Tonight I test the machine

I thought I would post this in case it may eventually help others.

I bought a machine called the Ebb Cool Drift Luxe. It is a machine that you strap on to your forehead, and the idea is that it will actually run actively cooled liquid to cool your head (with the cooling eventually getting deeper into your frontal lobe. The point of this, is that, at least in theory, it's supposed to slow down your neural activity (kind of a mechanical way to lower glutamate, instead of pharmaceutical way).

The reason I bought it, is because I liked the idea of the machine keeping a constant cooling temp on your head for an 8hr run. So it's not just a 20min ice pack and that's it. This thing will keep your forehead as cold as you want for the entire night. I feel that this HAS to force the brain to go to sleep.

I finally got it in the mail today and tried it out for about 30min. It's more comfortable than I expected, but it can get COLD, wow. It has 10 settings: 1 to 10, 1 being the coldest, and 10 being the warmest. 1 was definitely too intense to be comfortable for an 8hr sleep for me.

I will probably try it at level 7, as the manual recommends. L7 was definitely noticeably cold. I have no doubt 1hr of this thing on, the cold will reach the actual brain.

I'll report my nightly progress.

My initial thoughts:

1. I think this machine will only help IF you have some ability to sleep on your own. So if you can get 2hr sleep on your own, I bet this thing will give you another 2hr.

2. I am expecting to still need to take a supplement tonight. I'll give the machine 2hr on its own, and if I'm still not asleep, I'll probably pop some Theanine and Melatonin, and see how it goes.

3. Mirtazapine, thankfully, does help me sleep, but I wake up drowsy pretty much all day. I want to NOT have to rely on it, but I thank God that at least it does work. Better sleep and be a bit drowsy vs no sleep. I mention it because it does help my anxiety to know I have a backup.

4. With that said, I'm sure this thing will provide gradual increases in sleep. Hence this post.

If this machine helps me, it may help some of you also.

I appreciate that you will be sharing your experiences, and I'm just posting so that I'll see updates.

Also, I hope that this works for you. That would be great!

Well, first night using it. It is LOUD. I had to put on earplugs to reduce the sound to a manageable level.

The cold on your forehead feels very nice, but I'm not used to having a hose strapped to my head while trying to sleep. I *almost* fell asleep on its own, but 4hr later, I had to get up and take some supps.

Took Valerian, Lemon Balm, Melatonin, Theanine and Lavender.  This allowed me to fall asleep eventually and I think I got about 4hr sleep, machine still hooked on.

I guess a bonus is that I woke up tired, but no headache.

So I'll just keep using it every night and see what happens. I did not expect to get 8hr sleep out of it, but hopefully I slowly start to get 4hr or more with only the machine.

I have some mj being delivered to me today. If I actually get it today, I have to decide if I will take a shot of that, or if I will pop some Mirt.

What is your house temp usually at night when you sleep or try to?

I have a thermometer in my room. What's comfortable for me is around 71-73f, and that's where I try to keep temps.

So I got my Indica tincture today. I guess I will try dosing with this, and see if 5mg gets me enough to sleep. I'll probably wear the machine as well.

I have found that I sleep a little better with cooler room temps - like around 60F. That had not been the case previously. I used to get cold easily.

Be sure to share how the Indica goes. I find it helps with the falling asleep part.

I have found that I sleep a little better with cooler room temps - like around 60F. That had not been the case previously. I used to get cold easily.

 

Be sure to share how the Indica goes. I find it helps with the falling asleep part.

Damn 60 is quite cold. Definitely too cold for me. Anything below 68 and I'm freezing. Maybe I'll try that next week, once I get used more used to the machine (and whatever level of Indica I need to get me to sleep).

I also like to sleep in a cold room.  We set the thermostat at 62 at night (during the winter).  When I loved alone, I'd sometimes cool the bedroom to <50 during the winter (I'd be under a sleeping bag on a heated water bed).

Well last night I tested my Indica THC. 5mg was able to get me 5hr sleep. I will post further updates on the THC Support Thread here: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=165140.3260

I went to be around 12midnight and woke up around 5am. I could not go back to sleep, so I figured I'd try the machine, so I put it on, and in 1hr I *almost* fell asleep, but no dice.

