Jump to content

Take care when quoting stats


[c0...]

Recommended Posts

[c0...]

As I search through the forum for various things, I come across some posts from people saying it takes this or that amount of time to recover based on their experience here. Sometimes the times listed are super long, scaring those of us early on, as it feels impossible.

 

I want to say a few things. There is a lot of data on this that is a little more empiric, though it is always hard to say. We here at BB are the worst cases. There are people who do not have PAWs, people who recover quickly, and people who never come back.

 

Looking at the cases here in the short term group, I found some interesting stats. This is based on half of the success stories - I've been through 3/4 now and the stats have remained constant I just haven't changed the exact numbers so I am going to paste the ones I have. I also posted a study a while back with similar stats interestingly.

 

I think we have to also consider maybe stages of success. Like maybe stage 1 is being functional - able to work, participate in family activities and generally function most of the time with some symptoms remaining (perhaps some morning anxiety, skin burning, etc). Maybe stage 2 is when we have more days than not of no symptoms, and so on (these may not be the right stages, but it would be great for us to think about this as a group because it also helps when comparing and setting up expectations).

 

Anyway, I think saying, oh, if you CT it will take 2-3 years or oh, if you were on more than 5 years it will take 2-3 years is just not true. It varies a lot and likely depends on your health status, your daily life, your genetics, and a bunch of other things.

 

Here's my short term user stats based on success stories:

 

Stats: 16 (25%) recovered in 6 months or less, an additional 30 (47% - total 73%) recover in one year.

 

Of those who recovered in 6 months or less, 5 (31%) were on 3 months or more, 4 CT (25%), 4 rapid taper (25%).

 

Of those who recovered 6-12 months, 9 CT (30%), 10 rapid taper (33%), 3 fast taper (10%), 14 used more than 3 months (47%).

 

An additional 5 (8%) recovered by 18 months. 1 used multiple benzos with a complicated medical history, 2 much improved in less than a year.

 

The remaining 13 (21%) that took over 2 years to recover, 5 were high dose / multi benzo users, 4 felt better in less than a year, 2 felt better in 14 months, and 3 had unclear histories.

 

Overall, almost 3/4 of short-term users healed within a year regardless of cold turkey, rapid taper or fast taper. Those who didn’t declare being healed often felt better in a year. Those that were protracted were more likely to have used high doses, multiple benzos or have complicated medical issues, but some in the not protracted group had this too and still recovered quickly. Overall, as a short-term user, you are likely to feel a lot better by one year out, many will feel better sooner, and your method of discontinuing will not likely impair healing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow! Great work fluffer. Sounds encouraging. Hopefully we will recover sooner rather than later. I have always been in great health and take very good care of myself the only mistake I made was to take Xanax. The thing is with me I have taken Xanax over the years off and on and stopped and started it a .25 at times for sleep, with no problems. It was only last year when I took it at a .5 then it really flared me up . I couldn't take it more than a few weeks before I started severely reacting to it. Many regrets for that. Thank you. Hugs!

 

LiveLife

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OMG..LOL.

I cannot believe you did a meta analysis of stats based on time projections for healing, based on specific variables. This made me laugh out loud. :smitten:

 

You're a gem girl. Using your time for good, using science to bring hope to others (and yourself as well that not all is lost...).

 

I used benzo for over a year, complicated with other psyche meds and stupid ect. I'm blessed to be as functional as I am, but I do realize I have a complicated healing compared to some, and therefore have surrendered to the fact that this may take a little bit.

 

So I make the best of the circumstance I'm in. Its way better than where I was at at my worst!

 

hugs to you Fluffer!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, Fluffer, what you bring to your BB friends is immeasurable and so appreciated.  There will be some sighs of relief felt round Benzoland tonight, as you have presented some well researched stats sure to assure and reassure.  Blessings, my friend :smitten:

 

GG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8).

