Author Topic: Support for Those Who React Badly to Diazepam  (Read 1036 times)

[Buddie]

Re: Support for Those Who React Badly to Diazepam
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2021, 07:02:43 pm »
Hello all,

I fit into this group.  When I crossed over to Valium I experienced some pretty big issues immediately.  Except for the depression and severe constipation, I didnít think it was anything other than Klonopin wds at the time.  I developed food allergies and got eczema rashes, blisters, just awful.  Then I got repeated sty infections in my eyes.  One swelled so bad into a boil that I still have a little scar tissue in my lower lid.  That was back in early 2019.   Had no clue about diazepam and the DAO enzyme issue back then.  Iím already histamine sensitive and have been since I was a child.  So this drug has done a number on me.  Oddly, as Iíve tapered down the histamine issues are only worse.  Youíd think they would get better, but maybe those DAO receptors need to heal.  Iíve become super sensitive to the fillers in the drug itself, and having allergic reactions to them even.  This was not the case when I was on Klonopin.  Iím now limited to only a dozen foods, maybe less.  The most recent allergy Iíve developed is to the sun 😭  I cannot tolerate the sun for the histamine issues go savage!  My throat closes and I get covered in hives and it flares up my rashes, get worse agitation and akathisia, anxiety goes through the roof, get worse flushes, and even less sleep.  It has seriously made my world so limited and much smaller.  Heartbroken. 

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[Buddie]

Re: Support for Those Who React Badly to Diazepam
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2021, 08:54:29 pm »
[...],
I just want to tell you that I am truly sorry.  All of that, every little bit, is awful.  You've walked through so much.  I'm sure you are weary.  It doesn't seem fair that some people seem to walk through taper relatively easily and many of us suffer so much.  I just wanted to send you love and a supportive hug.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Support for Those Who React Badly to Diazepam
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2021, 07:45:42 pm »
I fit into this group.  When I crossed over to Valium I experienced some pretty big issues immediately.  Except for the depression and severe constipation, I didnít think it was anything other than Klonopin wds at the time.  I developed food allergies and got eczema rashes, blisters, just awful.  Then I got repeated sty infections in my eyes.  One swelled so bad into a boil that I still have a little scar tissue in my lower lid.  That was back in early 2019.   Had no clue about diazepam and the DAO enzyme issue back then.  Iím already histamine sensitive and have been since I was a child.  So this drug has done a number on me.  Oddly, as Iíve tapered down the histamine issues are only worse.  Youíd think they would get better, but maybe those DAO receptors need to heal.  Iíve become super sensitive to the fillers in the drug itself, and having allergic reactions to them even.  This was not the case when I was on Klonopin.  Iím now limited to only a dozen foods, maybe less.  The most recent allergy Iíve developed is to the sun 😭  I cannot tolerate the sun for the histamine issues go savage!  My throat closes and I get covered in hives and it flares up my rashes, get worse agitation and akathisia, anxiety goes through the roof, get worse flushes, and even less sleep.  It has seriously made my world so limited and much smaller.  Heartbroken.

Welcome, my poor Unicorn! You certainly have deep empathy here, especially from me.

Let me apologize for not responding to your post sooner. I'm so glad that "Butterflies" did! She is the one who first mentioned the Valium vs DAO possibility, making me suspect that I was suffering more and more for that very reason as I continued to increase Valium intake during my transition from Xanax, following Ashton's Schedule very faithfully. This got me researching this whole issue and starting this thread.

Ironically, the reason I haven't posted anything yet is that I have been suffering from an experimental retry with Valium. Just to be absolutely sure that I wasn't misleading people in this thread. I backed up to a much lower dose than the one where allergic symptoms had become unbearable before, decreasing my xanax dose in proportion.

Well, shortly after midnight - after taking Valium the preceding day, I woke up having horrible reactions - dreadful nausea; painful, lumpy hives on my legs; intense itching (especially in my scalp); burning eyes; total nasal congestion; and a piercing headache. But all this after an even lower substitution of valium than before when I had stopped taking Valium because such symptoms had become unbearable.

After that pretty clear indication that Valium indeed causes a histamine surge in me (apparently I'm more sensitized to it than ever) - I've been too exhausted and foggy brained to function. Better now - the miserable symptoms have subsided. But now you have my total empathy and share your despair about this.

I would guess that symptoms getting worse the lower you taper could be because Valium has such a long half-life (up to 200 hours!) that it accumulates in your body as you continue to take more - but that is only a guess. I am no expert about this.

You mention that you were on Klonopin before. The only solution I can suggest is to seek help at [...]'s thread and blog - he has worked out careful plans to taper directly from Klonopin and is quite a nice person to work with:

Instructions for homebrew liquid K, liquid/tablet hybrids, DMT, etc...
http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=254653

I'm happy to share more personal details on my blog...
http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=252027.0

Unfortunately, I can't tolerate Klonopin for a different reason - it causes a "paradoxical reaction" in me - 100% insomnia - but without any other symptoms - nothing allergic/histaminic like Valium.

Unicorn, I wish you all the luck in the world, and a quick escape from this benzo torture chamber we're all struggling to get out of!

