Desiring Help with a Plan of Attack (Klonopin 3mg Daily)

Dear community,

 

Well, the bell tolls. The doctor has finally uttered the words I didn't want to hear. "Time to taper".

 

I have been on clonazepam for three years. Unbeknownst to him, I went through bad withdrawals in order to stockpile around 600mgs to taper myself off in the event that it would happen. I knew I would be on the chopping block, just did not know when.

 

He has suggested 10% every three days. I of course shared the Ashton method but of course he wasn't privy to it. It doesn't sound like psychiatrists ever are. 30 day taper after three years? I knew he was going to swing the gavel but not this hard. I have in no way indicated any sort of abuse potential. I have taken it as directed. I still have another 270mg refill for late May, but I want to taper as if that will never be filled. Worst case, 600mg is what I have to taper with. They are 1mg tabs.

 

I'm requesting that someone could please help me come up with a plan to get off these. I have university to wrap up plus a job hunt afterwards and I cannot afford to be a wreck during such a pivotal time.

 

So far, all I know is I need a graduated cylinder and some full fat milk. Beyond that, I have no idea how to do this.

 

From experience, I've gone from 3mg to 2mg a day in a few weeks and just about lost my mind. I don't want this to be the end of my sanity. To be completely honest, this is the most terrifying experience I have ever encountered. I do not want to lose my ability to write, teach, work, and play music. I want to be able to be the sharp tack everyone knows me as. I know this will a potential nightmare, but I do not want to lose myself in the process. I worry that this is the beginning of the end. The hourglass has been flipped.

 

I am a religious Christian and even my faith has begun to waver just at the thought of this. God willing, someone help me figure this out.

 

Peace be with anyone that reads this and God Bless anyone that is going through this, has gone through it before, or helps others find their way.

 

Regards,

Milagro Man

 

 

I'm glad you're here Milagro Man. Thanks for all the details, and I'm sure we can help you come up with a good plan.

 

First thought I have is, would you be willing to switch doctors? I'm entirely in support of your taper, but in my experience doctors, even detox or addition or benzo specialists, push absurd taper rates and often make their compliant and trusting patients into invalids. You seem very wise to this eventuality, but I don't think you should need to rely on a stash of pills. In my mind, the best case scenario is one where you can taper as slowly as your body requires, maintain full functionality, and do it with EASE, because a doctor is going to keep writing you the scripts you need to do this.

 

So before we rush to make a taper plan with 600 pills, can you just switch doctors? Plenty are willing to prescribe indefinitely. A rare few are willing to prescribe knowing you're trying to taper slowly, especially psyche nurse practitioners, in my experience. But far and away, the most functional taperers seem to be in total control of their taper rate, and getting their pills regularly, usually at their original dosage rates.

 

What do you think about making a doctor switch? Maybe after filling your last script?

Thanks for the reply mate.

 

I do not know if he is going to play hard ball and stick with the 10% every few days method or not. He did say today that if I have terrible withdrawals that he would put me "back up", which to me implies that he won'y unnecessarily yank me off.

 

Perhaps I should consider a new doctor, though, depending on what happens with him.

 

I need to start the tapering today, the longer I have the better.

 

What should I do? Is going down to 2.5 right away okay? Do I start this microtaper milk suspension for starters or save that for when I get closer to the jump? Any and all advice would be welcome and considered.

 

Thanks again,

Milagro

Hello Milagro Man.

 

Using a homebrew liquid made with whole fat, homogenized milk to taper clonazepam has worked well for many individuals.  Here’s a video that demonstrates the procedure one such individual followed:

 

(Might I encourage you NOT to use the spreadsheet included with the video? Many of our members get into trouble using spreadsheets or online tools developed by others. Instead, consider doing a symptom-based, just-right-for-you taper.  This means making “small enough” reductions in dose on a schedule that keeps your withdrawal symptoms tolerable. You monitor your symptoms and adjust the reduction amount and schedule as needed.)

 

To help others help you, would you please provide a bit more information?

• Am I correct that your current total daily dose is 3mg?  Are you experiencing any withdrawal symptoms at that dose?
  
• What is your current daily dosing schedule? (time and amounts)?
  
