Insomnia and brain damages / how long could we sleep poorly?

Hi guys. My biggest concern is insomnia. I still have to cross over from zopiclone to diazepam and I reached the threshold of 3.5h per night. Sometimes 0-2 hours. I wonder how things could go on and if this process is going to impare my cognitive function. Other times I thinks that all in all my life wasn't so bad compared to now. At least I was able to drive and keep my job. Now I don't know if I'll be able to manage family duties and job in this status.

I'd like to know if it's just a matter of time or should I be worried about neurological issues?

Be careful, I came off Zopiclone very fast re doctors orders and now, 6 months off and I am totally debilitated, I can't drive, go outside, have a constant adrenaline rush, major cognitive issues, etc. 

Thanks Tony. I didn't took zopiclone for years like I did with fluorazepam (mostly occasionally instead of fluorazepam) but I made two mistakes (I wasn't aware of Ashton manual) .

 

1. I crossed over from 30mg of fluorazepam to 15mg of fluorazepam + 7.5mg of zopiclone last year because I didn't know how to taper fluorazepam (there are just 15mg pills that can't be split) while Zopiclone can be split into 4..).

 

2. C/T from Lormetazepam, another short medium half life benzo that could be brutal to discontinue (I've been hit by a big wave then a small window and now another wave - I applied for 1 week of paid sick leave).

 

After reading the Ashton manual I went to a psy which is against C/T and supports slow tapering with Valium. We broadly agree. Just one stuff I'm not fully convinced. She prescribed 75mg pregabalin before bedtime for treating anxiety and making WD more tolerable while Ashton says antidepressants could be an option for treating anxiety/depression/insomnia issues.

 

You won't get "brain damage" from lack of sleep.

 

Sleep is based on two things:  Sleep Drive / Circadian Rhythm

 

If they both are not in balance then sleep is hard to come by.  That means that your Sleep Drive has to be in sync with when your body thinks you should be sleeping (Circadian Rhythm)

 

Unfortunately Benzos and Z drugs temporarily destroy your Sleep Drive.

 

It takes some time for it to come back on its own, but it DOES return in some form for everyone

 

Time is the only healer.  There are no magic potions, supplements or pills that make things return to normal.

 

Of course you can venture down Rx road and possibly get some insomnia relief, but sometimes you need to taper off of those non Benzo sleep aides too?

 

Good luck.

I did a rapid 10 day taper off of 20 mg. of Ambien and as far as I know...no brain damage. I lost more sleep than I though possible over an extended period of time and still rarely have what I would call a good night's sleep, but I'm doing fine. What you are going through now is not permanent.

You won't get "brain damage" from lack of sleep.

 

Sleep is based on two things:  Sleep Drive / Circadian Rhythm

 

If they both are not in balance then sleep is hard to come by.  That means that your Sleep Drive has to be in sync with when your body thinks you should be sleeping (Circadian Rhythm)

 

Unfortunately Benzos and Z drugs temporarily destroy your Sleep Drive.

 

It takes some time for it to come back on its own, but it DOES return in some form for everyone

 

Time is the only healer.  There are no magic potions, supplements or pills that make things return to normal.

 

Of course you can venture down Rx road and possibly get some insomnia relief, but sometimes you need to taper off of those non Benzo sleep aides too?

 

Good luck.

 

I think everyone wants to be rx free here. But in the meanwhile some people need or can't afford not to be at least a little bit functional. At least enough to keep a job, manage a family and raising kids. Real life is not easy man. I don't blame anyone for being forced to choose the lesser evil. People are here also looking for support while making difficult choices that you and I could disagree. Even in these cases they need an help in order to avoid bad outcomes or irreversible mistakes.

I used Valium to get off zopiclone and am now absolutely struggling to get off Valium. Zero sleep most nights. Valium hasn’t helped in my case. I hope things go better for u

Not so sure. Just tried 1/2 zopiclone and 6mg Valium. 3 hours.

I read several people here experience adrenaline / cortisol rushes. I just wonder if there is a way to get a better picture. I mean, how could we check for adrenalin and cortisol in the blood? What about looking for an endocrinologist?

Done that. Yep my cortisol was all over the place.... and the cure for that is? Drs don’t have one.

Thanks God I slept another couple of hours. Even if I had bad dreams is better than nothing.