So sadly, at least for the moment, I will keep on needing to take something to help me sleep.

But I will continue to update this thread with updates using this machine. Maybe in a couple of weeks I can get off everything except this machine? One can hope.

10 mg might get you 7-8 hours.  I see a dose dependence.

What was the highest dosage you ended up needing? And are you still using now?

I put on the machine at around 4am last night. I had gone to bed at 12am, but could not sleep.

I ended up getting maybe 1hr sleep around 6am, but very light.

Sometimes chasing sleep makes it run away.

I know. I'm now stuck in the situation that I don't know if I'm still damaged by the Zopiclone, or if it's purely psychological now.

I have a feeling like 70% sure that it's psychological.

Maybe I should see a therapist? All the horror stories on this board certainly haven't helped much.

Z-drugs can really mess you up and take a long time to recover from. Ambien is what got me and I am still recovering from it over 5.5 years later. I have periods of decent enough sleep, along with periods of real dysfunctional sleep. At least I usually don't feel tired during the day. It is hard not to get anxious about not sleeping. I sometimes take either timed-release melatonin, L-Tryptophan or generic Benadryl. They don't always put me to sleep, but they relax me enough to be able to stay in bed and rest with less anxiety. This allows for brief periods sleep to set in and that sustains me through the next day.

It seems you were on the Z-Drugs for a while though. I was only on them for a month, never touched them before and haven't touched a single one after.

Am I really that bad from just one month of usage?

Z-drugs can really mess you up and take a long time to recover from. Ambien is what got me and I am still recovering from it over 5.5 years later. I have periods of decent enough sleep, along with periods of real dysfunctional sleep. At least I usually don't feel tired during the day. It is hard not to get anxious about not sleeping. I sometimes take either timed-release melatonin, L-Tryptophan or generic Benadryl. They don't always put me to sleep, but they relax me enough to be able to stay in bed and rest with less anxiety. This allows for brief periods sleep to set in and that sustains me through the next day.

 

 

It seems you were on the Z-Drugs for a while though. I was only on them for a month, never touched them before and haven't touched a single one after.

 

Am I really that bad from just one month of usage?

Given what I’ve experienced after having been on them for 7 weeks I would say it’s highly likely that the vast majority of what you are experiencing is a consequence of the brain injury that Zop caused, especially because you had to up the dose and I think once tolerance is reached is doesn’t really matter how long you are on them. When I first came off I literally could not sleep at all, I slept once in 8 days initially. Then after about two weeks it went to one night on one off. At that point I started biopqq, a probiotic, green smoothies and Nordic Naturals Omega oil as suggested by Parker in her lengthy posts about the brain injury we have suffered. Since then it went to two nights with sleep albeit shit sleep, not deep or restorative. I’m now on 8 days in a row with some form of sleep but it’s very erratic and not deep, like 6 hours, 2 hours, 5 hours with lots of dreaming. But I don’t feel anywhere near as shit as I felt in that first month off. I do think the Omega oil has helped the healing process, although it’s not cheap. Also as TheWay2 and aloha suggested, I don’t even give sleep any thought anymore, I don’t give it that power, I go to bed to rest and if sleep comes then great.

Z-drugs can really mess you up and take a long time to recover from. Ambien is what got me and I am still recovering from it over 5.5 years later. I have periods of decent enough sleep, along with periods of real dysfunctional sleep. At least I usually don't feel tired during the day. It is hard not to get anxious about not sleeping. I sometimes take either timed-release melatonin, L-Tryptophan or generic Benadryl. They don't always put me to sleep, but they relax me enough to be able to stay in bed and rest with less anxiety. This allows for brief periods sleep to set in and that sustains me through the next day.

 

It seems you were on the Z-Drugs for a while though. I was only on them for a month, never touched them before and haven't touched a single one after.

 

 

 

Am I really that bad from just one month of usage?