• Are your 1mg tablets scored?  (Given that you are on a relatively high dose of clonazepam, using a combination of pill-splitting and liquid titration to taper might be an option.)
  
• Have you taken a benzodiazepine before and stopped it?
  
• Are you taking or have you taken other psychotropic drugs (e.g. anti-depressants)?
  

Hello Milagro Man.

 

Using a homebrew liquid made with whole fat, homogenized milk to taper clonazepam has worked well for many individuals.  Here’s a video that demonstrates the procedure one such individual followed:

 

(Might I encourage you NOT to use the spreadsheet included with the video? Many of our members get into trouble using spreadsheets or online tools developed by others. Instead, consider doing a symptom-based, just-right-for-you taper.  This means making “small enough” reductions in dose on a schedule that keeps your withdrawal symptoms tolerable. You monitor your symptoms and adjust the reduction amount and schedule as needed.)

 

To help others help you, would you please provide a bit more information?

• Am I correct that your current total daily dose is 3mg?  Are you experiencing any withdrawal symptoms at that dose?
  
• What is your current daily dosing schedule? (time and amounts)?
  
• Are your 1mg tablets scored?  (Given that you are on a relatively high dose of clonazepam, using a combination of pill-splitting and liquid titration to taper might be an option.)
  
• Have you taken a benzodiazepine before and stopped it?
  
• Are you taking or have you taken other psychotropic drugs (e.g. anti-depressants)?
  

 

I take 3mg a day total. 1 mg every 8 hours.

My 1mg tablets are not scored

I have been on a benzo for around 5 years daily. No cessation during that period.

I currently take 150mg of lamotrigine and am starting sertraline. 25mg sertraline a day to reach a goal amount of 150mg a day.

I'm not in the milk digesting population. I make a homebrew liquid K with alcohol (I take 1/20th of a tsp or less per day of ethanol), and I do a liquid/tablet hybrid daily micro taper.

 

Dropping to 2.5mg from 3mg is a 16% reduction; that seems a little rough to start, and far more than I would do if I wanted to maintain full functionality.

 

A couple things to mention; first, you're sort of a long-term user at 5 years out; you may feel like it's going easy at first and then get hit by delayed withdrawals. This is SO common, I'm writing this same paragraph to someone every day, either to explain the mess they're in, or to try to help them avoid getting in one. If functionality is your goal, a SLOW slow taper is what I would suggest. An example would be a 5-7%/14 day taper (based always on your current dose); that's 2+ years of tapering, and likely being fully functional all the time. With this approach, most of your dosage will reduce in the beginning 6 months to a year, and then you'll coast at low dosage numbers for a long while until the end. I would caution against anything over 7%/14 days, and I'm tempted to suggest sticking with 5% for 3 years and just getting used to it. Rushing carries a high health cost.

 

Secondly, unless you want to ride the waves of a cut and hold, and for clonazepam with it's 35hr half-life this can be a long bumpy ride, I suggest doing a daily micro taper. There is a link in my signature that explains a liquid/tablet hybrid taper, how to do a daily micro taper, and how to make a homemade liquid clonazepam from tablets. Let me know if you get a chance to read through it; this is how I'm tapering and it can be adapted to whatever speed you need to go at.

 

Lastly, many many people rush their tapers. I have. I probably will again. The cost is always that precious functionality you were referring to, and the bigger and faster you're cutting, the longer it can take to get that functionality back. If you read around the forum you'll find many people who cut quickly, either because they were long-term users and felt okay at first or because their doctor ordered it or because of the feedback loop where the anxiety of tapering makes them want to go faster and that causes more anxiety and faster tapering and so on.

 

So before you cut and get into this mess, I suggest taking a minute to really cherish your functionality, and set some standards for sleep, standards for exercise, appetite, and social activity, like in your original post. And don't let those get away from you. There's a subculture on here of people who are bedridden and just in agony, and I hear you don't want to join that group; the only way I know to stay functional is to go slow. If you hear only one message from this rambling post it's this: please go slowly. So slow. Pointlessly slow. I don't think you will regret it.

 

That's why I suggested another doctor. 10% reductions every few days will likely get you bedridden; I wouldn't trust a thing that doctor says about reducing. This is just me; I know you'll find your way! Keep sharing and let us know how we can help. 

