Zolpidem/ambien to valium

Hi everyone

 

Is this a good crossover to make before tapering? The reason I’m wondering about it is that I’ve kept my zolpidem dose stable for the past year, and have suddenly gone from 10 hours sleep a night to 2 hours and am in a complete state. I guess I’ve reached tolerance? Would crossing to Valium before tapering help with this?

 

Thanks

 

Katie

I know Professor Ashton suggested switching to a longer acting benzo but to tell you the truth, I'm not a fan of this because in my experience, benzo's are a lot more difficult to recover from the z-drugs, except for Zopiclone. 

 

I would suggest tapering your Ambien by about 10% every couple of weeks and be done with it.  I quit it cold turkey and couldn't sleep for a few days and when I finally got some the nightmares were horrible but I felt better overall because the inner trembling, anxiety and dark thoughts were gone. 

Thanks for your help. The problem is that I’ve been on zolpidem for 3 years, and I think I’ve reached tolerance. After normally getting 10 hours sleep a night, I’ve suddenly only been able to get 2 hours a night for the last 2 weeks at the same dose. This is a situation that can’t go on for me as I’m ill with other issues, and the lack of sleep is making me worse and worse... But I get what you’re saying about benzos - might be like diving into an even worse nightmare...

If you've reached tolerance the only solution is to reduce your dose and free yourself from the drug.  If you increase it, you'll just hit tolerance again, believe me I've been there, I was taking massive quantities and getting 2 hours of sleep maximum so the only way out was off.  The interdose withdrawal during the day was horrible, it's such a nasty drug.

 

I can see you have other health issues and I know it's scary to think about not sleeping but this is the only way we know to do this, drugs don't work, supplements don't work, and worrying about it only makes it worse so I hope you can find the strength to do this. 

Thank you for that, pamster. I was hoping maybe that transferring to Valium would mean the sleep was better and interdose withdrawal not so bad... is that not the case? Also, if you’re in a constant state of withdrawal/extreme anxiety/lack of sleep, is it possible for your receptors and nervous system to heal in that state?

 

Yes, I’m already housebound after an illness and head injury and living alone, so this is going to be a tough one...

Valium is known for it's sedation and depression but I'm told if you stick with it these lessen but yes, it would take care of the interdose withdrawal. 

 

We'll be happy to help you make the switch to Valium if this is what you want to do.    10 mgs of Ambien is roughly equivalent to 5 mgs Valium according to the Ashton manual.  You'll want to cross over in a couple of weeks time. The Ashton Manual  Do you have a Dr willing to prescribe Valium?

 

As for healing, in my opinion the only things that will keep you from healing is alcohol and more benzo's. Stress will make your symptoms worse but it doesn't slow down your healing, the body knows what to do and it can do it even under the worst of conditions.

 

 

Thanks so much pamster. Ah, sedation and depression... I don’t know whether I’m risking too much here... The problem is that I’m already very sick with long covid, plus the fallout from a head injury - so maybe my body couldn’t take a new drug. But then again it’s not coping with no sleep. I don’t even have a doctor willing to prescribe, I was just going to try and find one... That’s good news that the body being stressed doesn’t prevent healing, anyway. Thanks so much again

As I said, I’m with Pam on this. And as u have noticed, not many people have used this method. X

Guys, please help. I’m in a state of extreme withdrawal. I’m in full-on panic 24 hours a day, literally extreme terror every second. My skin is crawling, I can’t sit still, I’m getting paranoid and dark thoughts. It’s getting worse day by day and it can’t go on. I think this must be “tolerance withdrawal” as opposed to just tolerance. All I’ve done is stay on the same dose - but I’m feeling as if I’ve made a huge cut or gone cold turkey. What do I do?

Kt - I had some pretty severe anxiety while on the Ambien.  I too had hit tolerance withdrawal and did not know anything about how these drugs could be the cause.  I thought I was going crazy.  Once my Dr. explained it to me, I decided to drop dose the very next day.  I immediately felt relief from the severe anxiety I was having.  Of course I had many other symptoms to deal with but never regretted the taper.

 

I hope you feel better soon.

Thanks deanna. It’s just that when I was tapering before, a year or so ago, before I hit tolerance, every tiny cut I made would make things much worse - I’m sure that that’s what would happen to me again?

