Stuck in tolerance and want to taper off my meds

I have been stuck in tolerance for a few months now. It all started with my dad being diagnosed with cancer and my husband left me because of how I was crying and feeling every day. I want to get stable before I taper I am on 4.5 mgs of klonopin a day I was on 3 mgs for 14 years and in 2017 I got it increased to 4.5. I posted on another blog and was told to stop feeling sorry for myself and just do it. I am scared I feel Terrible and I am trying to take care of my father and I am stuck. I know this blog is about tapering and I am a little off subject but I am so scared and my dr doesn’t care and there is no other drs that will help me. I feel like I will never get out of this hell. Please anyone with support or advise I would appreciate it I have no one my dad is too sick to help. Ty

Hello hatter,

In my opinion, you don't need to stop feeling bad for yourself. I hear you're in a difficult situation, and it sounds like you are feeling overwhelmed. If you are in tolerance withdrawal it may be best to begin tapering soon. This is the taper board; we can help you plan a taper here.

 

I'll say that I have no personal experience with tolerance withdrawal. I may not be wise to your situation like another buddy; a crossover or some other adjustment may be better in your situation, but I can advise on tapering clonazepam, as I've been doing that myself.

 

You're at a relatively high dose of clonazepam (K) and you've been on this a long time; you are wise to be cautious and to go slow. In my opinion the best doctor is one who will just keep prescribing while you taper at your own pace; it's unfortunate that doctors aren't more helpful, and thus the benzo recovery experience is often one of self-empowerment and self-advocacy. Don't let that discourage you; you can do this! 

 

Do you have a suitable pill splitter? The drug store ones are garbage in my opinion. If you have flat round tablets, you can stand them on-end in an aluminum splitter (like this: [nobbc]https://www.amazon.com/EqualSplit-Splitter-Crafted-Medical-Aluminum/dp/B07MH6XTL7[/nobbc]) and get perfect halves, and then quarters.

 

Given your long history of benzo use I recommend starting slow and stay slow with your reductions; a 0.25mg reduction from 4.5mg/day would be a 5.5% reduction, and at the gentler end of the spectrum. The cut will likely take a few days for you to feel increased WD symptoms, they should peak after around 6-9 days, and you may be back to where you are now but at a lower dose in 10-14 days; that's a classic cut-and-hold with clonazepam for most people. Hopefully this experience would give you an idea of how your body reacts to a cut-and-hold; it may be gentle, it may not. But I believe you can do this, especially at these higher dosages.

 

There is a theory of mine that long term users get delayed withdrawal effects. Please don't try to rush off this medicine, even though I understand that taking it is not solving all your emotional issues at this time; it's still likely a big crutch, physiologically and psychologically.

 

I think it can be easy to neglect how much our nervous system has adapted to the medicine, and for a long term user this adaptation can be very extreme. I believe the slower you can reduce, the less surprises you'll encounter down the road; long-term users seem to encounter new and evolving WD symptoms as their body activates different layers of their neurology, and sometimes this process takes many many months for the severity of their symptoms to develop. Not to scare you! Just to celebrate your caution.

 

And although this is the taper board, I just want to say, benzos are a delay tactic. So what's happening now in your emotional body is, by my perspective, simply a delayed reaction to your past. Unfortunately, when we use a psyche medication like benzos for a long time, we neglect to develop the natural coping skills that we need to manage our anxiety and other emotional states. The key to surviving benzo recovery, in my opinion, is to actively seek out and develop these missing coping skills! I highly advise you to consider this pursuit as a significant portion of your benzo recovery.

 

Folks that focus just on tapering and remain unaware or undeveloped in their self-awareness and emotional regulation, from my experience, seem to get stuck. They can't physically function without the medicine, and every cut becomes a nightmare. In my mind, there is a very real need in benzo recovery for psychotherapy, and for a maturation of self. These won't come from any pharmacology. Trauma-informed psychotherapy is ideal; self-help or nature exposure would be second best in my mind.

 

I hope this helps! I encourage you to take that 0.25mg cut when you feel ready, and to see what happens. I also recommend educating yourself about benzo recovery, benzo lies, taper rates, taper methods, etc. If you really are in tolerance, you're actually already in withdrawal, so the ship has sailed so to speak; now it may be just a question of how to navigate recovery through careful reductions and emotional maturity.

 

Please ask any questions, and also post around the forum! I really hope we can help you! 