I'm not in the milk digesting population. I make a homebrew liquid K with alcohol (I take 1/20th of a tsp or less per day of ethanol), and I do a liquid/tablet hybrid daily micro taper.

 

Dropping to 2.5mg from 3mg is a 16% reduction; that seems a little rough to start, and far more than I would do if I wanted to maintain full functionality.

 

A couple things to mention; first, you're sort of a long-term user at 5 years out; you may feel like it's going easy at first and then get hit by delayed withdrawals. This is SO common, I'm writing this same paragraph to someone every day, either to explain the mess they're in, or to try to help them avoid getting in one. If functionality is your goal, a SLOW slow taper is what I would suggest. An example would be a 5-7%/14 day taper (based always on your current dose); that's 2+ years of tapering, and likely being fully functional all the time. With this approach, most of your dosage will reduce in the beginning 6 months to a year, and then you'll coast at low dosage numbers for a long while until the end. I would caution against anything over 7%/14 days, and I'm tempted to suggest sticking with 5% for 3 years and just getting used to it. Rushing carries a high health cost.

 

Secondly, unless you want to ride the waves of a cut and hold, and for clonazepam with it's 35hr half-life this can be a long bumpy ride, I suggest doing a daily micro taper. There is a link in my signature that explains a liquid/tablet hybrid taper, how to do a daily micro taper, and how to make a homemade liquid clonazepam from tablets. Let me know if you get a chance to read through it; this is how I'm tapering and it can be adapted to whatever speed you need to go at.

 

Lastly, many many people rush their tapers. I have. I probably will again. The cost is always that precious functionality you were referring to, and the bigger and faster you're cutting, the longer it can take to get that functionality back. If you read around the forum you'll find many people who cut quickly, either because they were long-term users and felt okay at first or because their doctor ordered it or because of the feedback loop where the anxiety of tapering makes them want to go faster and that causes more anxiety and faster tapering and so on.

 

So before you cut and get into this mess, I suggest taking a minute to really cherish your functionality, and set some standards for sleep, standards for exercise, appetite, and social activity, like in your original post. And don't let those get away from you. There's a subculture on here of people who are bedridden and just in agony, and I hear you don't want to join that group; the only way I know to stay functional is to go slow. If you hear only one message from this rambling post it's this: please go slowly. So slow. Pointlessly slow. I don't think you will regret it.

 

That's why I suggested another doctor. 10% reductions every few days will likely get you bedridden; I wouldn't trust a thing that doctor says about reducing. This is just me; I know you'll find your way! Keep sharing and let us know how we can help. 

 

Let's say I start tonight by taking 2.75mg a day for a couple weeks. If I cut the pills properly, how do I know that the medicine is evenly distributed throughout the pill? Couldn't one quarter of a pill contain more medicine than another?

Hi Milagro Man!

 

I think shaving pills is a fine way to start.  There's no change in the medicine form.  Makes life a lot easier. 

 

The way those pills are made should ensure that the medicine is nicely distributed throughout the pill.  Think of the big vat of drug and filler all mixed together like a big vat of sugar cookie dough.  There's a little sugar in every corner of that cookie if it's mixed well.  Same for the pill (and it IS mixed well).

 

I think 3 days is too fast, personally.  It'll take 4-6 days for the 10% cut to really take effect.  But if that's what you have to do, then pay really close attention to how you're feeling and report anything significant to your doctor.  You don't want to continue cutting if your symptoms are getting worse more rapidly than you can handle them.  A little bit of anxiety/insomnia/whatever is expected, but you don't want to become bed-bound or need to resort to rescue doses.  Stop making additional cuts before you get to that point!!

You could do a 0.25mg reduction cut-and-hold if you want; it will likely take ten days to two weeks to resolve. But I doubt you'll get a good sense from that experience of how fast to taper since long term users like yourself don't seem to get their full withdrawal effects until several months down the road (sometimes six or more). Hence my suggestion to just pick a low reduction rate, a method that puts you in control of that reduction rate all the time (titration, either liquid or dry), and ideally with daily reductions if you can swing it.

 

I'm a little concerned that you're starting this journey in a hurry. Have you had a look at the variety of tapering and reduction methods? Have you explored some of the success stories or progress logs or buddie blogs to find examples of what's worked and what hasn't with other buddies?