      Nice work Fluffer.  Yikes!!  Hopefully my chances are better!!  was on

  a low dose the whole time .125 - .25. Prn. But many years 27. I think I was in withdrawal

Many years without realizing it. I would chip some off (k) Fromm the pill. Was always sick. Stomach issues.  Zoloft for years (off). I’m very healthy before this w/d. 66 years active. But this threw me

For a loop.  Anyway thanks for your work  doc  ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8)

      Fluff!  So grateful, thx.  Here’s a bouquet 💐 

 

      And y’all. Hope your recovery is SOON.  :-*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fluffer,

 

Who knows maybe I was kindled those years off and on of the Xanax. Oh boy another thing to concern myself with. You made a lot of good points. But you always do. Appreciate your Insight. I like the way you think. I love to analyze things too but I've just been too sick to do it. This anxiety keeps me from being able to read that much and focus it seems to aggravate the anxiety, when I do. Thanks again!

 

LiveLife

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sunshine75, thank you!!! I did it!!! I didn't even know I could.  :laugh:

 

LiveLife, if I remember from Ashton, it doesn't necessarily mean we won't recover or will take longer, it just means it might be more severe. I am finding this to be true, but I still know we will get there. I have to believe it. But I am always optimistic and enthusiastic at night. In the morning I will be crying rivers and begging for someone to tell me it's going to be ok because I will be terrified again. Even though I know it, somehow it doesn't stop it from being true. This process is so hard. Hang in there.

 

I hope you all enjoy my posts just a little bit more now that you get to see Matt Damon (thanks again sunshine!)  :smitten:

 

I love it.  Quote and all! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fluffer, can’t wait for the stats on those of us who are in the one year plus group!  Oh, and BTW, my nice evening and night has turned into another benzo flu morning.....beam me up, Matt Damon, please :smitten:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I search through the forum for various things, I come across some posts from people saying it takes this or that amount of time to recover based on their experience here. Sometimes the times listed are super long, scaring those of us early on, as it feels impossible.

 

I want to say a few things. There is a lot of data on this that is a little more empiric, though it is always hard to say. We here at BB are the worst cases. There are people who do not have PAWs, people who recover quickly, and people who never come back.

 

Looking at the cases here in the short term group, I found some interesting stats. This is based on half of the success stories - I've been through 3/4 now and the stats have remained constant I just haven't changed the exact numbers so I am going to paste the ones I have. I also posted a study a while back with similar stats interestingly.

 

I think we have to also consider maybe stages of success. Like maybe stage 1 is being functional - able to work, participate in family activities and generally function most of the time with some symptoms remaining (perhaps some morning anxiety, skin burning, etc). Maybe stage 2 is when we have more days than not of no symptoms, and so on (these may not be the right stages, but it would be great for us to think about this as a group because it also helps when comparing and setting up expectations).

 

Anyway, I think saying, oh, if you CT it will take 2-3 years or oh, if you were on more than 5 years it will take 2-3 years is just not true. It varies a lot and likely depends on your health status, your daily life, your genetics, and a bunch of other things.

 

Here's my short term user stats based on success stories:

 

Stats: 16 (25%) recovered in 6 months or less, an additional 30 (47% - total 73%) recover in one year.

 

Of those who recovered in 6 months or less, 5 (31%) were on 3 months or more, 4 CT (25%), 4 rapid taper (25%).

 

Of those who recovered 6-12 months, 9 CT (30%), 10 rapid taper (33%), 3 fast taper (10%), 14 used more than 3 months (47%).

 

An additional 5 (8%) recovered by 18 months. 1 used multiple benzos with a complicated medical history, 2 much improved in less than a year.

 

The remaining 13 (21%) that took over 2 years to recover, 5 were high dose / multi benzo users, 4 felt better in less than a year, 2 felt better in 14 months, and 3 had unclear histories.

 

Overall, almost 3/4 of short-term users healed within a year regardless of cold turkey, rapid taper or fast taper. Those who didn’t declare being healed often felt better in a year. Those that were protracted were more likely to have used high doses, multiple benzos or have complicated medical issues, but some in the not protracted group had this too and still recovered quickly. Overall, as a short-term user, you are likely to feel a lot better by one year out, many will feel better sooner, and your method of discontinuing will not likely impair healing.

