Clonazepam 0.5 only

Ive had to go back to 0.5 clon  after awful diaz .

 

I only take 0.5 night. I just cant go back to diaz. Even so i expect if i taper clon the same symptoms could arise .

 

So i was told get scales. Here uk not sure which are best from Amazon.uk..cant afford a lot.

 

But i cant have any alcohol sugar so if i chose liquid id have to dissolve tablet in warm water but how nany mls woukd i draw off. I have a 1ml syringe 0.1 0.2 0.3 etc up to 1ml. How woild i know how much to draw off. This whole process of titrating tapering has left me totalky confused .a goid few people have helped me and explained re liquid mirtaz taper i get that and zopickone get that. I just cant go back to diaz and my gp tokd me to go bacj on 0.5 clon. The urges leg thrashing food reactiins horrendous burning all inside have gone. Couldnt take it ao im back to square one and feel like a failure abd too scared

Water (only) titrations aren't ideal.  They're more prone to error than probably any other approach (other than simply eye-balling pill fragments).

 

But if that's the way you want to go...

 

I would just use room temperature water.

 

I'd dissolve my 0.5 mg pill in 5 ml of water.  You could do this, for example, in a small 'shot' glass or a small vial.  Mix well.  Don't let it settle.  Quickly withdraw the desired amount using a 5 ml syringe and ingest.  5 ml should equal 0.5 mg.  4.5 ml should equal 0.45 mg.  4.0 ml should equal 0.40 mg, etcetera.  In reality, the doses will probably be a little less as some of the drug/pill will stick to the sides of the vial. 

 

There was a study on this approach which shows its limitations:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3468096/pdf/i1551-6776-10-1-36.pdf

Wow. I did not know that there was a water method studied for lorazepam, and the results from the study appear to verify that it's not a reliable approach. But, as badsocref said, if you want to do it, it can be done!

 

I think you said you have a 1ml syringe. So I suspect you'd be doing reductions by pulling with the syringe a discard amount; mixing 0.5mg in 5ml, stirring or shaking well, then quickly drawing your reduction from the center of the liquid solution. If you remove 0.1ml to discard, you'll have maybe 0.49mg left in the larger liquid body. If you remove 0.2ml, then 0.48mg might remain; etc.

 

If you do try this approach, I suggest the reduction method described above, and after drinking the remainder of the liquid as your dose, add water to the empty container (shot glass was a good idea or something similarly small) and stir and drink that water too to get any medicine that was stuck to the sides.

 

Badsocref, is there any reason not to go with a larger volume of water? I know that clonazepam does dissolve to some degree in water, so the more water the more dissolution potential. Basten would need to source larger syringes for reductions or use a graduated cylinder and a dropper or something. Is there any reason to stay with such a small water amount as 5ml? That's only a teaspoon of water...

 

According to these results...

 

Solubility of Lamotrigine, Diazepam, and Clonazepam in Ethanol + Water Mixtures at 298.15 K. Journal of Chemical and Engineering Data, 2008, Washington D.C.: American Chemical Society, pp. 1107-1109. Accessed online at:

https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc674044/m2/1/high_res_d/Acree%20Pub-479.pdf

 

... 32mg of clonazepam can dissolve in 1 liter of distilled water. If my math is correct, if Basten used at least 15ml of water, then 0.5mg could potentially dissolve in there. If Basten used 30ml or more per 0.5mg tablet, the chance of dissolution seems to be even greater. Why not just buy larger syringes, and scale up the 0.5mg/5ml to 0.5mg/50ml?

 

Dissolving 0.5mg into 50ml of water, Basten could remove 1ml with a 5 or 10ml syringe, to get 0.49mg in solution (and so on), and it seems from the medical study mentioned above, it might actually get partly or fully into solution at that volume of water. Am I on to something or did I mess up my math?

If Basten has access to a decent balance, pure klonopin, pure water, a grad cylinder and a bath sonicator, and is really really really patient, then he might achieve Jouyban's solubility.  The published value is a limit solubility.  It's not easily achieved. 

 

People have used different volumes of water over the years.  Basten seemed to want to do this with a syringe, so that's the approach I used.

 

We're here to assist, not insist.

