How to ACTUALLY dissolve klonopin in alcohol?

So I've got all my cylinders, tubes, syringes, my place looking like dexter's laboratory at this point.. I'm almost ready to go with my liquid titration path to tapering off this Pam...

 

1. One thing is highly unclear: I've got 0.5mg of k to dissolve, 1ML of Absolut Vodka (for the discerning tapering man with a taste), but like... do I just pour it onto it..  1ML is not a lot of liquid, so do I mix it with some more water or something... if so, how much? Or do I just mix it all together into 1 big 10ML (.9ML water, .1Alcohol, + the .5mg pill altogether)... Whats the science captain?

 

2. Also, I'm planning on mixing the end result to make up a total of 100ML, but, could I make it 200ML, is there like a point where it becomes too dilluted?

 

Please help!

I’m going to tell you what I and other buddies have done, but first I want to say that making a homebrew is imprecise, so we don’t really know a lot of things about whether it makes a true solution versus a suspension.

 

The method I used (before switching to Rx liquid) was a ratio of 1 mg benzo: 2 ml alcohol: 8 ml water. That creates a 1:10 liquid.  Now if you wanted to further dilute the solution you’d add however much water (so if you wanted 100 ml you’d add 98 ml of water instead of 8 ml— that would give you a ratio of 1:100). Now, because we don’t know if this is actually a solution, you will need to thoroughly shake your jar prior to drawing up the liquid.

Hey RexV86, so you've replicated Dexter's laboratory?  I'm glad to hear you have some decent volumetric measuring equipment; may it serve you well. Just remember to read the measurement in things like graduated cylinders at the bottom of the meniscus.

 

I don't agree with the 1:2:8 strategy that is described above, sorry kitsune556! But I do agree with her warnings about homebrew, and her instructions on how to dilute the dissolved clonazepam to make easy reductions, if you're going to be doing a daily discarding method. Some people dilute to as much as 300ml, which makes for much larger but therefore more accurate reductions. Plus 300ml is just over a cup; it's still not much solution if you're working with kitchen tools.

 

To dissolve the clonazepam rapidly, I suggest the strongest alcohol you can find (ideally 190 or 180 proof), and combine 1-2ml of alcohol ALONE with your 0.5mg tablet. Using 80 proof (40% ethanol) and/or diluting the alcohol while trying to dissolve the clonazepam is only going to radically slow down the dissolution process; medical studies done on the dissolution of clonazepam have used 48 hours as a reliable timeline for the medication to dissolve in solutions of low ethanol content (such as the 1:2:8, which with 80 proof vodka is only 8% ethanol). Do you plan to wait 48 hours?

 

If you can't get anything stronger than 80 proof, I suggest using it alone, and giving the tablets a good period of time to soak in this 1-2ml of solvent. Maybe an hour or two? I'd suggest much longer to be safe, but then people titrate with water, so you'll probably do whatever you have time for. I'm all for practicality, but I also don't know how reliably you'll get a true solution in a hurry with just 40% ethanol. After your patience runs out, only then do I suggest diluting with water.

 

Personally I do things a little differently. I make all my liquid medicine about once every month or two, and it's only 30ml in total. I start by dissolving the clonazepam tablets in 90% ethanol, then after about an hour of stirring and waiting I dilute it down to 30% ethanol. I dose this liquid with a 1ml syringe, and I take most of my doses in tablets so that my liquid portion is very small; the liquid portion is purely for titrating my DMT, which consists of reducing a single dose per day.

 

I end up consuming 1/20th of a teaspoon of ethanol per day at MOST, while creating a well-preserved and likely well-dissolved solution. Plus I never discard any of my prescription. The notes for how I do this, my DMT and my recipe are all linked in my signature under 'My Klonopin Taper Tools & Techniques'. The medical research which supports my recipe proportions is cited at the bottom of the liquid clonazepam recipe therein.

 

Is there Everclear for sale near you?

So I've got all my cylinders, tubes, syringes, my place looking like dexter's laboratory at this point.

 

 

Oh dear, this is exactly how I felt when I was concocting my liquid taper in the kitchen  :-)  First thing I did when I finished my taper is throw all that paraphernalia away.

 

Hey RexV86, so you've replicated Dexter's laboratory?  I'm glad to hear you have some decent volumetric measuring equipment; may it serve you well. Just remember to read the measurement in things like graduated cylinders at the bottom of the meniscus.

 

I don't agree with the 1:2:8 strategy that is described above, sorry kitsune556! But I do agree with her warnings about homebrew, and her instructions on how to dilute the dissolved clonazepam to make easy reductions, if you're going to be doing a daily discarding method. Some people dilute to as much as 300ml, which makes for much larger but therefore more accurate reductions. Plus 300ml is just over a cup; it's still not much solution if you're working with kitchen tools.