 

Did you factor in that everyone has a different version of what healed is to them?  Like those people who were healed within a year, did they have to follow a low histamine, anti inflammatory diet to remain "healed"?  I am just curious because to me that matters.  I don't consider my self healed until I can live exactly how I was living before I took my first Ativan.  I've read success stores where people claim to be healed, but still can not tolerate coffee or sugar, but as long as they stay away from those sources they have no issues.  I would be interested on those statistics.  Healing in in the eye of the beholder.........  what is healed to one may not be for another, that's something to factor in as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is great work Fluffer!  You are a gem indeed! Thank you!  I am one of those long timers - 12 years....

 

I feel lucky because most of the time I am mostly functional but without warning I can be incapacitated.  Right now on day 2 of nerve pain flares every 3 hours like clockwork.  WTH?!  How can my CNS send out pain signals every 3 hours?  What physiological process could explain that?  It's not blood sugar related - happens whether I eat or not.  Lasts 1 hour, fades and goes away then back again.  Just hoping tomorrow is different!!

 

Gonna have to science the shit out of this for sure.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is your definition of short term user, I couldn't find it in your first post, my apologies if I missed it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paxia, this is a great point! I tried to factor in everything that I could. I excluded cases where the history was unclear (like they said I am healed 6 years later after posting 5 years ago and seeming much better) or when they posted really soon without complete healing (like they said I am much better at 2 months but still have panic attacks).

 

I will likely revisit the data again, and am collecting all kinds of stats. There are lots of clues here that I think might help people in the future not to be as protracted, at least that is my hope.

 

How are you doing?

 

:hug:

 

GAHHHHH..... I really thought I replied to this.  I am doing okay.  I am here.  This muscle, nerve, and joint pain is the worst though!  How are you doing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's AMAZING that you are feeling well!!!!  My anxiety is pretty much all gone as well,  I'm kind of just stuck with this pain, it's been a month straight!  And I still wake up every morning with a new swollen joint and something else going *POP*  ::)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's AMAZING that you are feeling well!!!!  My anxiety is pretty much all gone as well,  I'm kind of just stuck with this pain, it's been a month straight!  And I still wake up every morning with a new swollen joint and something else going *POP*  ::)

 

Hi Paxia - I'm sorry you are suffering with lasting pain.  That is my most bothersome symptom as well.  My waves are essentially fibromyalgia-like nerve pains flares with accompanying fatigue and cog fog.  The move around alot.  I noticed you also did a stint with gabapentin and baclofen?  I was prescribed them too for the "sciatica" I presented with at the Dr.  The baclofen was short term (about 2-3 weeks) and 4 months on the gabapentin.  I questioned whether I could take the gabapentin with the Ambien and my Dr thought it would be fine.  Well when I went to taper of the gabapentin that is when my all-over body nerve pain started.  Then worse when I tapered off Ambien. 

 

I guess I just wanted to reach out and say "I feel ya".  I am hopeful that someday the pain is a long gone bad memory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pamster, you are right! I mean, you couldn't read my mind?  ;)

 

Not everyone gave an exact number (some said "a couple of months). I defined short term as one year or less. If someone didn't specify, they almost always said "a few months". I did not include the taper in months on, though except for one or two cases, usage was still less than a year even with taper.

 

The longest use was 10 months, not including taper. However, 2 in the 6-12 month recovery group did 13 months tapers and one in the 12-18 month group did a 2.5 year taper, so perhaps should have been excluded.

 

All others had total benzo use of less than a year, even with taper.

 

The summary is that if you recovered in 6 months or less you were more likely to have taken benzos for a month or less and if you are protracted your are more likely to have taken them more than 6 months, but there isn't a hard and fast rule.

 

The stats below are based off of the newest numbers that include the first 23 pages of success stories starting with the newest (the old numbers that I posted before included the first 15 pages as I hadn't yet updated the calculations but are surprisingly almost the same - the numbers vary very little over time).