 

Shayna 78 have you ever performed also neurological exams or sort of to check if everything is fine? I'm scared by doctors but I'd like to check if I'm not losing my mind sleeping so poorly. I need support, my journey is quite long and I started badly (C/T).

Done that. Yep my cortisol was all over the place.... and the cure for that is? Drs don’t have one.

 

Phosphatidylserine is supposed to be very good for reducing cortisol spikes. I wouldn't recommend it in your current state though. Try the Mirt and THC options first.

Thanks God I slept another couple of hours. Even if I had bad dreams is better than nothing.

 

Shayna 78 have you ever performed also neurological exams or sort of to check if everything is fine? I'm scared by doctors but I'd like to check if I'm not losing my mind sleeping so poorly. I need support, my journey is quite long and I started badly (C/T).

 

It seems that most people in withdrawal usually check out 100% neurological wise. Your insomnia is almost guaranteed to be 100% a benzo withdrawal side effect.

 

Mirtazapine, Trazadone, and Cannabis are options that work for some of us to sleep. If you have any of these available, you might want to try them and see if any of these help you. If you find one of these helps, you can use it to bridge you while you taper the rest of the benzo.

 

 

I'm still in shock that such cruel medications exist to begin with. I now realize that benzos (and z-drugs) should be absolutely last last last resort, and carefully monitored. I read stories about people who are absolutely fine except they have "depression" (poor fools think because they had a bad day they are depressed), and they walk out with a scripts for a couple of benzos and some SSRI meds. What. In. The. Living. Hell? They take the drugs and then get to find out what REAL depression is.

Thanks God I slept another couple of hours. Even if I had bad dreams is better than nothing.

 

Shayna 78 have you ever performed also neurological exams or sort of to check if everything is fine? I'm scared by doctors but I'd like to check if I'm not losing my mind sleeping so poorly. I need support, my journey is quite long and I started badly (C/T).

 

I had every conceivable medical test my insurance and the medical community would allow and all of the tests and scans came back normal.  I saw 4 different ER doctors at 4 different hospitals over an one month period and ALL of my sleep issues and other symptoms were from doing a CT from Benzos.  You're not losing your mind from not sleeping.  It's natural to think you should be losing your mind on little sleep, so you subconsciously convince yourself to feel worse than you need to?  I am not advocating Rx drugs, but if you need to explore those I know people have had some luck inducing sleep with low dose Mirtazapine 3.75mg to 7.5mg.  It's an older AD, but in a low dose acts more like an antihistamine and can induce sleep.  Else, Seroquel 50mg or so works for some.  Finally, others have had some success with Doxylamine that is sold OTC (Unisom).

 

You decide what is right for you.  No one is going to look down on you for taking non Benzo or non Zdrugs for sleep.  The reason I don't advocate for Rx drugs is that most are on this forum in an attempt to get off of Rx drugs, not substitute one for another.  But again that's your call.  Nothing worked for me for more than a night or two, so I had to "tough" it out.

 

Good luck! 

I second what the way said. I’ve had 2 brain scans, mris, ct scans , X-rays, ultrasound so many blood tests my veins were collapsing. I’ve had a bunch of really strange cancer tests. (I lost 12 kilos when I went into tolerance and had night sweats amongst other cancer sxs) I’ve had colonoscopy and endoscopy and I’m probably forgetting a few.

 

I also had tests done for addinsons disease because they thought I might have that at one stage.

 

So yes, I’ve had every single test and even paid for quite a few big ones myself.

 

Nothing major detected

I second what the way said. I’ve had 2 brain scans, mris, ct scans , X-rays, ultrasound so many blood tests my veins were collapsing. I’ve had a bunch of really strange cancer tests. (I lost 12 kilos when I went into tolerance and had night sweats amongst other cancer sxs) I’ve had colonoscopy and endoscopy and I’m probably forgetting a few.

 

I also had tests done for addinsons disease because they thought I might have that at one stage.

 

So yes, I’ve had every single test and even paid for quite a few big ones myself.

 

Nothing major detected

 

I should have gotten into the medical field. I could run circles around 90% of these idiots with lab coats. They can't put 2 and 2 together.

I second what the way said. I’ve had 2 brain scans, mris, ct scans , X-rays, ultrasound so many blood tests my veins were collapsing. I’ve had a bunch of really strange cancer tests. (I lost 12 kilos when I went into tolerance and had night sweats amongst other cancer sxs) I’ve had colonoscopy and endoscopy and I’m probably forgetting a few.