Thanks deanna. I’m not sure as in the past when I’ve been tapering, every cut has made me feel much worse and created these sorts of symptoms... I think my body is so sensitive

Guys, please help. I’m in a state of extreme withdrawal. I’m in full-on panic 24 hours a day, literally extreme terror every second. My skin is crawling, I can’t sit still, I’m getting paranoid and dark thoughts. It’s getting worse day by day and it can’t go on. I think this must be “tolerance withdrawal” as opposed to just tolerance. All I’ve done is stay on the same dose - but I’m feeling as if I’ve made a huge cut or gone cold turkey. What do I do?

 

It would help us know where you are in your journey if you put your medication history and present dose in your signature. Add your history/signature 

 

I was the same way on Ambien but once I quit it, I felt better within days, I didn't sleep much but the dark thoughts, agitation and inner trembling disappeared.

Thanks pamster I will add my signature... I thought it was dangerous to cold turkey though? And could lead to long-term withdrawal symptoms?

I would never advocate for a cold turkey withdrawal, but my circumstances are different, I have addiction tendencies so for me, it's the only way I can quit a substance, thankfully I no longer take anything I need to quit. 

 

I didn't know Klonopin had to be tapered when I quit it and I probably suffered more in the beginning than those who taper but I don't think my recovery took any longer than anyone else.

 

Ambien for me was a much easier drug to quit, I didn't get withdrawal symptoms and I felt better within days but of course, we're all different and other members who have tried this haven't been as lucky.

 

I guess what I'm saying to you is that I believe you're going to feel so much better when you get the Ambien out of your life, I sure did.  If tiny cuts to the dose were especially difficult the last time, maybe make bigger ones this time, get it gone quicker.  I don't know, just thinking out loud. 

 

 

I'll just add to what Pamster posted.  When I realized it was the drug that was causing my issues I decided I wanted to taper quickly.  My GP suggested going from 10mg to 7.5mg to start.  I knew I could drop down to 5mg right away because there were some nights that I took only 5mg vs some nights I would take a second dose for a total of 10mg.  And sure enough I felt better the very next day.  I can't promise the same for you, but if you drop 10% and see what happens you'll be making a great start and you'll be psychologically more ready to get going with this.

 

Remember Ambien has a VERY short half like of like 2.5hrs.  Every day you are going through complete withdrawal at the 15 hour mark.

 

I wish you strength for this journey - you will be so much better off the drug.

Thank you guys for all your help and wise words. Seeing as I’m really at breaking point and on the verge of asking for a Valium taper, maybe a compromise would be to use supplements instead to make this a little easier - the lesser of two evils? I know they’re not supposed to be good for the receptors but seeing as I’m literally about to break, maybe they would do less harm than crossing to Valium? I’m thinking of things like lemon balm, Theanine, Niacinamide, CBD... what do you reckon? They can’t be as bad as crossing to Valium and might be a compromise? As things are, this level of withdrawal is intolerable - I’m almost at the hospital with the symptoms...

 

Deanna - I’ve always taken exactly the same amount each night and only ever tapered down by 0.001g on my scale at a time. And even that was sometimes too fast so I’m just not sure that bigger cuts would work for me

Thank you all for your kindness. I’m sorry my posts are a bit blunt at the moment as I’m in such a stressed state. But I’m so grateful for your help and suggestions :-)

I can't help you with supplements, I don't have any experience but you might ask for input on the Alternative Therapies & Supplements board.  I do know they aren't a substitute for benzo's and z-drugs so the relief might not be what you're hoping for.

Hi pamster

 

I know that you’ve advised that a crossover is probably not a good idea, but I was wondering whether you could help me work out what a zolpidem to Valium taper would look like, just so I Know the options... I spoke to a helpline in the UK and they said you can just switch straight over in one night - just replace the zolp with the valium?! Surely that can’t be right?! What is the usual time length for crossing over? I’m on 4.8mg zolpidem...

 

Katie

https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm#s12

 

This is an example of a z-drug cross to Valium, Professor Ashton advocated doing them in stages so that's what I'd recommend.

Thanks for your help, pamster. It looks from that that she suggests only a week of splitting between the two, and then moving directly to Valium - is that right?

 

 

It looks that way to me too, I hope if you do this you get some relief. 

Thank you so much.

 

It’s so strange that it’s only a week, though. Just out of interest, how are crossovers from other benzos to Valium done? I’ve read that’s more like 4 weeks? Do you replace a quarter the first week, half the next week etc? It seems that the Ashton guidelines even for tapering are faster than most people on this forum go?...

Crossovers depend on dose, so a high dose means longer to cross.  I think her crossovers were fairly consistent but many members will taper slower than she had her patients tapering, hers schedules are guidelines, everyone should follow their body's cues, we're all so different. https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm