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C/T Off Ambien - No Problems


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My signature tells my story.  After suffering a sudden onset of tinnitus Labor Day weekend of 2020, I was poly-drugged for anxiety, depression, and insomnia.  After 4 months of nightly Ambien 6.5 CR I was suffering from major cog-fog and dreadful anxiety, which I think were mostly due to interdose withdrawals from Ambien.  With the help of my psych, and advice I received on this forum, I decided to tackle the Ambien first.  I did a very short two-night taper (2.5mg) and then C/T'd on January 5, 2021.  I was prescribed 25mg Trazedone to offset the possible insomnia from cutting Ambien.  But that insomnia never happened.  Between the Trazedone and the 5mg of Valium, I was able to cruise right through the Ambien C/T.  It has now been 2.5 months and I am still sleeping well while still continuing my Valium and Lexapro tapers.  I use 12.5mg of Trazedone a few times a week to help with sleep.  Within days after my Ambien C/T, my cog-fog disappeared, and my dreadful anxiety and depression began to lift.  I am convinced that most of my symptoms were caused by Ambien, or the combination of Ambien and Xanax/Ativan.

 

Some on this forum have said that getting off Z drugs is just as tough as getting off benzos.  Even my psych thought that getting off Ambien would be more difficult for me than my benzo withdrawal.  But that was not my experience - surprisingly, I had really no problems at all.  I actually have REM sleep now with mostly nice dreams, and am so glad to be off Ambien.  With this success story, it is my desire to provide hope to others who worry about getting off Z drugs.  It is not always bad.  If you are on a combination of benzos and Z drugs, my advice would be get off the Z drug first as it will only delay and complicate your benzo withdrawal.  This advice is consistent with Ashton.

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Thank you for sharing your experience, I had the same with Ambien, it was much easier for me than Klonopin.  I used to tell members that saving the z-drug to taper last was a good way to go but I've changed my mind because like you I feel it complicates things and getting rid of it really helped get rid of my interdose withdrawal, inner trembling and gut wrenching depression.

 

I'm so glad you're Ambien free, sleep is so deeply satisfying and restorative for me now, life is good.

 

 

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Ambien is a drug that only affects the a1 subunit of the GABA A Receptors. Other Z-Drugs hit them all, just like a Benzo does.

 

There is a chemical difference between a Z-Drug like Zopiclone, and a benzo like Alprazolam (Xanax), but the results are exactly the same. Both have similar effects, both have similar side effects, and both have similar half-lives. They both hit the exact same receptors.

 

Ambien is the outlier. It only hits the a1 subunit, and the half life is very short (I believe it's 2hr instead of 5hr like Zopiclone). Due to that fact, it is likely to have less withdrawal side effects, although many people suffer long term insomnia with it.

 

Personally I wish, if I had been given a Z-Drug, that it would have been Ambien. But ideally you don't want to be on ANYTHING that is benzo like.

 

Your situation is that you were on a Benzo, which was covering a lot of the loss of the Ambien drug.

 

I have never used a Benzo, but I was on Zopiclone for 1 month, and it is the worst thing that has ever happened to me. It took me 4 months for me to be able to start sleeping on my own for 4-5hr, and it's a broken sleep.

 

I am thankful that I am recovering (albeit slowly), and I have spent thousands on supplements (which I am still taking now), devices to help you sleep, and even Cannabis, which is something I was never averse to, but never thought I would ever bother trying.

 

It all helps, and some on here are having a 10x worse experience. I too, was on Trazadone for about 2 weeks, and while I could at the end, get 5-6hr with it, I was useless the entire day with it.

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I've noticed many members have more difficulty with Zopiclone and wondered why, thank you for explaining how it works.
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Andros:

 

You are correct that when I C/T off Ambien I was taking 5mg Valium all at bedtime, so yes it was covering up the loss of the Ambien.  This was the strategy recommended by my psych.  What was remarkable to me was high quickly a cluster of symptoms just stopped after the Ambien C/T, in particular cog-fog and waking up with a feeling of dread.  I am still tapering off the Valium, now down to 1mg taken at bedtime, and am still sleeping well.  I actually slept 7.5 hours uninterrupted last night and awakened to happy dreams.

 

I have seen some forum members recommend that the benzo should go before the Z drug, but the Ashton Manual is pretty clear about this.  She recommends not using any Z drugs to help with sleep when tapering off a benzo, which means you really need to taper off the Z drug first.

 

I always thought that all the Z drugs were pretty much the same, so it is interesting how Zopiclone affects different receptors.  I'm sorry you got on that one.  Sounds like it has been an ordeal getting off.

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I've noticed many members have more difficulty with Zopiclone and wondered why, thank you for explaining how it works.

 

Pamster, it was your advice I followed, which was affirmed by my psych. That advice was to convert both my Ativan and Ambien over to an equivalent Valium dose, and get off the Ambien first.  That was great advice that worked well for me, so thank you.  My Valium taper has been going well so far, except for just killer tinnitus.  I had a little rebound anxiety today for the first time in like a month, so I might slow it down a bit.  I have been cutting 0.5mg/week.