 

Anything you can do to go slowly and carefully will likely pay dividends.

Prior planning prevents protracted panics!

Let's say I start tonight by taking 2.75mg a day for a couple weeks. If I cut the pills properly...

 

Hello. Since we are on the titration board, have you look at liquid-based DMT (daily micro taper)? The pills can be dissolved in alcohol to make a solution. I am doing a DMT, and it is working out really well. I can make micro cuts on a daily basis, and the dosage control is entirely through the syringe. There is nothing to weigh, shave or cut.

 

A few links from slownsteady:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=254653.msg3228600#msg3228600

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=254653.msg3229788#msg3229788

Welcome to the forum.

 

I second the suggestion that you explore the option of swapping doctors. This process in itself is quite stressful and you don't need the added stress and anxiety of not having enough pills and not being in control of your taper.

 

PLEASE be extremely careful with your speed of tapering. If you look at my signature you'll see I had two massive drops due to benzo ignorance. The first drop resulted in wd symptoms where I was still sick and barely functional and I updosed just in time. I had to quit my part-time studies. The second cut I only felt the full force of the cut after 3 weeks when I hit acute wd and was bedridden and had to sick leave for a few days. So you might think you're managing pretty well on a big cut after 2 weeks but it will hit you eventually.

 

You say you want to maintain your quality of life. That basically suggests to me a VERY slow taper and holding based on symptoms. I had a 7% cut and hold and I could feel the wd. In other words I cut from 1mg to 0.93 mg and I could not maintain my quality of living.

 

Don't get me wrong, I was functioning but the brain fog, insomnia, exhaustion headaches etc were persistent and I could do only the bare minimum expected of me at work and home. If you want a minimum sx taper you'll have to go extremely slow (and that does not guarantee no sx just a better chance of functionality) otherwise you'll have to make peace with the fact that you might not be the sharp tack and that's okay. It's okay to just be functional and get through the day.

 

I am currently doing a dry daily micro taper of 10% over 2 weeks using Bob07 method. Bob is an amazing help on this forum and his videos explain everything if you were considering his method https://benzodrytapermath.com/

 

There's no right or wrong tapering method just what you feel comfortable with.

 

This process is not necessarily hell for everyone. Especially if you take it slow you stand a better chance. I'm not going through hell but I'm definitely feeling wd and not having the quality of life I'm used to. I have been able to resume my studies but it's a struggle. At least I have been able to do manage my job and be somewhat functional at home. But I'm getting off these darn pills and awaiting the long-term rewards.

I also want to add that people often forget that tapering too fast or making a big cut can set them back in their journey and you can end up using more pills (which seems to be one of your big concerns).

 

If your cut is too big and after a couple of weeks you hit acute or you are not functioning then you usually have to reinstate for 2-3 weeks or even more to stabilize again and regain functionality.

 

We can't say what max dose your body will be able to tolerate. All we know with relative certainty is the research from the Ashton Manual that suggests the best approach is cutting 10% of your dose over approximately 2 weeks.

 

Wishing you all the best.

Welcome to the forum.

 

I second the suggestion that you explore the option of swapping doctors. This process in itself is quite stressful and you don't need the added stress and anxiety of not having enough pills and not being in control of your taper.

 

PLEASE be extremely careful with your speed of tapering. If you look at my signature you'll see I had two massive drops due to benzo ignorance. The first drop resulted in wd symptoms where I was still sick and barely functional and I updosed just in time. I had to quit my part-time studies. The second cut I only felt the full force of the cut after 3 weeks when I hit acute wd and was bedridden and had to sick leave for a few days. So you might think you're managing pretty well on a big cut after 2 weeks but it will hit you eventually.

 

You say you want to maintain your quality of life. That basically suggests to me a VERY slow taper and holding based on symptoms. I had a 7% cut and hold and I could feel the wd. In other words I cut from 1mg to 0.93 mg and I could not maintain my quality of living.

 

Don't get me wrong, I was functioning but the brain fog, insomnia, exhaustion headaches etc were persistent and I could do only the bare minimum expected of me at work and home. If you want a minimum sx taper you'll have to go extremely slow (and that does not guarantee no sx just a better chance of functionality) otherwise you'll have to make peace with the fact that you might not be the sharp tack and that's okay. It's okay to just be functional and get through the day.