 

To dissolve the clonazepam rapidly, I suggest the strongest alcohol you can find (ideally 190 or 180 proof), and combine 1-2ml of alcohol ALONE with your 0.5mg tablet. Using 80 proof (40% ethanol) and/or diluting the alcohol while trying to dissolve the clonazepam is only going to radically slow down the dissolution process; medical studies done on the dissolution of clonazepam have used 48 hours as a reliable timeline for the medication to dissolve in solutions of low ethanol content (such as the 1:2:8, which with 80 proof vodka is only 8% ethanol). Do you plan to wait 48 hours?

 

If you can't get anything stronger than 80 proof, I suggest using it alone, and giving the tablets a good period of time to soak in this 1-2ml of solvent. Maybe an hour or two? I'd suggest much longer to be safe, but then people titrate with water, so you'll probably do whatever you have time for. I'm all for practicality, but I also don't know how reliably you'll get a true solution in a hurry with just 40% ethanol. After your patience runs out, only then do I suggest diluting with water.

 

Personally I do things a little differently. I make all my liquid medicine about once every month or two, and it's only 30ml in total. I start by dissolving the clonazepam tablets in 90% ethanol, then after about an hour of stirring and waiting I dilute it down to 30% ethanol. I dose this liquid with a 1ml syringe, and I take most of my doses in tablets so that my liquid portion is very small; the liquid portion is purely for titrating my DMT, which consists of reducing a single dose per day.

 

I end up consuming 1/20th of a teaspoon of ethanol per day at MOST, while creating a well-preserved and likely well-dissolved solution. Plus I never discard any of my prescription. The notes for how I do this, my DMT and my recipe are all linked in my signature under 'My Klonopin Taper Tools & Techniques'. The medical research which supports my recipe proportions is cited at the bottom of the liquid clonazepam recipe therein.

 

Is there Everclear for sale near you?

 

I’m glad you spotted this thread! I was hoping you or Badsocref would chime in. No need to apologize, I’m simply repeating what I and others have done, I know there is a lot of debate and that’s why I put the disclaimer on my response.

 

I should add when I made my homebrew, I dissolved the pills in alcohol only and waited 30 minutes before diluting. I don’t think many others did that, but also I was using Valium not Klonopin so there’s obviously differences there as far as solubility in ethanol goes.

I’m glad you spotted this thread! I was hoping you or Badsocref would chime in. No need to apologize, I’m simply repeating what I and others have done, I know there is a lot of debate and that’s why I put the disclaimer on my response.

 

I should add when I made my homebrew, I dissolved the pills in alcohol only and waited 30 minutes before diluting. I don’t think many others did that, but also I was using Valium not Klonopin so there’s obviously differences there as far as solubility in ethanol goes.

 

Thanks for clarifying your method kitsune556! Diazepam, as I recall, is significantly easier to dissolve in water and ethanol, but I really need to go back to that medical study to be sure...

 

I'm always a little surprised when people want me to post; I guess I have low self-esteem. Thanks for welcoming me here. Many people go the daily discard route and I value that you can offer your personal experience.

 

RexV86, I think you'll get good advice here however you decide to proceed.

Many buddies make light work! 

Sorry - I had taken a nap.

 

A few of us have been having some discussions about liquid formulations lately, and we're uncomfortable with the 1:2:8 ratio for klonopin.  It'll work for some benzos, but klonopin's solubility is kind of low.

 

Give me a few minutes - I gotta look something up.

We're still formulating our new preferences for this stuff.  We want to be sure that users have some 'wiggle room' since we're not in an actual laboratory.

 

I think a minimum amount of wiggle room is 50%, so if we wanted a kitchen chemist to achieve 0.1 mg/ml, the published maximum concentration should be at least 0.2 mg/ml.

 

That requires the alcohol content to remain at or above 30% for klonopin.  So you could do a 0.1 mg/ml solution in 1:8:2 or 1:9:1 (K:vodka:water).  If you do that, add the alcohol first and mix thoroughly for at least 5 minutes before adding the water.  Probably even better/easier to simply use straight vodka and make 1:4:0 or 1:5:0.  Again, I'd mix for at least 5 minutes.  Those won't make a 0.1 mg/ml solution, but you can figure out the new concentration depending on how much vodka you use.

 

You could measure/take the vodka-based solution directly using a syringe or make a suspension by diluting into a large amount of water.  If you do the latter, I'd use it up within a day or two.  We're not sure how long these suspensions last, and there's evidence for some benzos sticking to the sides of containers over time.