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I'm grateful your Dr was in agreement, it can be difficult to find medical professionals who will listen, you're very lucky.  Slowing down sounds like a good idea, many members say the reductions can get difficult at the end and they need to slow down. 

 

I'm sorry to hear about your tinnitus, that seems to be the last to leave for many members, I hope it eases for you soon.

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I've noticed many members have more difficulty with Zopiclone and wondered why, thank you for explaining how it works.

 

Pamster, it was your advice I followed, which was affirmed by my psych. That advice was to convert both my Ativan and Ambien over to an equivalent Valium dose, and get off the Ambien first.  That was great advice that worked well for me, so thank you.  My Valium taper has been going well so far, except for just killer tinnitus.  I had a little rebound anxiety today for the first time in like a month, so I might slow it down a bit.  I have been cutting 0.5mg/week.

 

Based on everything that I've read, you did it the right way.

 

I don't even know why Zopiclone exists. They might as well give people Xanax. But shockingly, there are people that can tolerate both, and can even cold turkey either one with minimal sides. I sometimes wonder how many people are actually negatively affected, but it seems that it's a small number. There's like 3 million people on Benzos and who knows how many on Z-Drugs, but if all of them suffered the way we did, it would be an epidemic.

 

I guess I sort of lucked out? I started getting side effects by the end of the first week on this stuff, and by the end of the 2nd week it was hell on earth. By the end of the 3rd and 4th weeks, I legit wanted to die every day.

 

It could have been worse: I could have had zero sides................until trying to get off the drug, which seems to be what happens to people on benzos with longer half lifes.

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My signature tells my story.  After suffering a sudden onset of tinnitus Labor Day weekend of 2020, I was poly-drugged for anxiety, depression, and insomnia.  After 4 months of nightly Ambien 6.5 CR I was suffering from major cog-fog and dreadful anxiety, which I think were mostly due to interdose withdrawals from Ambien.  With the help of my psych, and advice I received on this forum, I decided to tackle the Ambien first.  I did a very short two-night taper (2.5mg) and then C/T'd on January 5, 2021.  I was prescribed 25mg Trazedone to offset the possible insomnia from cutting Ambien.  But that insomnia never happened.  Between the Trazedone and the 5mg of Valium, I was able to cruise right through the Ambien C/T.  It has now been 2.5 months and I am still sleeping well while still continuing my Valium and Lexapro tapers.  I use 12.5mg of Trazedone a few times a week to help with sleep.  Within days after my Ambien C/T, my cog-fog disappeared, and my dreadful anxiety and depression began to lift.  I am convinced that most of my symptoms were caused by Ambien, or the combination of Ambien and Xanax/Ativan.

 

Some on this forum have said that getting off Z drugs is just as tough as getting off benzos.  Even my psych thought that getting off Ambien would be more difficult for me than my benzo withdrawal.  But that was not my experience - surprisingly, I had really no problems at all.  I actually have REM sleep now with mostly nice dreams, and am so glad to be off Ambien.  With this success story, it is my desire to provide hope to others who worry about getting off Z drugs.  It is not always bad.  If you are on a combination of benzos and Z drugs, my advice would be get off the Z drug first as it will only delay and complicate your benzo withdrawal.  This advice is consistent with Ashton.

 

That was my experience too.

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I agree that it appears not everybody has the same experience with Z drugs, I’ve chatted to people who have been on them for over a year and come off them with no significant side effects. But there does seem to be a portion of the population to whom the drugs have a very extreme effect on their brains and nervous system.

 

This page on psychology Wiki has a great description of Zopiclone, and probably the best one I’ve found which explains the drug and it’s extreme likeness to benzos, how it works on the body, with some studies showing withdrawal can be more extreme than a benzo, it also cites one study which showed evidence of extreme withdrawal symptoms after just seven days of use. If I’d been able to read this before I took them I would never have touched the damn things.

 

Here is the link for the page:

 

https://psychology.wikia.org/wiki/Zopiclone

 

 

This is one quote from the site which I found quite eye opening..

 

‘Zopiclone, a benzodiazepine-like drug was introduced and initially promoted as having less dependence and withdrawal than traditional benzodiazepine drugs. However, zopiclone may have an even greater addictive potential than benzodiazepines and has been described as a "benzodiazepine in disguise".[74][75][76] Tolerance to the effects of zopiclone can develop after a few weeks. Long term use should be avoided. Abrupt withdrawal particularly with prolonged and high doses can in severe cases cause seizures and delirium.[77][78]

 

Publications in the British Medical Journal do not give any evidence to the claim that zopiclone has a low dependence potential. In fact, physical dependence and recreational abuse and withdrawal syndromes similar to those seen in benzodiazepine withdrawal are frequently encountered. Withdrawal symptoms included anxiety, tachycardia, tremor, sweats, flushes, palpitations, derealisation, and further insomnia.[79] Suspected withdrawal convulsions during detoxification from zopiclone has been reported, however the individual was a high dose zopiclone misuser.[80]

 

The risk of dependency on zopiclone when used for less than 2 weeks or only used occasionally is low.[81] However, this is disputed by one study of low dose zopiclone taken for only 7 nights. It found that discontinuation of zopiclone caused significant rebound insomnia. Furthermore when midazolam taken for 7 nights was discontinued no rebound insomnia occurred suggesting that zopiclone may have even more significant problems of tolerance and dependence than the benzodiazepines.’