 

I am currently doing a dry daily micro taper of 10% over 2 weeks using Bob07 method. Bob is an amazing help on this forum and his videos explain everything if you were considering his method https://benzodrytapermath.com/

 

There's no right or wrong tapering method just what you feel comfortable with.

 

This process is not necessarily hell for everyone. Especially if you take it slow you stand a better chance. I'm not going through hell but I'm definitely feeling wd and not having the quality of life I'm used to. I have been able to resume my studies but it's a struggle. At least I have been able to do manage my job and be somewhat functional at home. But I'm getting off these darn pills and awaiting the long-term rewards.

 

Switching doctors would be nice but I don't know if I really have that option. It's hard enough for find someone that prescribes here at all. Plus, if I go to one doctor pleading my case, there is nothing keeping him from communicating that I did this to my current doctor. Thanks for recommending Bob, it seems like he's the big dog around from what I can see. Thank you.

 

Regards,

Milagro

I don't understand why you're afraid of your doctors tattling on you. I know once they hook us on this kind of medicine, it's a kind of medically-induced subservience; this terrified me once I realized how physically dependent I was. But in reality, they're service providers and we're customers. I think you're free to switch between them at will, and to hold them to whatever standard of care you require.

 

Some people have a hard time realizing this, and maybe their care network is small or something. I switched PCPs in one day here in Massachusetts. I interviewed the new one, made him promise to keep me on clonazepam at my current dose "indefinitely", and then called my insurance to make the switch. He's been writing my script steady, and even written me scripts for a compounding pharmacy when I was trying different liquid formulas. If he ever tries to rush my taper (which he's never suggested), I know my health will be in jeopardy and I'll switch doctors again. This is the necessary level of self-advocacy, in my mind, to maintain functionality and a slow taper.

Not everyone lives in a highly populated region like MA.  Those who live in rural locations may have very limited options.  That's further complicated by health plans.

Not everyone lives in a highly populated region like MA.  Those who live in rural locations may have very limited options.  That's further complicated by health plans.

 

I completely understand. I found it much easier to change doctors thanks to so many doctors now adopting telehealth, even for new patients. I still suggest exploring alternative doctors; it doesn't hurt to shop around and a psyche NP might be a better fit (I've found that often psyche nurses seem to have more availability). Anything to take the pressure off the taper, I think, would be a boon.

 

I was tapering 9%/14 days only I couldn't keep it up, so now I'm looking at maybe 6-7%/14 days; at 6% I'm looking at 2+ years to taper. I want to keep my functionality; I'm slowly getting over my rush-to-the-finish mentality, it's just wasted suffering. Nerve repair takes as long as it takes and I'm realizing I can be functional or I can be sick, while it's happening. There's a spectrum but it's really not much more complicated and taper rate is the dial that dictates how sick I'll be. One way or another I'll be done with this medicine; I'm liking the slow approach more and more...

Not everyone lives in a highly populated region like MA.  Those who live in rural locations may have very limited options.  That's further complicated by health plans.

 

I completely understand. I found it much easier to change doctors thanks to so many doctors now adopting telehealth, even for new patients. I still suggest exploring alternative doctors; it doesn't hurt to shop around and a psyche NP might be a better fit (I've found that often psyche nurses seem to have more availability). Anything to take the pressure off the taper, I think, would be a boon.

 

I was tapering 9%/14 days only I couldn't keep it up, so now I'm looking at maybe 6-7%/14 days; at 6% I'm looking at 2+ years to taper. I want to keep my functionality; I'm slowly getting over my rush-to-the-finish mentality, it's just wasted suffering. Nerve repair takes as long as it takes and I'm realizing I can be functional or I can be sick, while it's happening. There's a spectrum but it's really not much more complicated and taper rate is the dial that dictates how sick I'll be. One way or another I'll be done with this medicine; I'm liking the slow approach more and more...