 

That's what I know right now.

That requires the alcohol content to remain at or above 30% for klonopin.  So you could do a 0.1 mg/ml solution in 1:8:2 or 1:9:1 (K:vodka:water).

 

Are you saying to use 1 part klonopin, 8 parts vodka, and 1 part water?  Sorry, I am not following you?

To clarify...

 

1 mg klonopin + 8 ml vodka.  Mix well.  + 2 ml water.  Mix.  Solution would be 0.1 mg/ml

 

Or

 

1 mg klonopin + 9 ml vodka.  Mix well.  + 1 ml water.  Mix.  Solution is 0.1 mg/ml

 

Or

 

1 mg klonopin + 4 ml vodka.  Mix well.  Solution is 0.25 mg/ml

 

Or

 

1 mg klonopin + 5 ml vodka.  Mix well.  Solution is 0.2 mg/ml

 

I think that all of these satisfy the 50% wiggle room requirement.  Mixing 1 mg with 4ml vodka (no water) would use the smallest amount of alcohol.  I know that's a consideration for many people. 

 

Keeping the alcohol content above 30% should keep klonopin in solution at 0.1 mg/ml (the lab value is 0.2 mg/ml).  With the old 1:2:8 approach, the alcohol content was only 8%, so the klonopin was suspended instead of being in solution.  Suspensions actually work fairly well, but not as well as solutions.  Also, suspensions are useful for shorter periods of time.

 

I don't want you to think that the old 1:2:8 approach was wrong.  We're just trying to improve it.  I'm sorry if all of this sounds like lab ramblings.  We're in the middle of discussing and formulating these ideas.  Eventually, we hope to come out with a set of 'best practices' with nice easy to follow instructions and the pros and cons of each approach.  It's going to take a while.

First of all, Thank all of you for all the replies. It's interesting to know the 1:2 solution thing is no longer the "suggested" method. I might try the 1:4 then or since I actually take .5mg 2 times a day, I might just get a 1mg pill and go 1:8 ... still have to think about it myself... Also have to look up this everclear thing, or 151 RUM like some others had suggested(actually i think my walmart might have everclear which like you said is 190 so ill try that if they have it)... But I am so GRATEFUL for all of your replies and information, and this forum.

 

The bit about reading the miniscus at the bottom was good info as well, had no idea about that...

 

I was so lost in the beginning searching through google on how to taper benzos and the first 2 pages of google are all Detox Clinics trying to sell you will die trying to do it alone, and that it can't be done.. I was so fricking scared....

 

1. One other question though: What do yal use to mix this first part of 1:8 solution (a glass cup, some sort of vial?)

Whatever works.  5 ml (or 10 ml) syringe??  Ideally something you can mix in that will discourage evaporation of the alcohol.  Small vial or bottle with a lid?? 

An FYI about Everclear ...

 

In the US, Everclear is bottled at 60%, 75.5%, and 95% alcohol by volume (120, 151, and 190 proof).  States have different laws regarding its sale. For example, some states ban the sale of Everclear 190 but allow the sale of Everclear 151.

 

An FYI about Everclear ...

 

In the US, Everclear is bottled at 60%, 75.5%, and 95% alcohol by volume (120, 151, and 190 proof).  States have different laws regarding its sale. For example, some states ban the sale of Everclear 190 but allow the sale of Everclear 151.

 

I did not know that; thank you Libertas.

 

 

 

 

 

To clarify...

 

1 mg klonopin + 8 ml vodka.  Mix well.  + 2 ml water.  Mix.  Solution would be 0.1 mg/ml

 

Or

 

1 mg klonopin + 9 ml vodka.  Mix well.  + 1 ml water.  Mix.  Solution is 0.1 mg/ml

 

Or

 

1 mg klonopin + 4 ml vodka.  Mix well.  Solution is 0.25 mg/ml

 

Or

 

1 mg klonopin + 5 ml vodka.  Mix well.  Solution is 0.2 mg/ml

 

Not that I'm doubting you, but just to be sure, before I embark on this quest:

Is there any umm "science" to back up how you arrived at these calculations for the solution mg/ml contents?

 

And If I were to use Everclear, which is a much higher alcohol, what would you say the solution would come out to (should less everclear be used in that case as well)?

We're referring to data in some papers by a group headed by a guy named Jouyban for the drug solubility.  If you Google klonopin solubility ethanol ncbi, you'll find his papers.

 

Less total alcohol can be used if the final alcohol concentration is higher.  I haven't worked out all of the various combinations yet.  As I said - this is an on-going discussion. 