If Basten has access to a decent balance, pure klonopin, pure water, a grad cylinder and a bath sonicator, and is really really really patient, then he might achieve Jouyban's solubility.  The published value is a limit solubility.  It's not easily achieved. 

 

People have used different volumes of water over the years.  Basten seemed to want to do this with a syringe, so that's the approach I used.

 

We're here to assist, not insist.

 

I got grumpy and took the assist vs. insist comment personally, so I'm editing this reply; I suspect you were just defending your suggested method. I don't think I was being critical of your post, and I'm sorry you took it that way.

 

I see why you're saying not to translate the study results directly to tablet-based homebrew situations, but you didn't answer my question about more water being a better solvent. I didn't suggest anything that differed from Basten's request to use a syringe and water-based solution/suspension (except mentioning a graduated cylinder and dropper as an alternative).

 

Wouldn't more water be a more likely solvent?

Oh my!!! People I no idea what a grad or sonicator is!!! I am a pensioner 71 female . I am a consused one . I just have one 0.5 at night. 5ml yes is a teadpoon water. So i cant see how with just 5ml water can i withdraw 0.1 or 0.2 ml discard drink whats in cup withiut there hardly being any water left in cup to drink. ?

I only have a 1ml ayringe bought to use for mirtaz. The other way ive been told is jewley scales scrap off bits etc. It all sounds so hard for me. Maybe i should just cut it in half and then quarter off take theer quarters dry pill but it will crush i guess. Im no youngster no maths educatiin just little old lady who appeeciates exact explanations i.e water amount draw off up to 0.wgatevef first cut swallow whats in cup for a 4 weeks maybe etc. I will read and re resd thankyou

Oh my!!! People I no idea what a grad or sonicator is!!! I am a pensioner 71 female . I am a consused one . I just have one 0.5 at night. 5ml yes is a teadpoon water. So i cant see how with just 5ml water can i withdraw 0.1 or 0.2 ml discard drink whats in cup withiut there hardly being any water left in cup to drink. ?

I only have a 1ml ayringe bought to use for mirtaz. The other way ive been told is jewley scales scrap off bits etc. It all sounds so hard for me. Maybe i should just cut it in half and then quarter off take theer quarters dry pill but it will crush i guess. Im no youngster no maths educatiin just little old lady who appeeciates exact explanations i.e water amount draw off up to 0.wgatevef first cut swallow whats in cup for a 4 weeks maybe etc. I will read and re resd thankyou

 

I'm sorry Basten; I realize how confusing this can all be. Your request to water titrate led us to diverge a bit to discuss whether this is a safe option and how much water to use.

 

Can you get a decent syringe larger than 1ml? 5 - 10ml would be good in my opinion.

 

I believe you'll have an easier time dissolving your tablet into a larger volume of water than 5ml. I suggest using 50ml of water, a 0.5mg tablet, and then a 5 or 10ml syringe to draw reductions. You would also need a way to accurately measure 50ml of water. This may be a common measurement in the UK; I think it's sometimes on Pyrex measuring cups here in the US. Do you have an easy option to measure 50ml?

 

Each 1ml of the 0.5mg/50ml solution will be 0.01mg of clonazepam. Does that make sense to you? To reduce by this method, you'd be taking reductions with the syringe, and each 1ml you pull and discard would be a 0.01mg reduction from your 0.5mg tablet.

 

Myself or someone else can help you create a reduction tapering schedule with this 0.5mg/50ml solution, if you decide to go this way. I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with your previous tapering schedule; do you want to try 5%/14 days? Or have you been able to do more than 5%/14 day reductions safely?

 

I hope this post helps to make things more clear. Please ask questions or let us know if you'd like to go a different route.

Basten - I'm sorry the conversation got sidetracked.  fwiw - a grad (short for graduated) cylinder is just a fancy measuring cup.  It's a little more precise - has more markings on it.  A bath sonicator is what jewelers use to clean rings, etc.  It's also good for mixing things.

 

You can do the 5 ml approach with just a small vial and a 1 ml syringe, but I think it would be easier if you could obtain a 5 ml syringe.