Thank you that is what my plan was for my taper. With the first cut being .25. I was going to try to hold at that dose for 3 weeks and see if I could tolerate another cut of.25 then. I have been taking care of my dad so it isn’t going to be easy. My dr will keep giving me the meds so I should be okay there. I just am at enough is enough with these meds. Right now I am experiencing agoraphobia which really sucks and I am trying to figure out how to slowly get out of that position I love the outdoors and walking camping all that normally. I wish I could get some other services for what is going on but the dr I see they won’t help with other stuff unless you’re hospitalized and that is not a option. I appreciate you taking time out to talk to me.  I feel a lot better about it. Ty again.

I'm glad your doctor will keep supplying. I expect this be a multi-year process for you; just like trauma recovery, I think the first step is establishing as much stability as possible. Stable home. Stable finances. Stable prescriptions. Whatever you can manage, of course.

 

How long you hold is your choice; it might be easier in general to take smaller cuts more frequently, but that's up to you. I personally take a cut every single day; it's 0.64% of my current dose, which is a little aggressive (adds up to 9%/14 days); this is called a daily micro taper and I wrote a post about it in my signature under 'Tools & Techniques'.

 

I have agoraphobia too; I have for half a decade now. You could try small steps, like I've been. I went from walking just up the street and back (wearing a diaper), to 1 mile walks around the neighborhood (without a diaper!) in about 10 months. I can now drive short distances too, depending on my condition, but that started with lots and lots of rides with my wife driving and me just clutching my stomach and breathing slowly.

 

What about psychotherapy? Does your insurance cover this? EMDR can be really effective for trauma, but CBT or DBT might be more usefully if emotional-regulation is difficult.

 

Keep in mind the % of your cut is typically measured against the current dose. So 0.25mg reduction of 4.5mg is 5.5%. But if you cut 0.25mg again it will be out of 4.25mg, so this one is a 5.8% reduction; the next 0.25mg is 6.25%, and so on. Eventually with this linear reduction you'll probably reach a % reduction you won't like. Some people cut their pills smaller or get smaller pills (1/4 of a 0.5mg pill is 0.125mg, so you could get away with quite a few more cuts at this range).

 

I cut-and-held from 2mg down to 1.5, by 1/4 of my 0.5mg pills per 2 weeks; I hated but it worked. Now I use a liquid/tablet hybrid DMT. You don't need to worry about these details yet; just keep in mind, the pill cutting only works for so long and it's a bit of a rollercoaster. Someday, maybe sooner than later, it might be worth considering dry or wet titration methods so that you can fine-tune your reductions and smooth out the ride.

 

If you can be patient, I have no doubt you'll manage this and your father's care. I think your very brave and again, wise to be cautious. Slow and steady! 

Slow and steady is spot on. I want to add, that you need support to get through your current situation, with your dad and your husband leaving. Those are significant stresses, and involve trauma and a lot of pain.

 

This is completely independent of your tapering. That has been addressed.

 

You can look for support groups in your community for those caring for their parent, for divorce, and many of those are done on zoom, so you don't have to get stressed about having to go someplace. A good therapist with whom you can connect would also be very beneficial.

 

Don't isolate yourself at this time. Reach out and find support in your community, it will help to vent and share and you will know you are not alone, stuck in your trauma. Other people are going through the same things.

 

Think about self care. This involves activities that give you a break. Take a walk every day. Just do it. It will oxygenate your brain and heart, and relieve stress. Being outside is very beneficial.  Taking walks is very beneficial. Make your own well being just as important as your Dads. You don't have to sacrifice self care to care for your father. In fact, you need it to cope with his cancer diagnosis.

 

When you are overwhelmed, exhausted, and in pain, your cup is bone dry. DO things that fill your cup.

1. get support, the more the better.

2, practice self care, your well being is just as important as your dads.

3. Get a good therapist.

4. Recognize that your situation is very traumatic. Treat yourself and make decisions that will help you navigate it. Again, a great therapist is my best suggestion, as well as support groups to help you through this.

 

Please let us know if their is anything else we can do to support you.

So what if I took this approach slow and steady if I take my half mg pils and split them into 4 and just did 1 of the 4 pieces every few weeks would that be slower and possibly easier? I am all for taking it slow. Yes I am in a lot of depression over all this and I have good days and bad. I want to start my taper soon as far as cbt or dbt I can’t get that care unless I put myself in the hospital it is stupid how they do things in this town or any town for that matter. I just wanted to see if that would be a better taper for me and I won’t go too fast I have been on it so long and so scared I will never be myself again and I will miss things at 43 years old I have two children one graduating this year and one on her own. I just want to not miss important things in their lives. Thank you again for talking to me just to know I have someone who truly cares means a lot so ty to all who responds it means the world.

