Well this has freaked me out... don’t read if triggered

..

I don’t know what it means, Tweed, but it scares the beejusus out of me!!!!

I don’t think the damage is permanent.... healing is just very sloooooowww

I think they might be referring to people who never get off the benzos. So their benzo dependency is a permanent state because they take them until they die, usually due to an inability to tolerate withdrawal. Lots of people get off benzos and if you're motivated to do it, you will get off them too. With your attitude, you will make it.

Well, I feel better already.....sounds reasonable that those who stay on benzos are in a totally different group of bbs

This is a post of Colin’s on the subject of potentially permanent damage;

 

I have written, more than once, about my own recovery. It is incomplete. I'll explain more precisely. I was very slow to to recover. I suffered from very protracted withdrawal symptoms. In particular, very difficult and chronic insomnia, severe headaches, and weakness down my left side which manifested as a limp. I'd also suffer regular muscle spasms. Eventually, over some years, all these symptoms subsided and eventually disappeared. The last of these (severe headaches) have only really resolved themselves over the past few years (my last dose clonazepam was in January 2003).

 

The only reason that I feel that I have not totally recovered is that I have retained a sensitivity to alcohol. Now, this is no big deal. Although I like a cold bear on a hot summer's day, it is not the end of the world. And, if I am really careful, I can get away with a single beer every few months without any noticeable ill effects. But, any more than that, I become a little shambolic, and start to feel like I did 10+ years ago, before I made the connection with alcohol.

 

I once spoke with Prof. Ashton about the causes of protracted withdrawal symptoms. She had spoken about the phenomenon with a molecular biologist who theorised that when an absorbed GABA receptor reemerges after cessation of benzodiazepines, there might be a change in gene expression. So, a permanent change? I don't know. What I do know is that I am not quite the same as I was before benzodiazepines. And alcohol (a GABA agonist) affects me differently than it used to and very markedly. I can only surmise that this is because of my use of benzodiazepines, but I cannot know this for certain (I am a sample of 1). Though, it fits the timeline, the reported experience of others, and that I have only gotten better with no indication of other disease to explain my symptoms. But I try to avoid making absolute claims about my situation - there is no way to know for sure.

 

Now, given what I have said about my own situation (there cannot be certainty), there is no way I can know for sure what is happening with others. I am relying upon their accurate description of their situation (as they perceive it) - and this does not mean that their perception is correct. They might have an underlying condition (known or unknown) which explains their symptoms. There could be psychological elements. I am not making accusations - it is just that the is no way for me to know for certain. But anecdotal evidence, such as mine, from other patients, and from prescribing doctors, etc., deserve exploration. This is why a proper clinical study (and postmortems) are vital - they could answer these questions unequivocally.

 

Now, I am not saying for a moment that there is no permanent damage in some cases. I actually think there is. I think there are some permanent changes with me. But, BUT, this does not mean that I am suffering, or not getting on with my life. Mostly, I feel fine. I did lose a good many years out of my life, and it did turn things upside down at the time. So, even if there are some permanent changes or problems, this does not mean that my life is not good. In the main, and in the most important ways, I am happy with life.

 

What I have also written before is that it might be unrealistic to expect to return to how we were before benzodiazepines, which might be 5, 10, 20 or more years before. We all gradually decline, but our more aged self might come as a bit of a shock after being too drugged up to notice or care for some years - just a thought. We need to be philosophical about our predicament. Life is characterised by a gradual decline of physical and mental faculties. Yes, we can (and should) fight it, mitigate against decline, postpone some of the effects, but the trend is unavoidable.

 

Well, I hope my response still carries some meaning.

 

 

Edited my opening remarks for clarity.

That article is not available for me in the US.  I wish it could be pasted on this thread.

I can't access this article without paying a $200 subscription fee.  Can it be pasted? 

 

 

This is the relevant part:

 

'Withdrawal is possible in most people who are dependent on benzodiazepines once problems related to prolonged use are explained and discussed.

Withdrawal symptoms when the drug is reduced or stopped occur in approximately 40% of people who take benzodiazepines continuously for more than six weeks. Symptoms may begin within 24 hours for short-acting benzodiazepines, or may develop over several days with longer-acting drugs. Maximum intensity usually occurs between three and fourteen days but may continue for up to six weeks.

A protracted withdrawal syndrome occurs in a minority (up to 15%) of people, most of whom have taken benzodiazepines for many years. This can be worsened by stress or adverse life events. The most common symptoms and the typical time periods over which they gradually resolve include:

Anxiety — one year.

Insomnia — six months to one year.

Depression — six months to one year. May respond to antidepressant treatment.

Adverse cognitive effects such as memory impairment, emotional blunting, reduced coping skills — six months to one year.

Perceptual symptoms: tinnitus, paraesthesia, pain (usually in limbs) — at least one year.

Motor symptoms: muscle pain, weakness, tension, painful tremor, jerks — at least one year.

In rare cases where benzodiazepine dependence is established, it can be extremely difficult to treat, may result in persistent withdrawal symptoms, and may become a long-term or even permanent state.

Withdrawal from prolonged hypnotic drug use may cause sleep disturbance for a few days while the normal rhythm is re-established. Broken sleep and vivid dreams may persist for several weeks. CKS could find little specific information relating to the likelihood and frequency of other withdrawal symptoms following discontinuation of a z-drug. A single blinded RCT compared symptoms between patients undergoing a three week withdrawal programme following use of either zopiclone or zolpidem for at least three months, and symptoms in people continuing treatment. When 'sleep complaints' were discounted, the frequency of other withdrawal-type symptoms did not differ significantly between those withdrawing from zopiclone or zolpidem and those continuing treatment [Lemoine et al, 1995].

[Ford and Law, 2014; All Wales Medicines Strategy Group, 2016; BNF 76, 2018]'

 

I emailed Dr Chris Ford a few times in 2018 who was not able to say I would recover.

 

She has also written a long paper but it is a PDF so can't link.

 

That article is confusing and doesn't say if a person who is off the benzo's could have permanent damage.

Yes, that bit was a bit unclear Becksblue.  Lots of symptoms were not listed, and timelines certainly don't match my own experience.  If only. 

 

I'm adopting the approach that all of us will heal, just some slower than others. 

 

Thanks so much for posting the article Ajusta, really appreciated it.  Hope you're doing ok. 

 

Dee x

 

 

A UK Dr who is mentioned at the end of that piece.

She has also written a big guide on benzo prescribing and withdrawl.

It mostly refs Ashton and Lader.

Google Dr Chris Ford Benzodiazepines.

She was part of European group on it.

She has retired now due to ill health.

 

 

Take into consideration there’s more than a great chance these doctors don’t even know about the people who went 10+ years before recovery.  These doctors probably look at someone a year or two out and give an “impatient conclusion.”