The prescribing info for Z-drugs like Ambien clearly state that they are intended for short-term continuous use only, although the definition of "short-term" is usually not included. Internet research indicates that around 3 weeks is good definition. However, "continuous use" is pretty obvious. Although I used Ambien for many years, I did not use it on a continuous basis. My problems started when I went on a 3 week vacation that had a lot of sleep challenges so I ended up taking the drug every night. When I got home I felt the effects, but after years of fairly safe Ambien usage I had no idea that the drug was causing the problem. I needed it more often and then at higher dosages until I finally crossed a line that should never be crossed.

My sleep issues now are very different than simply needing help falling asleep once in awhile as they were prior to tolerance and withdrawal. Things are most certainly better than the first couple of years post-withdrawal so if brain damaged occurred, some actual healing did take place.

Z-drugs can really mess you up and take a long time to recover from. Ambien is what got me and I am still recovering from it over 5.5 years later. I have periods of decent enough sleep, along with periods of real dysfunctional sleep. At least I usually don't feel tired during the day. It is hard not to get anxious about not sleeping. I sometimes take either timed-release melatonin, L-Tryptophan or generic Benadryl. They don't always put me to sleep, but they relax me enough to be able to stay in bed and rest with less anxiety. This allows for brief periods sleep to set in and that sustains me through the next day.

 

It seems you were on the Z-Drugs for a while though. I was only on them for a month, never touched them before and haven't touched a single one after.

 

 

 

Am I really that bad from just one month of usage?

 

The prescribing info for Z-drugs like Ambien clearly state that they are intended for short-term continuous use only, although the definition of "short-term" is usually not included. Internet research indicates that around 3 weeks is good definition. However, "continuous use" is pretty obvious. Although I used Ambien for many years, I did not use it on a continuous basis. My problems started when I went on a 3 week vacation that had a lot of sleep challenges so I ended up taking the drug every night. When I got home I felt the effects, but after years of fairly safe Ambien usage I had no idea that the drug was causing the problem. I needed it more often and then at higher dosages until I finally crossed a line that should never be crossed.

 

My sleep issues now are very different than simply needing help falling asleep once in awhile as they were prior to tolerance and withdrawal. Things are most certainly better than the first couple of years post-withdrawal so if brain damaged occurred, some actual healing did take place.

based on your sig, it looks like around April 2015 you were hammering your system with 3 different benzo receptor agonists (Ambien, Lunesta, and Ativan), and you had already been months in a bad position. I am so sorry you went thru that. It's not comparable to my situation though. I only used it for 4 weeks. I only used more than the recommended dose for 11 days (1 and 1/2 tabs instead of just one), and the last 9 days I used it at only 1/2 a tab (I was already full blown side effects at this point).

Not to downplay your situation (I hope you are getting sleep somehow), but unless the length of use and the amount doesn't matter, I don't feel that 3 months out, I should still have complete insomnia if I don't take anything (and yet so little to actually sleep. I can sleep on 3.75mg Mirtazapine. I can sleep on 5mg THC. I can sleep with a stack of supps, like Valerian, Lemon Balm, Theanine, Holy Basil, Magnolia Bark).

I'm almost ready to say that my problem now is mostly psychological. Sadly there are very few cases on the board here of short term users. Most of you guys have been on for a while (I understand you did 3 weeks constant, but it definitely escalated for you were you were taking 4x the doses I ever took).

But how do you fight your own fears? It seems that the only way is with meditation practice, which I am starting to take very seriously now.

Andros01,

Everyone is different so you can't really compare your withdrawal experience to what others have been through. It might also be possible that once a line has been crossed you get slammed no matter how much beyond the line you go. You also have to consider the original reasons why you went on a Z-drug in the first place because whatever was going on then may still be going on now on top of withdrawal.

Withdrawal is certainly physical, but a psychological component is very likely to develop as well. Seeing a therapist right now won't hurt, but it also probably won't help much other than helping teach acceptance. I have been on this site for a long time and can draw on the experience of a lot of others, as well as my own. I have yet to hear about someone finding a magic bullet that succeeds in short-cutting the healing process.

I would recommend meditation however. I have been very strict with my practice of 20 minutes a day. Studies indicate that meditation can provide some of the restoration missed when not sleeping. One study suggests that 30 minutes is equal to 3 hours of sleep, but I have a hard time believing that. All I know is that I am functioning and feeling mostly pretty fine in spite of all the missed sleep.