 

If you want to use more water, an even larger syringe (e.g. 20 ml) would help.  You can use the 1 ml syringe, but you'd have to use it many many times to remove the desired amount of liquid.

 

The 5 ml method is one that nurses commonly use in hospitals.  And since you only had a 1 ml syringe, I went that direction.  If you can obtain a larger syringe (or a graduated cylinder), I'm pretty sure that we can come up with a water-based approach to fit your needs.

Hello you guys. Well my 2 jugs start markings at 100mls. Below is blanks to bottom so guess half way up would be 50mls.

 

I i will have to send off for a 20ml syringe and.try see if uk do a graduated cyljnder. Oh dear its all sooo complicated. I kinda get it. Draw off 1ml will be 0.01mg. Drink whats left in jug. Keep doing till feel resdy to reduce again maybe 3 weeks. I have never done a taper from just clonaz. I was switched from 0.5 clkn to 4mg diaz july 20. With.mjrtaz and z soo drugged a.m. reduced again 1mg on phsychs advice november started to get rough. Refuced again 1mg 10 nights ago. Rougher. And all my insides on fire ...i already have oesoohagitis bile gastritis hernia and PPIs did nothing. Infkamed something was all day on esting. So due to pain and broke  hip.op gp said go 0.5 clonaz again. Still rough but some symotoms eased a lot. .there is somethimg not right withbdigestion and waiting.2 tests. So ill buy the 20ml syringe abs cbeck out graduated cykjnder . Failing this someone has trjed to explain jewelry scales. At the moment way i feel just want to curl up and pretend im not here!! I will ask again when i ..if i...start. my gp has said you may have to stay on for life if feel too.sick. i am prediabetic high bp high cholesterol lost 14lb weight so the good Lord will chose what will be will be .i am grateful to you brainy guys

 

Slownsteady,

 

I'm relieved to see you plan to keep member threads free from side conversations and focus more on keeping things as simple as you can for members who are unfamiliar with these methods and overwhelmed by the prospect.

 

Pamster

If Basten has access to a decent balance, pure klonopin, pure water, a grad cylinder and a bath sonicator, and is really really really patient, then he might achieve Jouyban's solubility.  The published value is a limit solubility.  It's not easily achieved. 

 

People have used different volumes of water over the years.  Basten seemed to want to do this with a syringe, so that's the approach I used.

 

We're here to assist, not insist.

 

I got grumpy and took the assist vs. insist comment personally, so I'm editing this reply; I suspect you were just defending your suggested method. I don't think I was being critical of your post, and I'm sorry you took it that way.

 

I see why you're saying not to translate the study results directly to tablet-based homebrew situations, but you didn't answer my question about more water being a better solvent. I didn't suggest anything that differed from Basten's request to use a syringe and water-based solution/suspension (except mentioning a graduated cylinder and dropper as an alternative).

 

Wouldn't more water be a more likely solvent?

 

I sent you a rather long PM about the info highlighted in bold.  It seemed tangential to this thread.

It sounds like your medical situation is complicated, to say the least; I'm so sorry you're suffering so much Basten.

 

From what you're saying I understand that your doctor was ordering some very large valium cuts and things kept getting worse; 4mg to 3mg to 2mg are pretty big cuts in my opinion!

 

Now that you're on 0.5mg of clonazepam, you're at the equivalent of 10mg valium; do you feel stable? It's possible that tapering without first feeling functional could make your situation worse; so if you need to hold on clonazepam at 0.5mg/night until you feel better, I would start there.

 

I suggest getting something to measure that 50ml accurately; a 50ml graduated cylinder would be ideal! Glass is my preference, but some people get away with using plastic ones (and they won't fall and break).

 

I think Badsocref is making a good suggestion going with the 20ml syringe; it'll hopefully be less hassle in the end, but it just has to have decent 1ml markings on the sides.

 

Here's a ~5%/14 day taper schedule suggestion for the 0.5mg/50ml solution; the first number is how many ml to pull and discard, the second number is what mg dosage should remain in the solution. The first dosage is for the first two weeks (or until you get stable again), then reduce to the next one, and so on, down to 0.24mg/night (this taper schedule can continue but this is the first 6 months or so). This is a slow but likely very safe rate of reduction, in my opinion.