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My signature tells my story.  After suffering a sudden onset of tinnitus Labor Day weekend of 2020, I was poly-drugged for anxiety, depression, and insomnia.  After 4 months of nightly Ambien 6.5 CR I was suffering from major cog-fog and dreadful anxiety, which I think were mostly due to interdose withdrawals from Ambien.  With the help of my psych, and advice I received on this forum, I decided to tackle the Ambien first.  I did a very short two-night taper (2.5mg) and then C/T'd on January 5, 2021.  I was prescribed 25mg Trazedone to offset the possible insomnia from cutting Ambien.  But that insomnia never happened.  Between the Trazedone and the 5mg of Valium, I was able to cruise right through the Ambien C/T.  It has now been 2.5 months and I am still sleeping well while still continuing my Valium and Lexapro tapers.  I use 12.5mg of Trazedone a few times a week to help with sleep.  Within days after my Ambien C/T, my cog-fog disappeared, and my dreadful anxiety and depression began to lift.  I am convinced that most of my symptoms were caused by Ambien, or the combination of Ambien and Xanax/Ativan.

 

Some on this forum have said that getting off Z drugs is just as tough as getting off benzos.  Even my psych thought that getting off Ambien would be more difficult for me than my benzo withdrawal.  But that was not my experience - surprisingly, I had really no problems at all.  I actually have REM sleep now with mostly nice dreams, and am so glad to be off Ambien.  With this success story, it is my desire to provide hope to others who worry about getting off Z drugs.  It is not always bad.  If you are on a combination of benzos and Z drugs, my advice would be get off the Z drug first as it will only delay and complicate your benzo withdrawal.  This advice is consistent with Ashton.

 

That was my experience too. I stopped Ambien after my Valium crossover.

 

However, I also stopped Ambien easily in my late 30's after about 2 years use. I cut 5 mg pills in half and added melatonin over the course of several weeks. I then stoppped the Ambien and just used melatonin. I had a few days of disrupted sleep and then sleep returned to normal. I was prescribed the Ambien to treat Nocturnal Panic Attacks caused by PTSD. I don't know if I was just lucky or what, but really didn't find it too difficult unlike benzos which are hell.

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I agree that it appears not everybody has the same experience with Z drugs, I’ve chatted to people who have been on them for over a year and come off them with no significant side effects. But there does seem to be a portion of the population to whom the drugs have a very extreme effect on their brains and nervous system.

 

This page on psychology Wiki has a great description of Zopiclone, and probably the best one I’ve found which explains the drug and it’s extreme likeness to benzos, how it works on the body, with some studies showing withdrawal can be more extreme than a benzo, it also cites one study which showed evidence of extreme withdrawal symptoms after just seven days of use. If I’d been able to read this before I took them I would never have touched the damn things.

 

Here is the link for the page:

 

https://psychology.wikia.org/wiki/Zopiclone

 

 

This is one quote from the site which I found quite eye opening..

 

‘Zopiclone, a benzodiazepine-like drug was introduced and initially promoted as having less dependence and withdrawal than traditional benzodiazepine drugs. However, zopiclone may have an even greater addictive potential than benzodiazepines and has been described as a "benzodiazepine in disguise".[74][75][76] Tolerance to the effects of zopiclone can develop after a few weeks. Long term use should be avoided. Abrupt withdrawal particularly with prolonged and high doses can in severe cases cause seizures and delirium.[77][78]

 

Publications in the British Medical Journal do not give any evidence to the claim that zopiclone has a low dependence potential. In fact, physical dependence and recreational abuse and withdrawal syndromes similar to those seen in benzodiazepine withdrawal are frequently encountered. Withdrawal symptoms included anxiety, tachycardia, tremor, sweats, flushes, palpitations, derealisation, and further insomnia.[79] Suspected withdrawal convulsions during detoxification from zopiclone has been reported, however the individual was a high dose zopiclone misuser.[80]

 

The risk of dependency on zopiclone when used for less than 2 weeks or only used occasionally is low.[81] However, this is disputed by one study of low dose zopiclone taken for only 7 nights. It found that discontinuation of zopiclone caused significant rebound insomnia. Furthermore when midazolam taken for 7 nights was discontinued no rebound insomnia occurred suggesting that zopiclone may have even more significant problems of tolerance and dependence than the benzodiazepines.’

 

The irony for me is that I read the same studies, and I hoped I would not be one of the "occasionally low" types. It was a deal with the devil though. 3 nights of good sleep, vs 3 straight months of abject misery.

 

I should have dumped them the moment their effect was waning, but I was scared to not sleep, and I ended up not sleeping anyway x100

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