Z-drugs can really mess you up and take a long time to recover from. Ambien is what got me and I am still recovering from it over 5.5 years later. I have periods of decent enough sleep, along with periods of real dysfunctional sleep. At least I usually don't feel tired during the day. It is hard not to get anxious about not sleeping. I sometimes take either timed-release melatonin, L-Tryptophan or generic Benadryl. They don't always put me to sleep, but they relax me enough to be able to stay in bed and rest with less anxiety. This allows for brief periods sleep to set in and that sustains me through the next day.

 

It seems you were on the Z-Drugs for a while though. I was only on them for a month, never touched them before and haven't touched a single one after.

 

 

 

Am I really that bad from just one month of usage?

 

The prescribing info for Z-drugs like Ambien clearly state that they are intended for short-term continuous use only, although the definition of "short-term" is usually not included. Internet research indicates that around 3 weeks is good definition. However, "continuous use" is pretty obvious. Although I used Ambien for many years, I did not use it on a continuous basis. My problems started when I went on a 3 week vacation that had a lot of sleep challenges so I ended up taking the drug every night. When I got home I felt the effects, but after years of fairly safe Ambien usage I had no idea that the drug was causing the problem. I needed it more often and then at higher dosages until I finally crossed a line that should never be crossed.

 

My sleep issues now are very different than simply needing help falling asleep once in awhile as they were prior to tolerance and withdrawal. Things are most certainly better than the first couple of years post-withdrawal so if brain damaged occurred, some actual healing did take place.

 

based on your sig, it looks like around April 2015 you were hammering your system with 3 different benzo receptor agonists (Ambien, Lunesta, and Ativan), and you had already been months in a bad position. I am so sorry you went thru that. It's not comparable to my situation though. I only used it for 4 weeks. I only used more than the recommended dose for 11 days (1 and 1/2 tabs instead of just one), and the last 9 days I used it at only 1/2 a tab (I was already full blown side effects at this point).

 

Not to downplay your situation (I hope you are getting sleep somehow), but unless the length of use and the amount doesn't matter, I don't feel that 3 months out, I should still have complete insomnia if I don't take anything (and yet so little to actually sleep. I can sleep on 3.75mg Mirtazapine. I can sleep on 5mg THC. I can sleep with a stack of supps, like Valerian, Lemon Balm, Theanine, Holy Basil, Magnolia Bark).

 

I'm almost ready to say that my problem now is mostly psychological. Sadly there are very few cases on the board here of short term users. Most of you guys have been on for a while (I understand you did 3 weeks constant, but it definitely escalated for you were you were taking 4x the doses I ever took).

 

But how do you fight your own fears? It seems that the only way is with meditation practice, which I am starting to take very seriously now.

I wouldn't jump on the psychological bandwagon too fast.  Siggy was also a short-term user (I believe he took 25 pills total?) and suffered with some serious sleep issues for months and months.  The biggest "mistake" people make is putting their own time line on when they should sleep better or it must be "something else" causing my poor sleep?  No two WD experiences are alike and there is no hard and fast rule or formula that says if you took this amount of a Benzo or Z drug for this much time, you will sleep better in this much time.  Drugs affect everyone differently so your 4 weeks use could equal another person's 5 year use??  Nobody knows for sure.

In a perfect world it would make sense that people that took the drug for 4 weeks should have an easier WD experience!  But there is no rhyme or reason when it comes to Benzo WD.  Long term users recover faster than short term users in some cases.  In other cases short term users have more intense symptoms.  It's all a guessing game at best.  Throw logic out the door. 

You've been off 4 months and in WD circles, that is a relatively short period of time.  As I said there's no guarantee that 4 weeks of use equals 3 months of poor sleep.  You might get hit with sleep issues for a lot longer???  I took Benzos for 12 weeks the first time around, stopped for 6 weeks with absolutely ZERO symptoms, no WD and good sleep.  That was from January to March, 2016.  Then my sleep acted up again and I stupidly took Benzos again from June to early August 2016 but at much higher doses and more than one Benzo.  I quickly reached tolerance by early July but kept taking them...my sleep got worse and worse until I found this site and did a CT.

