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what is everyone's thoughts on NMDA antagonists?


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What does everyone think about using NMDA antagonists. I read this

 

and the person said that they experienced very little withdrawal symptoms. What does everyone think?

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I am very curious as well. I see riluzole reviews on drugs.com for OCD and if it works for benzo taper/wd then I would be solving two things at once.
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[48...]
Research shows that NDMA antagonists during benzodiazepine withdrawal can prevent withdrawal symptoms, that is true. However, NDMA antagonists are unpleasant in and of themselves, dissociation is not a pleasant feeling. Also, you are switching dependency on one drug for dependency on another.
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Pacenik,

 

I've heard that some people take ketamine for fun. I may have tried it myself in my past. I can see how it might help with depression. I think people should be prepared that it might be a "drug experience" with all that is good and bad about that. But if you go in expecting a strong drug experience, you will not be overwhelmed because it's supposedly given at a light dose. The effect is more likely to be relaxing and perhaps slightly peculiar rather than anything difficult. Just my opinion based upon enjoying a moderate dose, if I tried it.

 

I do have a difficulty with the idea of consuming anything that's produced in a lab unless it's like life or death. I've not even decided if I'm getting this vaccine. The opportunity doesn't present itself and I don't feel like seeking it, so I have no plans to do ketamine again. I don't need to decide if that's a rule I have made but it could be. Once in a blue moon, decades away, who knows? I did quite like it and I do believe it sort of gave me a boost that lasted a while afterwards. It's kinda hard to know that because I was in such a horrible state. I was beyond being snapped out of it completely by a one off administration of any drug. Rock bottom gave me the opportunity to explore and experiment. It was just survival mixed with escapism.

 

I think that anybody who has to be in control at all times might not like it. If you can believe it's going to help you, it probably will. I intuitively understand the mechanism by which it works. It'll be fine if you're not panicking.

 

I've thought of trying gingko biloba. I read something about this sort of effect but I haven't been sufficiently moved to make a purchase. I suppose it's because I'm actually feeling alright most of the time.  :thumbsup:

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Research shows that NDMA antagonists during benzodiazepine withdrawal can prevent withdrawal symptoms, that is true. However, NDMA antagonists are unpleasant in and of themselves, dissociation is not a pleasant feeling. Also, you are switching dependency on one drug for dependency on another.

 

Mementine, mentioned on that list, has all kinds of side effects. My provider let me try half a 5 mg pill, it caused GI upset and worse, it caused insomnia. It can also cause sleepynesss so I was hoping it would help me with sleep.. I gave up after almost 3 weeks using 2.5 mg. BB user Mamoot has had success with it, but did stop it earlier in his taper, and restarted it later. One study read said it is best to use it starting day 4 after stopping your Benzo, and taking it until day 21 (at 5 mg). Supposedly it reduced or eliminated acute in those in the study. YMMV.

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[48...]

Pacenik,

 

I've heard that some people take ketamine for fun. I may have tried it myself in my past. I can see how it might help with depression. I think people should be prepared that it might be a "drug experience" with all that is good and bad about that. But if you go in expecting a strong drug experience, you will not be overwhelmed because it's supposedly given at a light dose. The effect is more likely to be relaxing and perhaps slightly peculiar rather than anything difficult. Just my opinion based upon enjoying a moderate dose, if I tried it.

 

I do have a difficulty with the idea of consuming anything that's produced in a lab unless it's like life or death. I've not even decided if I'm getting this vaccine. The opportunity doesn't present itself and I don't feel like seeking it, so I have no plans to do ketamine again. I don't need to decide if that's a rule I have made but it could be. Once in a blue moon, decades away, who knows? I did quite like it and I do believe it sort of gave me a boost that lasted a while afterwards. It's kinda hard to know that because I was in such a horrible state. I was beyond being snapped out of it completely by a one off administration of any drug. Rock bottom gave me the opportunity to explore and experiment. It was just survival mixed with escapism.

 

I think that anybody who has to be in control at all times might not like it. If you can believe it's going to help you, it probably will. I intuitively understand the mechanism by which it works. It'll be fine if you're not panicking.