This is the medical research I used to formulate my long-term homebrew recipe. Thanks to Libertas for making me aware of this research...

 

Solubility of Lamotrigine, Diazepam, and Clonazepam in Ethanol + Water Mixtures at 298.15 K. Journal of Chemical and Engineering Data, 2008, Washington D.C.: American Chemical Society, pp. 1107-1109. Accessed online at:

https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc674044/m2/1/high_res_d/Acree%20Pub-479.pdf

 

The molecular mass of clonazepam is 315.711g/mol. That should help you translate the mol * L to the -1 power that researchers like to boggle us with. Just times the number they give in their table of results by the molecular mass of the chemical they're referring to, and you'll get the grams/liter they're talking about. Times that by 1000 to get milligrams per liter. I think...

 

I don't really understand the benefits of making a daily liquid solution; there is a lot of work involved waiting for dissolution, stirring, diluting, discarding, etc and then to repeat this daily... I have a bottle of homebrew in the fridge that lasts months and dosing each day takes about 1-2 minutes and I never throw away a drop of my script. If you have a Dexter-esque collection of cylinders available to you, and your end formulation requires a large alcohol content, why not consider a longer-lasting solution? All you'd need is a 1ml oral syringe with 100 gradations. I provide links to the Amazon listings I used, all in my formulation guide.

 

Liquid/tablet hybrid tapering keeps the liquid dose minimal, minimizing the ethanol content and the risks of a dodgy homebrew, so 30ml of solution lasts me over a month of titrating. I don't think Badoscref's suggested recipes are going to be very useful unless you have a way to combine this with tablets, a tapering schedule, and a precise measuring device to dose. I try to address these concerns in my signature link...

 

I'm probably repeating myself on this thread...

This is the medical research I used to formulate my long-term homebrew recipe. Thanks to Libertas for making me aware of this research...

 

Solubility of Lamotrigine, Diazepam, and Clonazepam in Ethanol + Water Mixtures at 298.15 K. Journal of Chemical and Engineering Data, 2008, Washington D.C.: American Chemical Society, pp. 1107-1109. Accessed online at:

https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc674044/m2/1/high_res_d/Acree%20Pub-479.pdf

 

The molecular mass of clonazepam is 315.711g/mol. That should help you translate the mol * L to the -1 power that researchers like to boggle us with. Just times the number they give in their table of results by the molecular mass of the chemical they're referring to, and you'll get the grams/liter they're talking about. Times that by 1000 to get milligrams per liter. I think...

 

I don't really understand the benefits of making a daily liquid solution; there is a lot of work involved waiting for dissolution, stirring, diluting, discarding, etc and then to repeat this daily... I have a bottle of homebrew in the fridge that lasts months and dosing each day takes about 1-2 minutes and I never throw away a drop of my script. If you have a Dexter-esque collection of cylinders available to you, and your end formulation requires a large alcohol content, why not consider a longer-lasting solution? All you'd need is a 1ml oral syringe with 100 gradations. I provide links to the Amazon listings I used, all in my formulation guide.

 

Liquid/tablet hybrid tapering keeps the liquid dose minimal, minimizing the ethanol content and the risks of a dodgy homebrew, so 30ml of solution lasts me over a month of titrating. I don't think Badoscref's suggested recipes are going to be very useful unless you have a way to combine this with tablets, a tapering schedule, and a precise measuring device to dose. I try to address these concerns in my signature link...

 

I'm probably repeating myself on this thread...

 

I totally agree with you though, its just an overwhelming amount of information at first... but I want to take get somewhere along where you are... where I don't have to make a solution every 2-3 days... I'm going read your posts again , various times, to try and understand every part. There certainly is some learning to do, to get to where you are at making these solutions...

 

I will be tapering both my daily doses though, I dont know if thats the right way to do it, or if there is a "right" way to do it... I know to me its more about sleeping at night, but I don't know if I need to maintain both doses the same for that or I need a higher dose at night, only experiments will be able to tell me. But I want off this med, and I feel like if I do a slow taper on both doses I can get there.

I totally agree with you though, its just an overwhelming amount of information at first... but I want to take get somewhere along where you are... where I don't have to make a solution every 2-3 days... I'm going read your posts again , various times, to try and understand every part. There certainly is some learning to do, to get to where you are at making these solutions...

 

I will be tapering both my daily doses though, I dont know if thats the right way to do it, or if there is a "right" way to do it... I know to me its more about sleeping at night, but I don't know if I need to maintain both doses the same for that or I need a higher dose at night, only experiments will be able to tell me. But I want off this med, and I feel like if I do a slow taper on both doses I can get there.