 

I'm willing to shop around, but I do not want to approach this taper as if I will be prescribed indefinitely until I actually am. Unless I can get confirmation that I can go as slow as I want, I have to act as if I only have about 600mgs. I started a 2.75 dry cut yesterday that I am going to do for 2 weeks. I'm just the cutting unscored pills into quarters for this week, though I may start mashing them up and doing it Bob style to really make sure I'm actually getting a quarter. I am still in a state of shock over this and all of these horror stories on here are making it seem like I only have a year of sanity left. My mind has begun being tempted as if I am terminal and have a bucket list.

 

Now, that pill count may jump to about 900 in late May, but I need to plan as if I only have 600. I am having trouble with the math and choosing a taper method because of how upset I am about this. I would even pay one of you to help me figure out a schedule for me. That's how serious I am about this.

 

I am more than thankful that you all have replied and are willing to help me.

 

As for the urban/rural situation, I live in the Greater Seattle area. There is no shortage of doctors, but I'm not going to act as if I have an excellent doctor like you until I get one. Then, I would be willing to approach the indefinite route. I don't want to seem like I am not taking your suggestion. I am absolutely am and think that it is a superior approach! I just may not have that luxury depending on how this goes. I have until early July until the doctor's taper begins.

 

Again, God Bless you all.

 

Regards,

Milagro

Hello Milagro Man.

 

Using a homebrew liquid made with whole fat, homogenized milk to taper clonazepam has worked well for many individuals.  Here’s a video that demonstrates the procedure one such individual followed:

 

(Might I encourage you NOT to use the spreadsheet included with the video? Many of our members get into trouble using spreadsheets or online tools developed by others. Instead, consider doing a symptom-based, just-right-for-you taper.  This means making “small enough” reductions in dose on a schedule that keeps your withdrawal symptoms tolerable. You monitor your symptoms and adjust the reduction amount and schedule as needed.)

 

To help others help you, would you please provide a bit more information?

• Am I correct that your current total daily dose is 3mg?  Are you experiencing any withdrawal symptoms at that dose?
  
• What is your current daily dosing schedule? (time and amounts)?
  
• Are your 1mg tablets scored?  (Given that you are on a relatively high dose of clonazepam, using a combination of pill-splitting and liquid titration to taper might be an option.)
  
• Have you taken a benzodiazepine before and stopped it?
  
• Are you taking or have you taken other psychotropic drugs (e.g. anti-depressants)?
  

 

That video is an excellent method but I cannot afford to throw out any like he does, especially at the beginning as I'd be throwing ~ 0.5mgs out. Is there any way I can feasibly do this without wasting? I have started cutting a quarter out of my 3rd 1mg dose and will continue this for two weeks.

 

If I use alcohol suspension will the solutions last longer and solve this problem? I am a former alcoholic but I doubt the 2ml of vodka is going to cause me to grow horns.

 

Regards,

Milagro

 

Regards,

Milagro

No need to panic.  Your stock of 600 mg will give you enough for a reasonably sane, 2+-year taper as long as you don't waste any.  You'd need to average cuts of around 0.5% a day, 3.5% a week - again, not an insane rate.  And if you get another 300 mg, the taper can be easily adjusted from wherever you are at.

 

Personally, I think it's probably easier to start with dry cuts now (might be more efficient too).  Your doses are large enough to make for easy weighing.  You can ponder if/how to do liquid later if you want.

 

Store the powder and pieces in a cool, dry place.  If you store it in the fridge, warm the jar to room temperature before opening the bottle.  If you have one of those little silica gel dry-packs that you trust, you might toss one in the bottle to absorb moisture.  There's probably one in the bottle you're currently using.  Keep it for the 'crumb' jar.

Please check out the link in my signature; I describe how to make a no-waste liquid clonazepam with a TINY alcohol dose per day (0.3ml ethanol/day or less) that lasts for months in the fridge, and I describe how to do a liquid/tablet hybrid taper so you use the minimum of the liquid and get the most from your tablets. Just click the 'My Klonopin Taper Tools & Techniques'. There is a link to a website which is repeated in the liquid/tablet hybrid post and the DMT post; it takes you to a form that will MAKE you a custom taper schedule! Like magic! No fee!

 

It will tell you how many days, and how many pills you'll use at your chosen reduction rate too (scroll to the bottom of your form results). These are guesses, because tapers change as we learn what our body can handle, but it will give you an idea of what each reduction rate will look like regarding these two details.