 

I've thought of trying gingko biloba. I read something about this sort of effect but I haven't been sufficiently moved to make a purchase. I suppose it's because I'm actually feeling alright most of the time.  :thumbsup:

The way they did it in lab isn't something you'd be able to do at home. They put the rats under ketamine anesthesia and then flumazenil benzos out of them. You can take memantine at home, but doses required would be something like 30 mg / day and then you'd have problem of how to get off memantine.
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It seems to me as if you’d just be trading one drug for another. So you’d still be taking a medication every day. Which would be yet again another withdrawal to go through. Doesn’t se worth it to me. I’d rather just tough it out.
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But regarding riluzole, are there reports about wd or issues on long term use? I read an post on IOCD that it is studied as a new drug for OCD. If this helps, I will be happy to take it instead of SSRIs.
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[48...]

But regarding riluzole, are there reports about wd or issues on long term use? I read an post on IOCD that it is studied as a new drug for OCD. If this helps, I will be happy to take it instead of SSRIs.

Riluzole requires special dietary regimen. Troriluzole is a riluzole pro-drug that doesn't require any special consideration.
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  • 1 year later...

From what I've read into and I accept that it may not be entirely accurate. The down-regulation of the A1 location sites on the GABAa receptors due to the agonist effect benzodiazepines exert on this location may lead to the up-regulation of certain location sites on the NMDA and AMPA receptors located in the Glutamatergic neurons. I have no information on which particular sites may be effected on these receptors.

 

However, it is possible that the degree of benzodiazepine withdrawal symptom severity has more to do with the up-regulation of these receptor sites than it does the down-regulation of the A1 sites on the GABAa receptors in the GABAergic neurons.

 

The up-regulation of the NMDA and AMPA receptor sites gives Glutamate (the brains primary excitatory neurotransmitter) more sites to bind to. This would result in an increase in cell membrane depolarization, resulting in the Voltage-gated calcium (Ca2+) channels to remain open for extended periods of time. Flooding the Axon Terminals of neurons with positively charged Calcium Ions. When too many Calcium Ions flood into the neurons, it leads to 'excitotoxicity' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity

 

Excitotoxicity can lead to chronic over stimulation. Particularly the over stimulation of the adrenergic receptors, leading to symptoms of Anxiety, Panic Attacks and Insomnia.

 

In more severe cases of Excitotoxicity, the structural integrity of the neurons can become damaged or even lead to the death of the neuron cell itself. This can trigger more severe symptoms such as hallucinations, psychosis and Grand Mal Seizures.

 

The use of NMDA and AMPA receptor antagonists/blockers could prove to be highly beneficial in controlling benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms, by reducing/blocking Glutamate's activation effects on these receptors, preventing excess Calcium Ion Influx into the neurons.

 

There is an interesting study here, where a 27 year old male suffering from severe benzodiazepine withdrawal along with Opioid poly drug use was admitted to a medical facility where a combination of benzodiazepine's were administered, but failed to get the symptoms under control. - https://www.cureus.com/articles/27151-ketamine-a-potential-adjunct-for-severe-benzodiazepine-withdrawal

 

The patient was then placed on a Ketamine infusion of 0.5mg/kg given over a 30-minute interval and the withdrawal symptoms were subsequently reduced dramatically.

 

The reason this study is so relevant is because Ketamine is a highly potent NMDA receptor antagonist and greatly inhibits Glutamate's activation on these receptors.

 

Supplemental sources of NMDA and AMPA receptor antagonists include Magnesium Glycinate and L-Theanine. Magnesium has an antagonistic effect on NMDA receptors as well as acting as a partial blocker of the Calcium Channels. L-Theanine has antagonistic effects on the AMPA receptors and also partially blocks the transportation of Glutamate into the Glutamatergic neurons from the Astrocyte. This is important, because any Glutamate that can't make it's way into the Glutamatergic neuron, is subsequently sent to the GABAergic neuron instead. The Glutamate is then converted into GABA through the Glutamic Acid Decarboxylase (GAD) process. Reducing Glutamate in the Glutamatergic neuron, while boosting GABA levels in the GABAergic neuron.

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