I am 4.5 years off and for the most part sleep pretty well; although I still have bouts of poor sleep like Aloha.  I've had some pretty poor sleep on and off over the past 7 weeks, but also had some good sleep too, with more good than poor sleep.  Prior to that, I slept pretty well for 2 years in a row.  I doubt it's still Benzo related this far out, but it could be?  I don't know.  But I've learned coping skills over the years, and like Aloha, I totally agree with meditation.  It helps quite a bit. 

If your insomnia is a result of your Z drug or Benzo use, then it's way too early to expect it to resolve.  The good news is sleep slowly gets better.  It's not all poor and then suddenly all good.  It's a real roller coaster ride for most and most of the time it's 1 step forward 2 steps back.  Acceptance doesn't mean approval.  Accepting that your sleep sucks right now doesn't mean you are good with not getting a lot of sleep.  But accepting that it will take time to get your sleep back is a good thing.  Showing gratitude for any and all sleep you get is a good thing.  You'll get there.  It is what it is and it ends when it ends.  Nothing can change that.

Good luck!

If your insomnia is a result of your Z drug or Benzo use, then it's way too early to expect it to resolve.  The good news is sleep slowly gets better.  It's not all poor and then suddenly all good.  It's a real roller coaster ride for most and most of the time it's 1 step forward 2 steps back.  Acceptance doesn't mean approval.  Accepting that your sleep sucks right now doesn't mean you are good with not getting a lot of sleep.  But accepting that it will take time to get your sleep back is a good thing.  Showing gratitude for any and all sleep you get is a good thing.  You'll get there.  It is what it is and it ends when it ends.  Nothing can change that.

Well, you're probably right, since I have been very relaxed in the past couple of weeks before sleep. I haven't tried sleeping with nothing yet, but I have been using THC and CBD to get enough sleep to cope (20mg THC right now seems to get me 5-6hr, although I have had some 3hr nights with the same).

There seems to be no rhyme or reason as to how I'm ok one day, and not so good the next day.

I also think the Z-Drugs are probably as aggressive as the harder benzos like Flunitrazepam, since it seems to take a hard hit to allow someone to sleep vs just reduce anxiety.

As for acceptance, well, I lucked out that Mirtazapine works for me to sleep (I'm not currently on it), and also the Cannabis stuff also seems to be helping me for sleep. So I can manage for a while until I can try sleeping on my own.

So I can't really say I've "accepted it" since my suffering is not as bad as some other poor people on here. I have accepted that it will take a while to heal. My goal is probably to try sleeping on my own for a few days every month or so, and see how I do.

Since this thread was to review the Ebb CoolDrift device, I'll give an update on it:

Just the device itself does not help me sleep. I guess for me, just the cooling effect is not enough to get me under. BUT I have noticed that if I use it, vs not use it when I take something else (like THC), it cuts my sleep onset by about 1hr.

Also the device feels pretty good. It's absolutely relaxing to have a constant cooling sensation on your head for as long as you want it. I'd definitely recommend this thing to take the edge off anxiety without drugs. For sleep, I don't know. I wish I could have tried it when my brain was normal. It doesn't work for me right now on its own, but that could just be benzo brain.

Tried to buy a coolldrift luxe today. I’ll try anything. They’re unavailable. Wonder if they were discontinued or if supply can’t meet demand.

Hmm I just checked the site. It looks like they are not selling them on their website anymore. Rather, they have some kind of partnership with Amazon.

On Amazon I couldn't find the luxe model, but I did find the versa:

https://www.amazon.com/Ebb-CoolDrift-Versa-Technology-Clinically-Validated/dp/B088PDX4F3/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=ebb+cool+drift&qid=1618670651&sr=8-1

I can't vouch for it, since I don't own one, but I imagine it works the same?

The effect is very subtle BTW. It feels like 1.5mg melatonin in its effect, but completely drug free. Have you tried anything else yet to sleep? Unisom? Remeron?