 

I feel like I'm repeating myself... did you check out that link in my signature? I can talk you through any of the steps of the liquid making or how to use the website to design a DMT taper schedule. But you've got to read the material first! 

Please check out the link in my signature; I describe how to make a no-waste liquid clonazepam with a TINY alcohol dose per day (0.3ml ethanol/day or less) that lasts for months in the fridge, and I describe how to do a liquid/tablet hybrid taper so you use the minimum of the liquid and get the most from your tablets. Just click the 'My Klonopin Taper Tools & Techniques'. There is a link to a website which is repeated in the liquid/tablet hybrid post and the DMT post; it takes you to a form that will MAKE you a custom taper schedule! Like magic! No fee!

 

It will tell you how many days, and how many pills you'll use at your chosen reduction rate too (scroll to the bottom of your form results). These are guesses, because tapers change as we learn what our body can handle, but it will give you an idea of what each reduction rate will look like regarding these two details.

 

I feel like I'm repeating myself... did you check out that link in my signature? I can talk you through any of the steps of the liquid making or how to use the website to design a DMT taper schedule. But you've got to read the material first! 

 

I hadn't whipped out Excel in a while and it took me 20 minutes just to do this simple math, but if I taper 10% every 14 days (not DMT but I am willing to do that) I would require 385mgs and two years to reach a daily dose of ~0.01275. Am I going to be able to get the dosage that precise is the true question here. Knowing this potential taper schedule and knowing that I have 385mgs, I feel more confident that I will not suffer as poorly as those who cold turkey or are detoxed. Now, I don't anticipate that I won't suffer. That is unrealistic and I'm going to have to handle that myself. I would usually never thank myself for rapid tapering in the past, but the fact that I suffered throughout the plague to stock up is in my favor, whether the doctor asks for a rapid taper or not.

 

I read your page and to be honest feel a little bit lost. I am going to try and comprehend it more thoroughly, but if I still don't quite get it, is it okay if I ask for some clarification?

 

Regards,

Milagro

 

I'm glad to hear you're able to use Excel to look at some of the numbers involved in a slow taper. It's especially confusing because the taper reduction by percent is done based on the current dose, so it's an inverse exponential curve. That is still hard for me to wrap my head around.

 

Take a look at http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/titration/titrationForm.php and try putting in your information; I suggest looking at a 7% reduction, combine with tablets, "first doses first" and for the liquid portion try 10 tablets to 40ml (if you've got 0.5mg pills, that'll be a 0.125mg/ml solution). Then press submit. You can use the browser back button to change any details and submit again to see different taper rates; scroll to the bottom to see the duration and tablets required for each taper approach. Jumping off point suggested for clonazepam is 0.025mg, FYI.

 

I'm happy to help you make sense of my taper guide posts, or any other questions you have.

Ask away!

I'm glad to hear you're able to use Excel to look at some of the numbers involved in a slow taper. It's especially confusing because the taper reduction by percent is done based on the current dose, so it's an inverse exponential curve. That is still hard for me to wrap my head around.

 

Take a look at http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/titration/titrationForm.php and try putting in your information; I suggest looking at a 7% reduction, combine with tablets, "first doses first" and for the liquid portion try 10 tablets to 40ml (if you've got 0.5mg pills, that'll be a 0.125mg/ml solution). Then press submit. You can use the browser back button to change any details and submit again to see different taper rates; scroll to the bottom to see the duration and tablets required for each taper approach. Jumping off point suggested for clonazepam is 0.025mg, FYI.

 

I'm happy to help you make sense of my taper guide posts, or any other questions you have.

Ask away!

 

Alright, I'm trying to do a 10% cut every 14 days for the first couple of months. Maybe that's too fast like you say but I can adjust accordingly if that's the case.

 

Quite frankly I can't figure out how to do this titration without wasting the medicine. If I could get a good method down that didn't waste any, I'd even consider a daily down taper. I read your guides but I can't figure out what is best for me and I'm worried I will make mistakes, measurement errors, lose potency from poor storage, etc. I would feel more confident if I could get this down and learn how to do it efficiently. I don't have time to spend hella time on this each day and I also don't want to become obsessed with it. I have OCD and I know that part of the withdrawal process is not hyperfocusing on the taper or the symptoms. I hope that makes sense.

