NMDA antagonism and benzodiazepine withdrawal - the holy grail has been found

This is pretty much the holy grail for those of us suffering from benzodiazepine addiction. More information can be found here: Edit - Link Removed

 

The basic gist is that if you beat NMDA into submission, GABA gets up-regulated, which reduces tolerance, withdrawal, and ultimately addiction.

 

I have been doing 60mg of Delsym twice a day for about two days now and I cut my Valium dose by 25% - this isn't science fiction and there are many actual studies linked to in there that are articles showing what NMDA antagonism can do for not just benzodiazepines but just about any other addiction you can have including cigarettes.

 

While Valium has a longer half-life than the other benzos, if I were to have cut my dose by 25% I would be experiencing withdrawals by now (its been 14 hours since I was due to take my 20mg and I only took 10mg - I just took my regularly scheduled 20mg dose and I'm so tired that I feel I could go even lower but don't want to push it).

 

NMDA up-regulation is largely what is responsible for benzodiazepine, opiate, alcohol, and nicotine tolerance, addiction, and withdrawals. AMPA plays a small role in the case of benzodiazepines but if you experience problems, Topamax can help with the AMPA side of things.

 

Its definitely worth a read at worst, a trial at best. Dextromethorphan in these doses is also safe long term. Note that Delsym is the only brand because it is extended-release dextromethorphan - 60mg of Delsym means that 15mg gets released into your system every 4 hours for a total of 12 hours of NMDA antagonism, which is why you take it twice a day.

 

Even my morning cigarette knocked me on my behind this morning. I was so dizzy it was like I had never smoked a cigarette. However, it did not have the usual effect of increasing my pulse like such a rush normally would and mind you, I hadn't taken my Valium for the day either.

 

There is an alzheimer's drug called memantine discussed thoroughly throughout that thread as well. This drug is so effective that it is also being investigated as a means of getting panic disorder under control without the use of narcotic medications or anti-depressants.

 

Definitely check it out and I will keep everyone updated on my progress.

I'm not saying your information is right or wrong but two days is way too early after a cut to tell if you're actually seeing benefit.  I didn't get withdrawal symptoms until a full week after I stopped Valium and I almost cold turkey'ed it.

I have been doing 60mg of Delsym twice a day for about two days now and I cut my Valium dose by 25% - this isn't science fiction and there are many actual studies linked to in there that are articles showing what NMDA antagonism can do for not just benzodiazepines but just about any other addiction you can have including cigarettes.

 

While Valium has a longer half-life than the other benzos, if I were to have cut my dose by 25% I would be experiencing withdrawals by now (its been 14 hours since I was due to take my 20mg and I only took 10mg - I just took my regularly scheduled 20mg dose and I'm so tired that I feel I could go even lower but don't want to push it).

 

Even my morning cigarette knocked me on my behind this morning. I was so dizzy it was like I had never smoked a cigarette. However, it did not have the usual effect of increasing my pulse like such a rush normally would and mind you, I hadn't taken my Valium for the day either.

 

Well, keep us posted, but becasue of diazepam's long half life, I never feel the effects a dose reductions for 8-10 days.  Several times I have forgotten to take my daily dose completely, and taken it 24 hours later, and never felt any effects.  But..if I just go from 9 mg/day down to 8.5, I will definitely experience withdrawal/rebound after 8-10 days.

 

But thanks for posting this info anyway.  I definitely will follow up on it

 

 

 

Hi Ethereal,

 

The medication you are talking about is a cough medicine which is meant to be taken in the short term only.  It also comes along with a host of potential side effect listed below in the link I have provided.

 

http://www.webmd.com/drugs/drug-13570-Delsym+Oral.aspx?drugid=13570&drugname=Delsym+Oral

 

This link also states that this product should be used in the short term only.  There is no easy way out for any of us suffering from benzo w/d, so to suggest that this cough syrup is the "Holy Grail" for benzo suffers in potentially dangerous, to say the least.  It has interections with several A/D and MAOI's which some of our members use and is certainly not prescribed for benzo w/d.  Members are welcome to do there own reseach regarding your statements (I had to remove your link as it opened up a live chat forum) but I would warn them to be very careful about trying anything like this to aid them in w/d, especially with a medication of this nature.  I also agree with Ryan and Builder that due to Valiums long half-life it is still far too early to proclaim that taking a medication not indended for any purpose other than clearing up a cough has helped you.

Hello

 

 

 

Delsym is a NMDA antagonist (like PCP) which can result in euphoira, lack of coordination, apathy and disorientation.

 

Keep it simple don't try any snake oil remedies unless you have nothing to loose (as in your Brain is already Fried).

 

A simple and proven way to become BENZO FREE and healthy without potential damage from other drugs is to taper your Benzo slow and low to the last dose!