I suggest you deal with getting support and self care in place before continuing your taper. Those will help tremendously. My own therapist and pdoc told me the same things. Focus on stability in crisis and getting support, then take up cutting.

 

Just get them set up, you don't have to engage in them for a long time, but get those things in place that will help you with the trauma, and think of it as just as important as your taper.

 

Just a suggestion. You know yourself best.

Yeah actually I am not ready I was hitting my cbd vape when I had bad days but had to stop because of the drug interactions that could be a problem it was a very small dose of cbd but I guess I just can’t do that right now. I want to find support but I have been just ignored about it. Everyone says it is life and it happens and I should just not think about it this whole county and all

The others are just as bad. I am so lost and really trying to get in a stable place but it feels impossible. I have thought about going up on my klonopin my dr said the limit I can take is 6 a day and get stable and taper from there but then it will just be more. I have thought about going to the psych hospital or rehab. I have reached out to friends and family. They think I fake it. So yeah my life is a mess.

The biggest and worse mistake I made tapering was updosing when I was in crisis. I have found it horribly difficult to taper back down. I literally got stuck at the higher dose almost a year, because tapering was so difficult, I finally started making small slow cuts, but it is not easy.

 

I strongly encourage you not to updose due to trauma. It wont help, the answer to being in crisis is not more of the medication that trashed us to begin with.  Medication that is harming us is not going to get us through crisis. You experienced this with the CBD.  See support as your way out of the darkness, not medication.

 

As to rehab or a psych hospital, I have never seen anyone benefit from it when it comes to benzo's. The conventional action is to take you off of your benzo and give you several other psychiatric medications, which makes things worse.

 

We generally do not find the support we need from friends and family. They have no idea what we are going through with withdraw, and can't understand what is wrong with us.  Many of us don't even talk to them about it, they are tired of our "complaints." Your family/friend response is typical.

 

This is why I suggested finding support groups specific to your situations. Those people are or have gone through the same things, and will understand how traumatizing your situations are, not poopoo you off.  Just use google and see what is out there.

 

And not to beat a dead horse, but a good therapist will aid you immensely. You will finally have a safe place to vent all your pain and issues, and get the support you need from a professional who knows what they are doing.

 

Please be cautious. I know you are in pain, and want relief desperately. Updosing, rehab, or a psych hospital wont help you deal with trauma, or hold your hand as you talk about it.

 

 

Thanks for you kind words. I will keep everyone updated as of now I am not going to taper my meds. I will stay at the dose I am at and try to reach out for help. I don’t leave the house like I said as my agoraphobia has set in again. So I am just trying to think of a happy medium. So much on my plate and so many people saying just get over it. It hurts sorry for my rant. I am normally a very happy person not so down as I sound right now. Thank you for your help.  I will stay in touch.

There is virtual therapy and virtual support groups.  I understand how difficult it can be to get stuck in agoraphobia.

 

If nothing else, use the forums here like crazy, it at least is a place to vent.

 

Your going to get through this.

Clonazepam is highly potent so please don't updose (see Ashton's table).  Setting up a long term support system is a huge key in getting thru this.  I agree with the others.....get friend/family and extremely benzo wise (and competent) Dr. support,  as a proper taper will take quite awhile.

Breck135 good point about setting up long-term support system! But have you ever found a benzo wise doctor?! I haven't. I don't think other members have had much success getting that kind of support.

 

In my experience doctors get pretty confused and bullish when it comes to tapering benzos, especially clonazepam; the worst cases around the forum usually seem to be buddies following "doctors orders". So just a steadily prescribing doctor would be my suggestion; ideally one that is cooperative with any needed changes in tablet size or similar.

 

baddove thank you so much for joininng in here with all your great suggestions about support, self-care and dealing with family. I agree with all of it, especially getting a good therapist!

 

There's little to no benefit, in my mind, to updosing hatter. You've got a good plan for your first 5.5% cut, and when you're ready give it a go. You may be surprised how easy this first one will be. Eventually you'll need more precision techniques, but that may be a few months away as your first two or three 1/4 pill cuts look pretty moderate and I hear you want to go slow.

 

Reach out in the titration forum if you want help figuring out these future details, when that becomes necessary. Tapering clonazepam safely, in my experience, can take some special skills because it's so potent; as your dosage gets lower, we'll help you.