 

A question you could easily answer. Have you heard of anyone jumping off </=.025 after a couple years and going through PAWS? I just don't want PAWS, man. I'm in a fortunate position to potentially avoid it and I can't have this happening to me in the next two years. My future is very dependent on my performance in the next two years. But, if I'm in for a ride even with the perfect DMT, I want to know.

 

Again, thank you so much for speaking with me.

 

Regards,

Milagro

Usually 0.025 is a pretty safe jump point, but if the last few cuts leading up to 0.025 was rough, then I suggest another cut or two. 

Alright, I'm trying to do a 10% cut every 14 days for the first couple of months. Maybe that's too fast like you say but I can adjust accordingly if that's the case.

 

Quite frankly I can't figure out how to do this titration without wasting the medicine. If I could get a good method down that didn't waste any, I'd even consider a daily down taper. I read your guides but I can't figure out what is best for me and I'm worried I will make mistakes, measurement errors, lose potency from poor storage, etc. I would feel more confident if I could get this down and learn how to do it efficiently. I don't have time to spend hella time on this each day and I also don't want to become obsessed with it. I have OCD and I know that part of the withdrawal process is not hyperfocusing on the taper or the symptoms. I hope that makes sense.

 

A question you could easily answer. Have you heard of anyone jumping off </=.025 after a couple years and going through PAWS? I just don't want PAWS, man. I'm in a fortunate position to potentially avoid it and I can't have this happening to me in the next two years. My future is very dependent on my performance in the next two years. But, if I'm in for a ride even with the perfect DMT, I want to know.

 

I'm a little confused. A liquid/tablet hybrid taper doesn't waste any medicine at all if you use the liquid recipe I describe; there are no discards. The method I use is clearly outlined in my signature linked posts, including links to the products I use to measure accurately; it's not perfectly written and I welcome feedback, but I think I got all the details in there. Tell me clearly your questions, and I'll try to answer them!

 

Your first and last paragraphs seem to contradict each other. In your first paragraph you're suggesting you'll start tapering at 10% and adjust based on symptoms; just by my observations, it seems like symptom-based tapering doesn't seem to work well for long-term users. Usually a few months to a year into their taper (depending on unknown factors), long-term users get met with the brunt of their WD symptoms; if they're doing a symptom-based taper, by that point they're usually down to half or less than their original dose, sometimes even just fumes.

 

You don't need to imagine the damage that happens when a part of our neurology accustomed to a full dose of tranquilizer suddenly realizes it's on half or less; you can just read around the forum about long term users who've cut at 10%+/14 days for months, then rather suddenly lost functionality, and often so quickly and so psychologically, they rarely reinstate appropriately to recover their health. I'm sorry to paint such a grim picture, it's only the one I'm seeing from other members; I think it's quite common to think we're the lucky one, and that is how I believe people get really messed up.

 

If your goal is to avoid PAWS, and if your goal is to remain highly functional throughout your taper, the only suggestion I have is to go SUPER slow. 5-7%/14 days is my suggested start rate, and I'd maintain this for at minimum 6 months to get a sense for what my body can handle and give my deeper neurology a chance to get with the program.

 

You can certainly jump off at less than 0.025mg, if that's important to you; it might feel necessary if you've rushed through the earlier parts of the taper and are hanging on to your last little dose to try to limit your symptoms, but I understand doses below this point are usually only psychologically effective. Avoiding protracted withdrawal has nothing to do with staying on non-therapeutic doses, and everything to do with maintaining a slow taper rate that your body can effectively and regularly recover from.

 

By my observation, long-term use complicates this taper rate question immensely, and in my mind, negates the possibility of a symptom-based taper until much much later in the taper.

 

The good news is that a percent-based reduction will have your dosage dropping the most in the first year of tapering; at a 6%/14 day reduction rate, you'll be at 1mg/day in 250 days, the entire taper will only require 672 mg of medicine, and will take a total of just under 3 years. But more importantly, you'll be going as fast, as safe, and as comfortably as I can possibly imagine for you.

 

I hope you'll take this advice seriously, but it is entirely your choice how you do this.