 

ml to remove, followed by mg to swallow:

2 0.48

5 0.45

7 0.43

9 0.41

11 0.39

13 0.37

15 0.35

17 0.33

18 0.32

20 0.30

22 0.28

23 0.27

24 0.26

26 0.24

 

Does this make sense? The first cut is to nightly discard 2ml from 50ml, so that you'll end up taking 0.48mg per night for 2+ weeks. The next cut is to discard 5ml, and you'd end up taking 0.45mg per night for the next 2+ weeks. And so on down the list.

 

If you have another taper rate in mind I can generate a new taper schedule; please let me know.

I hope you stabilize and start feeling better soon. 

Hello slowandsteady. Ive onky just read your post.

I get it. I need a 20ml syring? A 50ml grad measure.

My gp saud i could always cut my 0.5 clon in half a d return to 2mg diaz where i ledt off. I had to switch back because cariius issues and ny god the acid burning sinething all inside me was soooo bad all day. I already had acid orsoohagitis  . I will order . I cant go back to diaz. I feel stuck damned if do damned if dont.

Do you sleep now as mine was fir insombia had years on off.

Thanktou

Hello Basten,

I'm not sure I understand correctly, but it sounds like your GP said to go from 0.5mg of clonazepam to 0.25mg of clonazepam, and then rapidly crossover to 2mg of diazepam. These are three 50% reductions, one in the form of a concurrent crossover! Gah!

 

I'm so sorry. It's no surprise that you would have serious withdrawal symptoms after doing these three rapid reductions and a change of medication. I understand that diazepam isn't usually very effective in the first week or so of use, so it's almost like you went from 0.5mg clonazepam (10mg diazepam equivalent) to zero. I'll just say, that's not likely to be successful for a 70 year old.

 

I can't tell if your last statement is a question; I sleep 9 hours a night presently, but I'm still on clonazepam, and I taper around 6%/14 days. I think sleep is very important for healing.

 

You'll get through this! Please post if you have other questions about your taper. 

Hi....that was what she onky suggested as i was on 2mg diaz ahe switched me to 0.5 clon 2 weeks ago but as i feel like crap she thought maybw go back to 2mg diaz where i was at at time if switch. I dont want to go back on diaz anyway so still on 0.5 clon. I staying at this . I agree sleep imoorant for healing. I had clon 2015 cant remember how long etc. Didnt sleep for a week . The reductiin in diaz caused severe burning acid and other issues. Which other issues i still have on clon so perhaps im tolerant i have nights of sleep .sorry i get confused...old age isnt nice !!!

I see; I can't read your posts very easily. I wasn't clear before; so this was your GP's suggestion for getting back to 2mg of diazepam?

 

In my opinion, these are very large adjustments in dosage, dosage equivalency, and a very rapid crossover. It does not sound safe or comfortable.

 

I think I understand that you don't want to go back to 2mg of diazepam, because of the severe withdrawal symptoms. I hope you can taper clonazepam safely and slowly, and that this will ease some of your symptoms; jumping around between doses and benzos seems to cause havoc in the nervous system and I think this havoc takes time to repair.

 

Benzos won't solve all your health issues; I wouldn't jump to saying you're in tolerance withdrawal because you're still having some issues. I suggest either give them time, or consider alternative health care practices to medications; even psychotherapy can help with many physical issues, I am finding.

 

I hope you feel better soon! 

Sorry i am not clear. I have kept your mls taper plan. I am sticking to 0.5 now of clon. All i know is my psych told me last year 0.5 clon is 4mg diaz equiv so she switched me to that.

And a doctir USA reducing benzo had severe acid reflus which i have anyway and when i reduced to 2mg oh boy it was 100 times worse. Hoping redicing clon slowly it wont .

I appreciate help here on BB as i know i ask same things but get confused but youve been kind and informative.

Funny i am talking to a naturopathic doctor Wednesday .

It's really alright; I think I'm understanding you more and more.

 

Yeah, different psyche doctors use different equivalency charts; the one I prefer is in the Ashton Manual, and Dr. Heather Ashton says 0.5mg of clonazepam is equal to 10mg of diazepam. And she did a LOT of crossovers to diazepam, so I trust her on this. I think you were severely under-dosed; it may have been a 60% reduction in benzo during a rapid crossover. I'm impressed you made it as far as taking diazepam reductions, and I'm sorry you've had to suffer so much.

