some kind of co-ownership.

 

Unless there is explicit permission/license by the author (or owner if ownership is transferred), then we can only copy (republish) material in a manner consistent with "fair use" principles. 

 

Copyright issues aside, I felt it was important to obtain the authors permission before taking their comments from one forum and placing them on another. 

 

Pam

 

 

Thanks Kimba and DJDonee.....that was so very thoughtful of you both to take the time to do research and post these things on here....very much appreciated...anytime we can lift each others spirits that is a BLESSING!!!!!!!! I always feel that the more positive we read the healthy are minds will feel....may healing be happening each and everyday with you both

Thanks Kimba and DJDonee.....that was so very thoughtful of you both to take the time to do research and post these things on here....very much appreciated...anytime we can lift each others spirits that is a BLESSING!!!!!!!! I always feel that the more positive we read the healthy are minds will feel....may healing be happening each and everyday with you both

 

Thanks Putter, same to you! http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-hug008.gif

So could this be why the lower I get in my taper the more symptoms I get and the worse all my other symptoms become..? I feel like I am literally losing my mind body n soul....

So could this be why the lower I get in my taper the more symptoms I get and the worse all my other symptoms become..? I feel like I am literally losing my mind body n soul....

 

That is just your body trying to adjust to living in the drug free environment. Someone once told me: "You are not getting worse, you are just having more symptoms." That makes good sense.

 

In Baylissa Frederick's book "Benzo-wise"  she says when she was feeling bad, she would say: "So this is what it feels like to heal".  I use that from time to time, it helps. 

Well I'm still tapering so I can't heal yet... I'm at 2.30 Valium and the worst I've ever been...  I Cut the other night by .30 and feeling it.. D/r is the worst feels like hallucinations.. Paranoia is bad as well.