 

Here are the stats:

 

Of those recovered in 6 months or less (27 people):

One month or less: 10 (37%)

1.1 - 3 months: 6 (22%)

3.1 - 6: 6 (22%)

6.1+: 3 (longest 8 months) (11%)

Unspecified: 2 (7%)

 

Of those recovered in 6.1 - 12 months (48 people):

One month or less: 6 (13%)

1.1 - 3 months: 14 (29%)

3.1 - 6: 11 (23%)

6.1+: 4 (longest 8 months) (8%)

Unspecified: 13 (27%)

 

Of those recovered in 12-18 months (11 people)

One month or less: 1 (9%)

1.1 - 3 months: 2 (18%)

3.1 - 6 months: 5 (45%)

6+:  (longest 10 0 months) 1 (9%)

Unspecified: 2 (18%)

 

Of those recovered in 18+ months (18 people)

One month or less: 2 (11%)

1.1 - 3 months: 8 (44%)

3.1 - 6 months: 2 (11%)

6.1 - 12 months: 3 (17%)

Unspecified: 3 (17%)

 

Hey fluffer. 

 

This information gives all of us such hope. I was thinking about this again this morning.  I even used your information to create a graph of my own timeline.  It tracks with the data you present.  According to the data I should be well on my way to being fully healed in just a few more months.

 

I’ve been wondering about the dataset you are using.  I believe it is the ‘success stories’ right?  So it doesnt include every one that healed without incident - because they never came here.  I think that is a pretty big population.  It may also not include those who had minor withdrawals - my first time on benzos my withdrawals were so minor I didn’t associate them with benzo’s.  It also doesnt include those that healed and didnt come back to write a success story.  It also may not include those that may not have healed and didnt come back.  I wonder about how including all of these other populations would change the data and conclusions.  I wonder if we included these folks would the story be even more bright.

 

The data does track with the study done on benzosupport.org so maybe that helps to confirm conclusions.

 

Do you have any thoughts on how we should draw conclusions?  Is the sample size good enough?  Am I just overthinking this because I had a big ole cup of coffee?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JBen021, yes, there are definitely limitations. Benzobuddies are the worst of the worst, so if you get hope from this, you will likely feel even better knowing the complete data.

 

That said, there are some disturbing trends that I have collected outside the success story section. I am not sharing them for now, because I don't think people need negativity without something actionable to counter it. I don't know that most would take action even with the data, but it is not fair to present it without some options.

 

I strongly think that the "do nothing, wait forever and hope for magical healing" results in a significant number of failures - more than there should be. It could be as high as 60-80%. The success stories are a tiny fraction of the registered users here. Many do disappear, and I hope that they are healed, but other surveys suggest that many likely are not.

 

I think we need to look closer at the research that has been done, and start early interventions to induce brain healing. Long soul crushing tapers, horrid cold turkey withdrawals, endless suffering - this needs to end. It will take some monumental effort to do to change what has been ingrained for 20+ years, but is greatly needed.

 

I am still terrified that I might not recover. I had the most horrific withdrawal and was completely non-functional for 6 months. I have to keep reading things like SSR74's success story who had a similar experience and recovered to remind myself that I can live a normal life again. I try to remember that being protracted as a short-term user, even if kindled, is uncommon because our minds tend to hold on to those stories in terror.

 

If I had known what I know now, I would have done things very differently.

 

I'm so glad that you are pursuing these datasets, fluffernutter.  My fear, however, still lies exactly in the knowledge that Benzobuddies are the worst of the worst, that the drug turned on me very quickly (by the 9th day after on off use) and that once I finally realized what was happening and did get somewhat stable on a dose, the rapid withdrawal I was put on made things so much more worse.  My poor brain.  It's these personal factors along with following the breadcrumbs of BBs who are still members, who still log in, who haven't left a message in a while, but who noted poor improvements even after long periods of time that worries me most.  These outliers are my worry because they are absent from this dataset.  I can read all the success stories I want, but when I follow those other BBs, it begins to cancel out some of the hope.  It seems unrealistic to only read those success stories.  I understand the idea that you must surround yourself with positivity, but it's not realistic or fair to ignore a whole subset just to keep up a rosy disposition.  I also know that what I am feeling and thinking is par for the course.  So, what is the answer then if not wait?  What is my threshold?  What are my options?  It sure the hell will never be take a benzo.  The sitting and waiting makes me feel like a sitting duck, exposed and vulnerable, but the not knowing what else to do is just as terrifying. 

 

Obviously I am saying these things again during a time when I am not in a good place, where the tentacles of this whatever the hell it is that is happening in my body/brain have gripped tighter. 

 

I'm with you, if only I had known more then...

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...