 

It is a LOT of information, and most of the trouble I have helping people seems to be getting them over the hurdles of making a liquid formula, and of generating and adjusting a custom taper schedule. These are two pretty large hurdles, I'm finding. So please don't feel like you're lagging; I get the sense you are up to the task. It does just take some real patience and perseverance though.

 

I had two failed DMT attempts before getting with the ethanol brew; both times I was using an MCT oil suspension, recommended and compounded by a pharmacist. It was a disaster each time. I'm very lucky I was using a liquid/tablet hybrid, so the damage was only a hard cut-and-hold and not a dangerous drop in dosage. Hopefully you can benefit from my mistakes!

 

Please ask questions if I can help, and please give me shameless feedback on my recipe or other instructions; no one proof-read them, and I'd really love to make them better. 

so they dont have everclear at my wallmart.. it gues its just vodka for my solution at the end of the day...

151 rum might be an option.  Definitely higher alcohol.  I recall a really good/bad night with the stuff once...

 

Cask strength alcohols are another option.  Many are over 45, 50%, but they tend to be pricey.

"I recall a really good/bad night with the stuff once..." LOL .. well I might NOT remember a really good/bad night with it LOL..

 

 

yeah my walmart liquor store is wack(the strongest they had was 44% alcohol)... I ended up just instacarting it and I did find EverClear... dont know why I didn't think about that before

Hello, RexV86. I thought you might find it helpful to see one approach you could use to taper clonazepam. Advantages of this approach include (1) it keeps as much of your dose as possible in a tested/known drug format (tablets) as long as possible and (2) it minimizes the amount of untested/unknown homebrew (and, in this case, alcohol) ingested.

 

Current Total Daily Dose: 1 mg

Current Dosing Schedule: 0.5 mg twice a day

 

Phase 1

Split 0.5mg tablet in half.  Take:

 

0.25mg in tablet + 0.25mg in liquid

0.25mg in tablet + 0.25mg in liquid

 

Make “small enough” reductions in dose using the liquid portion until you reach 0mg liquid. Your total daily dose at this point will be 0.5mg.

 

Phase 2

Get a prescription for 0.125 orally disintegrating tablets (ODTs). Take:

 

0.125mg in ODT + 0.125mg in liquid

0.125mg in ODT + 0.125mg in liquid

 

Make “small enough” reductions in dose using the liquid portion until you reach 0mg liquid. Your total daily dose at this point will be 0.25mg.

 

Phase 3

Complete taper using all liquid.

 

0.125mg in liquid

0.125mg in liquid

 

 

FYI If you decide to ditch the kitchen chemistry lab and/or encounter issues with homebrew (it doesn’t work for everyone), another option to consider is a professionally compounded, 0.1mg oral suspension of clonazepam, preferably made with the pure active drug substance (not regular tablets). Potency- and stability-tested formulations are available.

 

Libertas, I appreciate you illustrating the concept of a liquid/tablet hybrid taper, but without instructions on at what rate to taper the liquid portion it's somewhat useless.

 

Have you read my post on generating a liquid/tablet hybrid taper? The website I link to will generate a DMT using tablets and liquid, and the liquid can be any potency. You probably know about http://benzo.alwaysdata.net.

 

I chose to use a liquid for which 1ml = 1/4 of my current tablet size (with 0.5mg clonazepam tablets, that means I make a 0.125mg/ml solution). I explain why in the post, but basically it just makes reductions so much simpler to think about, and I only need a 1ml syringe with 100 gradations and a single pull to do a 1/4 pill substitution, titrate that liquid portion to zero over the days required and repeat. The website does the math for how much liquid to take each day and generates a spreadsheet. If the rate is too slow or too fast, I can just generate a new taper schedule, print and resume. This takes all the headache out of it for me and allows for both a custom liquid formulation, and any taper rate desired (although I suggest percentage based between 5-10% of course).

 

And some compounding pharmacies, like the one I work with, will make a benzo solution or suspension of any concentration you want, and in a wide variety of suspending vehicles or solvents (especially if you email them supporting medical literature  ). I'm trialing some compounded 0.125mg/ml solution currently, custom made to match my 30% ethanol homebrew but with pure clonazepam instead of tablets, basically to compare it my tablet recipe for efficacy. I'm a little paranoid since the homebrew was working perfectly, but so far I'm still alive and on day 5 of the trial doing a 6%/14 day DMT.

I'm still not understanding a good way to mix all this, I have these 10ml vials, but powder always ends up on the sides, and I'm not sure how I should be letting it dissolve correctly....