 

I also had tests done for addinsons disease because they thought I might have that at one stage.

 

So yes, I’ve had every single test and even paid for quite a few big ones myself.

 

Nothing major detected

 

I should have gotten into the medical field. I could run circles around 90% of these idiots with lab coats. They can't put 2 and 2 together.

 

The worst part about getting all those tests done is you want them to find something just so it’s not “all in ur head” which inevitably it looks like it is, even tho every single person on this forum knows very well it is not.

 

 

Shayna 78,

 

I know what you mean when you say you want them to "find something" so you don't think you're ready for the psych ward.

 

That comes from almost ALL doctors and those in the medical field having ZERO knowledge of Benzo WD or related symptoms.  Most don't even recognize it as a medical condition and even if they do, they say it doesn't last more than a few weeks.

 

It's interesting that when actual medical doctors go through Benzo WD and "speak out" about it, they are often looked down upon by their colleagues or even ostracized from their peer groups.  w-bad.org was started by a medical doctor that went through WD.

On average if you still have symptoms after 6 months of WD doctors are going to tell you that it was a preexisting condition perhaps that benzo WD just worsened. In case of preexisting insomnia this could be true also for Ashton.

Shayna 78,

 

I know what you mean when you say you want them to "find something" so you don't think your ready for the psych ward.

 

That comes from almost ALL doctors and those in the medical field having ZERO knowledge of Benzo WD or related symptoms.  Most don't even recognize it as a medical condition and even if they do, they say it doesn't last more than a few weeks.

 

It's interesting that when actual medical doctors go through Benzo WD and "speak out" about it, they are often looked down upon by their colleagues or even ostracized from their peer groups.  w-bad.org was started by a medical doctor that went through WD.

 

Hey the way. Yep I was hoping I had cancer because it would be at least acknowledged. I’m ashamed to admit that but that’s what I said to my hubby. Thru tears of course. Yes I know about christy huff, also there is a dr on baylissas site who had severe insomnia after coming off Benzos prescribed for insomnia. She said she has lost respect and trust in the medical field that she is a part of.

On average if you still have symptoms after 6 months of WD doctors are going to tell you that it was a preexisting condition perhaps that benzo WD just worsened. In case of preexisting insomnia this could be true also for Ashton.

 

Yep and like the way has also said we had insomnia to start with , it was pre existing, but it was nothing compared to the category 5 insomnia we have now.

 

I had another zero night last night. I absolutely feel like death. I’ve had 5 zero nights in a week

I don't know if it will play out for you this way or not, but it seemed like I had a bunch of zero nights in the month before my sleep started to come back.  Way more zero nights than "normal" anyway. I think Siggy had a similar experience?

God I hope u are right. Xx

 

Quarantine dude if u get a 6 hrs night in between that’s pretty amazing. I don’t ever get that much so u should feel good about that x that’s positive

Went back to 4 the night after. I still have to cross over from zopiclone to diazepam, my journey is quite long.

I C/T lormetazepam at the end of January and I'm suffering. I crossed over from Fluorazepam to Diazepam. This is supposed to be the easy part of my job since they are both long half life benzo. Fluorazepam was slightly better than Diazepam imho but there are only 15mg pills.

Oh sorry I think I’m getting my posts mixed up.

 

I thought u were off. We got rxd for insomnia and most people that were rxd for that have bad insomnia as they come off. It sux but it looks like that’s the norm.

 

 

Last Saturday I wanted to sleep a little bit more and I tried 25mg of Atarax, an antihistamine. No improvement. Just knocked out. I felt so bad and sad that I was going to cry. I didn't want my children see me in such status. I went to my parents and spent there 4 days. I tried to sleep again at my home yesterday but I started to hate all the noises coming from the kitchen where my wife was cooking something for the day after. I felt very sad. I can fall asleep only if I'm alone. I can't fall asleep close to my wife nor close to my son after reading him a story.

I expected a zero hours night. I had slightly less than 4. I'm trying to use a weighted blanket. Usually I'm not very comfortable with it but this night I arranged the bed in way that was more pleasant and I think it helped me perhaps. Like an idiot sometimes I put a small teddy belongings to my children close to my cushion. I can feel their smell. It calms me down a little. I know it's stupid. But when I woke up in the night alone or when I struggle to fall asleep I have only memories of my previous life. Something I had until 6 months ago.

Sorry buddies, but you know how bad insomnia is.