 

 

Teakettle

 

While I am using DXM right now, it is only a stop-gap until my memantine gets here, which is not contraindicated with anything. Memantine is the ideal way to go about NMDA antagonism but its a rather expensive drug to get a prescription for in the states. In any case, one of the case studies directly involves diazepam and NMDA antagonists and shows that when administered an NMDA antagonist there was no addiction, tolerance, or withdrawal, with diazepam. That pretty much seals the deal right there as for whether or not this will work - and they've also shown that NMDA antagonists up-regulate GABA and as we all know (or should know), GABA down-regulation is what causes so many problems with benzodiazepine withdrawal.

 

Anyway there are many people who have found great benefit from using NMDA antagonists and I thought that I would share.

 

As for half life and such non-sense, trust me, my body eliminates things at a much more rapid rate than your average person. I would definitely be feeling the effects of withdrawal by now.

 

As for the side effects, at this level there haven't been any to speak of at all. The only "side effect" I've noticed is that I'm much more sensitive to my valium than I was before starting this plan.

 

I will keep everyone posted about my progress over the next weeks.

 

As for half life and such non-sense, trust me, my body eliminates things at a much more rapid rate than your average person. I would definitely be feeling the effects of withdrawal by now.

 

 

 

Non-sense   

 

I truly hope you're not going to be humbled like some others have, you won't like withdrawal I guarantee you that.

 

Amano

I just would like links to these studies. I've already PM'd for the link in the OP, but I missed that it was a chat forum--that could make it hard to figure out, unless it is an archive.

 

And even if your body eliminates things rapidly--diazepam effectively has a 200 hour half life. Even if your body was working four times as fast, you wouldn't even be at the half your dose. Plus, you indicate that you've made some substantial drops rather quickly in the past without problems.

 

All I'm saying is that the data is not in, yet. I hope you succeed, but don't get too excited too quickly. You do not want to set yourself up for disappointment.

 

That said, unless you are taking more than the normal cough dose, you're probably not doing yourself any harm.

I'm not trying to crap on your point because I'm actually interested in what you're saying.  But your body cannot metabolize diazepam in two days.  My metabolism is so fast that when I recently had to get local anesthesia, the doctor had to shoot me up every 10 minutes because he said I was metabolizing it faster than anyone he had ever seen.  It still took me a week to feel the effects of quitting valium.  Also, once before I quit I left town and forgot to bring my drugs and I went four days without taking it and had no effect.  This is why I was shocked when I went into severe withdrawal a week after stopping the drug.

As for half life and such non-sense, trust me, my body eliminates things at a much more rapid rate than your average person. I would definitely be feeling the effects of withdrawal by now.

 

 

I would hardly call a medically proven fact "nonsense".  And as you have absolutely no idea how quickly some of our other members metabolize this drug, it is disingenuous of you to suggest that you eliminate Valium at a more rapid rate.  As trlkly has already pointed out, even if your body was working at an extremley rapid rate, you would still only be at half your dose.

 

I would also like to point out that it is not GABA that is down-regulated, it is the GABA receptors themselves.  I had my GABA levels tested at end of my taper and they were at a perfectly normal level; however, it is my (and everybody else who has battled the benzo beast) GABA receptors that need time to heal and learn to do there job again, without the aid of a benzo. So you can produce as much GABA as you like, but this does not mean that your receptors will be up to the task just yet.

 

 

Dooode.  Seriously be careful.

 

I didnt think I went thru any w/d when I missed a dose or took it late, which I did for two years...til I educated myself and realized how miserable I had been---total emotional rollercoaster except there were no real true highs, but deep dark lows

 

 

be safe please!!

 

Im totally down for a miracle cure, but so far I have only found band-aids

My body got to where it would metabolize Klonopin very fast, I suppse.. I would get a drug test and nothing would show up, not even the klonopin, I'm sure there are other reasons. I would have inter-dose like crazy on it.

 

Keryn.

Wow, our own on line live animal science project! I for one am intrigued! I haven't heard about the nmda antagonists really working but it sure will be interesting to see what happens.  May the force be with you.

So how's it going? Are you still not feeling any withdrawals? Or, if you are, are they tolerable?

Hey EtherealRemnant

 

Is the Delsym twice a day still working?

Intentionally consuming more than the recommended dosage of Delsym may result in euphoria, lack of coordination, apathy and disorientation. This is due to dextromethorphan as well as its pharmacologically-active metabolite dextrorphan, both dissociative drugs that work as NMDA receptor antagonists the same way nitrous oxide (N2O), ketamine (Special K), and phencyclidine (PCP) do. Because of the abuse potential, many pharmacies and large retail chains have begun taking precautions such as restricting sales to those under age 18 and limiting the number of sales of dextromethorphan-containing products per customer.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delsym

My body got to where it would metabolize Klonopin very fast, I suppse.. I would get a drug test and nothing would show up, not even the klonopin, I'm sure there are other reasons. I would have inter-dose like crazy on it.

 

Keryn.

 

I'm still on .875 klonopin/day.  Had a blood test recently, and NO klonopin showed up, but I'm sure there was still klonopin in my system.  I was told that you have to have specific blood test run in order for K to show up.