Sleep and GABA depletion

This is why I'm taking GABA. I know that just because my receptors aren't working doesn't mean that my body isn't producing any; but I'm thinking maybe if I take more, somehow that will help, like taking vitamin C even if I'm eating oranges. 

 

 

American Academy of Sleep Medicine

AASM | 11/11/2008

 

 

 

… A revealing new study explains why your brain may be unable to put the brakes on our thoughts. It links the problem to low levels of a brain chemical.

The chemical is called gamma-aminobutyric acid. GABA is the most common inhibitory transmitter in the brain. It is the brain’s “brake fluid.” GABA decreases or stops the transmission of nerve impulses.  A new study shows that GABA levels are reduced by 30 percent in adults with chronic primary insomnia. The study was published in the Nov. 1 issue of the journal Sleep.

“GABA is reduced in the brain of individuals with insomnia, suggesting over activity is present,” said principal investigator Dr. John Winkelman. He explained that low GABA levels create an imbalance of brain activity. This “may lead to an inability to shut down waking signals in the brain,” he said.  If your GABA levels are low, then your mind can’t slow down. It may race forward at full speed even when it is time to sleep.

 

 

The following is an excerpt from  http://www.denvernaturopathic.com/news/GABA.html

I’ve pulled portions that are of interest to me.  If you want to read more, read the link.

 

Causes of GABA deficiency

GABA receptor function may be reduced because of a genetic polymorphism in the GABA receptor that reduces the efficiency of GABA neurotransmission, the presence of GABA receptor inhibitors (i.e., benzos), or low serotonin levels. Serotonin is a positive regulator of GABA-GABA receptor interaction. ….An inadequate GABA response may lead to an extended state of excitement and electrical stimulation in the brain. (brain zaps…vibrations…)

GABA deficiency can be linked to anxiety disorders such as panic attacks, seizure disorders like epilepsy, and numerous other conditions including addiction, headaches, Parkinson's Syndrome, and cognitive impairment. GABA's role is that of the primary inhibitory neurotransmitter and functions by down-regulating neurotransmission.

 

Hi Ginger,

 

I moved this to Chewing the Fat, it looks like something there could be some interesting discussion on.  Thanks for providing your reference links.

 

Pam

Hi Ginger,

 

 

if the GABA binding sites on your GABA receptor have been lessened in number, then regardless of how much GABA you put it, it will make no difference,  there is nowhere for the GABA to bind to.  It's like having 10,000 eggs instead of 1,000, if you only have 20 baskets you're going to have a surplus of eggs with nowhere to go.

 

 

 

Also, GABA doesn't cross the blood brain barrier unless it is damaged.

 

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?doi=101274

 

 

Serotonin and its metabolite melatonin play a major role in sleep, perhaps engaging in activities which naturally raise levels of these neurotransmitters might help sleep?

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2077351/

While this is true, we still aren't certain that there are no sites--just broken ones that might accidentally grab on. Especially later on in withdrawal.

 

Not crossing the blood brain barrier is the bigger problem. But that can be remedied by increasing GABA in other ways.

 

The big question is--if you put too much GABA in, can it be a problem? I know that glutamate, glutamine and GABA are all converted to one another in the body. And if excess GABA is converted to glutamate--well, its excitatory effect not going to be pleasant in withdrawal.

 

Yes, I have spent quite a lot of time thinking about this, why do you ask?

While this is true, we still aren't certain that there are no sites--just broken ones that might accidentally grab on. Especially later on in withdrawal.

 

Not crossing the blood brain barrier is the bigger problem. But that can be remedied by increasing GABA in other ways.

 

The big question is--if you put too much GABA in, can it be a problem? I know that glutamate, glutamine and GABA are all converted to one another in the body. And if excess GABA is converted to glutamate--well, its excitatory effect not going to be pleasant in withdrawal.

 

Yes, I have spent quite a lot of time thinking about this, why do you ask?

 

Which methods of increasing GABA are you referring to?

 

Would it not matter how much GABA is put in if it doesn't doesn't cross the BBB? It is only anabolized and catabolized in the brain.

 

 

 

http://www.benbest.com/science/anatmind/anatmd10.html

 

http://memorize.com/neuro-neurotransmitters/awill

Hi Ginger,

 

 

if the GABA binding sites on your GABA receptor have been lessened in number, then regardless of how much GABA you put it, it will make no difference,  there is nowhere for the GABA to bind to.  It's like having 10,000 eggs instead of 1,000, if you only have 20 baskets you're going to have a surplus of eggs with nowhere to go.

 

 

 

Also, GABA doesn't cross the blood brain barrier unless it is damaged.

 

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?doi=101274

 

 

Serotonin and its metabolite melatonin play a major role in sleep, perhaps engaging in activities which naturally raise levels of these neurotransmitters might help sleep?

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2077351/

 

Racing thoughts = low GABA. I've had racing thoughts my whole life, since I was a child. So I theorize that I've always had less GABA than a normal person; hence my reason for taking a supplement. There's some research that suggests GABA and other supplements can cross the BBB with a B6 infusion. I take B6 as well.

 

Thanks for the link re: increasing seratonin & melatonin. I do them all. Please see my blog for details.

 

ginger

 

 

While this is true, we still aren't certain that there are no sites--just broken ones that might accidentally grab on. Especially later on in withdrawal.

 

Not crossing the blood brain barrier is the bigger problem. But that can be remedied by increasing GABA in other ways.

 

The big question is--if you put too much GABA in, can it be a problem? I know that glutamate, glutamine and GABA are all converted to one another in the body. And if excess GABA is converted to glutamate--well, its excitatory effect not going to be pleasant in withdrawal.

 

Yes, I have spent quite a lot of time thinking about this, why do you ask?

 

Which methods of increasing GABA are you referring to?

 

Would it not matter how much GABA is put in if it doesn't doesn't cross the BBB? It is only anabolized and catabolized in the brain.

 

 

 

http://www.benbest.com/science/anatmind/anatmd10.html

 

http://memorize.com/neuro-neurotransmitters/awill

 

The two I am familiar with are GABA prodrugs (like L-theanine), which tend to increase your natural production, and special drugs formulated to cross the BBB and then be converted to GABA, like picamilon.

 

Not that I've tried either one, but supposedly they can be helpful to some in withdrawal.

 

As for the last part, you're right that conversion is unlikely with actual GABA. I was worrying about taking too much of the stuff that does cross the BBB. By analogy, I know that taking too much melatonin can be detrimental, as it will get converted to other chemicals if it is not used.

I should have stated that I can't take melatonin as it speeds me up pretty badly. I take l-theanine though. I take a lot of stuff.

ginger

Half of your remaining sxs are listed as side effects of lamictal,  do you think that might have anything to do with your PW?

Thats what I thought. In an attempt to prove that, I tapered over 8 months from 400 to 100 mgs. Nothing changed, except that I damn near died of mania. I'm back up to 400 now. With everything else going on in my life, I can't risk another manic episode like that last one.  So I'm holding.

I should have stated that I can't take melatonin as it speeds me up pretty badly. I take l-theanine though. I take a lot of stuff.

ginger

 

How much melatonin did you take? The initial therapeutic dose is quite small: only 0.3 mg, but most supplements seem to want to give you at least 1mg, and more likely 3 or 6. My one psychiatrist who was benzo aware pointed out that, with melatonin, often less is more.

 

If you want to try the smaller dose, look for pills that say they are 300mcg. There are 1000mcg in a 1mg, so that means 0.3mg. And I originally split those pills in half.

I took half of what was recommended, then the recommended amount, then double the amount; I know a few normal people who have the same reaction to it so I didn't bother trying again.