Dave
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 03:39:24 pm by [Buddie] »
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[Buddie]

Re: Support for Those Who React Badly to Diazepam
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2021, 08:34:44 am »
Does an antihistamine work for this?
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[Buddie]

Re: Support for Those Who React Badly to Diazepam
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2021, 03:57:52 pm »
Benzos are mast cell stabilisers.
Many ppl develop histamine probs when they come off.
I started a thread on MCAS on here if anyone is interested.
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[Buddie]

Re: Support for Those Who React Badly to Diazepam
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2021, 07:48:22 pm »
[...],
Was K. better for you?  I hate V.  I am depressed, no motivation to do anything, and feel so drugged up.  Being on it 6 weeks now, I'm hesitant to make a change and think I should just push through.  I know all of my symptoms are common withdrawl symptoms to any benzo.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Support for Those Who React Badly to Diazepam
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2021, 01:53:10 am »
Does an antihistamine work for this?

Yes, in the short term, Benadryl worked for me as far as quelling the allergic (histamine) reactions - it got rid of my serious nasal congestion, sneezing fits, and painful hives after I reinstated Valium experimentally. However, it's not a great solution in the long term - for me, at least.

One, used along with Valium, Benadryl only increases feeling "drugged out", lethargic, foggy brained, etc.

And two, it can eventually block too much histamine N-methyltransferase (HNMT), the other enzyme besides DAO (which Valium may suppress in many of us) that is essential in metabolically reducing histamine in the body, thus letting systemic histamine levels accumulate for another reason - causing a sufferer to take more and more Benadryl, the very thing that is blocking HNMT and raising their histamine levels. The one positive thing is that diphenhydramine (Benadryl) is not physically addictive like benzos. Once the allergen is eliminated, Benadryl can be stopped immediately without any major withdrawal that I know of.

I got no relief from other types of anti-histamines. However, other people may! As is often said, our metabolisms can be very different.

Some people suffer NO discomfort whatsoever from taking Valium, whereas others simply cannot tolerate it. I'm suggesting that histamine build-up is one potential explanation - this really seems to explain my own idiopathic reactions to Valium.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 08:57:30 pm by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Support for Those Who React Badly to Diazepam
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2021, 08:18:52 pm »
Was K. better for you?  I hate V.  I am depressed, no motivation to do anything, and feel so drugged up.  Being on it 6 weeks now, I'm hesitant to make a change and think I should just push through.  I know all of my symptoms are common withdrawal symptoms to any benzo.

These links might be of interest to you in regard to histamine and depression: 
https://www.low-histamine.com/blog/depression-histamine-connection
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/kiran-ram/causes-of-anxiety-and-depression_b_6327486.html (#5)
https://drruscio.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/HistamineHandout.pdf

Many other testimonies of histaminic allergy causing depression can be found online. I myself have suffered severe, incapacitating depression during the worst allergy seasons (it may not have been the antihistamines after all!), along with all the more typical allergy symptoms of itching, congestion, hives, poor sleep, etc.

VERY similarly, taking more and more Valium as I followed the Ashton protocol in transitioning from Xanax to Valium, I couldn't overcome an ever-increasing lethargy (feeling more and more "drugged up"), brain fog, and eventually a total absence of motivation or interest in anything (i.e., depression), while also experiencing increasingly severe itching all over, congestion, burning eyes and nasal passages - more typical symptoms of excess histamine. In the dead of winter! No other allergen present.

Here is a very technical report indicating that a form of the essential amino acid methionine is involved in the maintenance of HNMT (which may be reduced by antihistamines) - HNMT is one of the two enzymes that lower histamine levels in the body (the other being DAO, which Benadryl has proven in laboratory research to actually increase slightly):
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/85/5/1185/4633007#110960408 - Figure 2.

I have read many other less technical articles recommending methionine to moderate histamine levels, but never saw the metabolic process involved as shown in this report. Methionine can be purchased in most health food stores. When I was living in an area where I was especially allergic every summer, I took as much as 1000mg of methionine a day without any side effects.

However, in order to prevent it from degrading into homocysteine (a potentially harmful by-product of high-dose [500mg+] methionine metabolism), I have read in a number of articles that a combination of B6 (esp. as P5P), methyl-folate, and B12, or just TMG (trimethylglycine or "betaine" - also found in most health food stores) will convert homocysteine BACK into methionine (so intake of methionine can then be decreased).

I take no more than 250mg of TMG every other day at most - the tablets are usually 500mg, which I find way too much as that much makes me sleep all day (a moderate level of histamine is necessary for wakefulness, while ironically, too much may make you apathetic and depressed, and even fall into a miserable sleep). Though TMG is quite effective, the vitamins are probably much better nutritionally, and don't cause sleepiness.

And finally, lots of vitamin C acts as a good natural antihistamine.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 01:38:40 am by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Support for Those Who React Badly to Diazepam
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2021, 08:25:24 pm »
I'm sad to see [...], aka Dave, is gone from the forum. I lost track of this thread, but I hope that his work here will be support for diazepam users who are noticing DAO/histamine issues; the problem is well supported anecdotally, and in this tapering business, I think anecdote might be all we have to work with sometimes. From anecdote to self-investigation to self-understanding.
Farewell Dave; thanks for your hard work.  :smitten:
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.