 

I'm really glad to hear you'll be speaking with a naturopathic doctor! I hope they have useful suggestions for you.

To Slowandsteady

 

I have sent for a 50ml measure tube.

I have a 5ml syringe. Inbetween each 1ml 2ml mark are 5 lines. Which each one i guess is 0.1ml etc.0.2.0.3 0.4 1ml then 1.01 1.02 1.03 1.04 2ml. Yes?

 

You said of i chose the 0.5 ckon/50 ml water and 1ml syringe yoy coukd write me a exact measure plan ?

Can you still do that please?

 

Slowandsteady i have written on here yes plesse help if can re 0.5 clon 5ml syringe abd 50ml water taper. Ive just sent forva 5pml tube.

I tried a pm to you but yiuve blicked me so i guess you sick or just cant help now. Thankyou i guess youve bkocked just me

Hello Basten,

I got your PM while I was writing this reply; I haven't blocked you.

 

On your 5ml syringe the 5 lines between each 1ml gradation means that each line is 1/5ml or 0.2ml. I wrote you a 14-day cut-and-hold tapering schedule for use of a syringe just like the 5ml you describe. Do you remember this post?

 

Here's a ~5%/14 day taper schedule suggestion for the 0.5mg/50ml solution; the first number is how many ml to pull and discard, the second number is what mg dosage should remain in the solution. The first dosage is for the first two weeks (or until you get stable again), then reduce to the next one, and so on, down to 0.24mg/night (this taper schedule can continue but this is the first 6 months or so). This is a slow but likely very safe rate of reduction, in my opinion.

 

ml to remove, followed by mg to swallow:

2 0.48

5 0.45

7 0.43

9 0.41

11 0.39

13 0.37

15 0.35

17 0.33

18 0.32

20 0.30

22 0.28

23 0.27

24 0.26

26 0.24

 

Does this make sense? The first cut is to nightly discard 2ml from 50ml, so that you'll end up taking 0.48mg per night for 2+ weeks. The next cut is to discard 5ml, and you'd end up taking 0.45mg per night for the next 2+ weeks. And so on down the list.

 

I thought you were going to take badsocref's advice and buy a 20ml syringe. Eventually a syringe of that volume will make your reductions easier to take from the 50ml; but for now and the next month or two of the suggested schedule above your 5ml syringe will be more than sufficient.

 

I should add that because you don't want to use any alcohol, you are simply creating a water suspension of clonazepam. To get a consistent reduction this means you need to vigorously stir or shake your solution immediately before taking the reduction from the middle of the volume of liquid.

 

I also suggest after drinking the remaining suspension of clonazepam, adding water to the measuring vessel, stirring it around, and drinking this as well, just to make sure any residuals are consumed.

 

Do you understand the taper schedule I suggested?

I went with what you said.5ml syringe 50ml. Yes i get it ..when i need to draw 7ml as ive only got a 5nl syringe ill draw 5ml then another 2ml = 7ml.

Ill send for a 20ml one then.

I wish id done as psych said as i was down to 2 diaz April but my insides burning sooo much re acid but i woukd have reduced 1mg again may leaving me 1mg to go end this month then thats it  . Now stuoidly back 0.5 c which everyine says is equiv to 10mg diaz except one person on here who said same as psych 0.5 c is 4ng diaz equiv.

I was tottalky off head this morning re so much going on. I only pm you in case you didnt see my reply. But it came up big red letters blocked. I am sorry but like many ive had issues and all started swapping to diaz last year. I feel like going mad!! Thankyou for your time  i hope you are doing ok.

It's no problem Basten. I'm sorry to hear how much you're suffering.

 

I'm glad you understand the taper suggestion. Please be sure to do that vigorous stirring or shaking as described; water-only liquid suspensions are not very reliable but many people do them so you're not alone. I think it will work for you.

 

Please let me know if you have other tapering questions by posting on this thread; I get email notifications on this thread presently so I won't miss them.

 

When do you plan to start your clonazepam taper?