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Does sleep drive come back?


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Hi, probably more aimed at the people who have been through the withdrawal and are out on the other side. One of the things I noticed within two weeks of taking pills was that my sleep drive had disappeared and I was never feeling sleepy anymore. I’m still only two weeks free of them and just wanted to know if those of you who have recovered get that sleepy dosey feeling back again. When I was reading the Ashton Manual she talks about functional damage to gaba receptors and that when they return they might not be as effective as they were before you took Benzos/z drugs. Is this something some of you would agree with?
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[f3...]
Most of the withdrawal process apepars to be because of glutamatergic kindling, and HPA dysregulation, and hasn't got much to do with GABAA receptors. It takes only about two weeks for GABAARs to upregulate. Damage to GABAA receptors may actually be because of de-coupling of BZD sites from GABAA receptors, or because reversing of the configuration of GABAA receptors (as shown in flumazenil research). I rember the period before I was kindled and when benzos stopped working for putting me to sleep, I would just stop cold-turkey with no perceived withdrawal symptoms, and when I took them again later on, they were working as well as the first time.
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Hi, probably more aimed at the people who have been through the withdrawal and are out on the other side. One of the things I noticed within two weeks of taking pills was that my sleep drive had disappeared and I was never feeling sleepy anymore. I’m still only two weeks free of them and just wanted to know if those of you who have recovered get that sleepy dosey feeling back again. When I was reading the Ashton Manual she talks about functional damage to gaba receptors and that when they return they might not be as effective as they were before you took Benzos/z drugs. Is this something some of you would agree with?

 

You were a short-term user and are only a few weeks off.  Typically there is a period known as "acute" WD that normally lasts 30-90 days?  It can be a period of intense symptoms and severe insomnia?  That doesn't mean symptoms and insomnia end somewhere between 30 and 90 days post jump, it just means that is normally how long acute WD lasts.

 

After that, things slowly get better but it is very nonlinear and very UP and Down for most for some time...a real roller coaster ride.

 

To answer your question, yes sleep drive definitely returns.  Sleep was my worst symptom and for a long time after I jumped CT, I was never sleepy and felt wired all the time.  After I healed, there have been days where I would get so sleepy I would fall asleep on the sofa in the middle of the afternoon on a weekend.  The same thing with going to bed at night.

 

It just takes time and more time.  You'll get there.

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Mine ha gotten better. One thing I learned is even if I don’t feel sleepy, if I lie down with my eyes closed I do eventually fall asleep. So the lack of sleep drive is misleading for me.
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Most of the withdrawal process apepars to be because of glutamatergic kindling, and HPA dysregulation, and hasn't got much to do with GABAA receptors. It takes only about two weeks for GABAARs to upregulate. Damage to GABAA receptors may actually be because of de-coupling of BZD sites from GABAA receptors, or because reversing of the configuration of GABAA receptors (as shown in flumazenil research). I rember the period before I was kindled and when benzos stopped working for putting me to sleep, I would just stop cold-turkey with no perceived withdrawal symptoms, and when I took them again later on, they were working as well as the first time.

 

Hi pacenik, this is interesting - are there references you could point me in the direction?  I am interested in reading about this.  Thanks!

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[f3...]

Hi pacenik, this is interesting - are there references you could point me in the direction?  I am interested in reading about this.  Thanks!

 

At first, in response to the enhanced GABAergic activity induced by a chronic administration of benzodiazepines, upregulation of the glutamatergic neurotransmission occurs. After benzodiazepine withdrawal, glutamatergic overactivity is no longer masked by the heightened inhibitory effects of the GABAergic system, and this imbalance may lead to emergence of seizures, increased muscle tone, and anxiety (File and Fernandes 1994). Interestingly, the NMDA receptors seem to be implicated in tolerance to the sedative (File and Fernandes 1994) and anticonvulsant (Koff et al. 1997) effects of benzodiazepines, as well as the onset of withdrawal symptoms, whereas the α-amino-3-hydroxy-5-methylisoxazole-4-propionate (AMPA) receptors seem to be engaged in the withdrawal process only (Steppuhn and Turski 1993).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5766724/

 

An alternative explanation is that chronic agonist use causes a persistent conformational change and thus a shift in benzodiazepine receptor efficacy in the direction of inverse agonist function (Little, Nutt and Taylor, 1987) and that flumazenil resets the receptor's sensitivity (Nutt and Costello, 1988). In binding to the benzodiazepine receptor flumazenil may alter the coupling of the elements of the GABA/benzodiazepine macromolecular complex modified by benzodiazepine binding, thus restoring the GABA recognition site to its pre-drug affinity (Gonsalves and Gallager, 1985).
http://web.archive.org/web/20110723204716/http://www.bcnc.org.uk/flumazenil.html

 

 

This one is for alcohol, but benzo kindling is even more severe. This also explains why benzo-withdrawn people are sensitive to antibiotics.

Various studies using animals exposed to alcohol have demonstrated that animals with a history of multiple withdrawal episodes exhibited enhanced sensitivity to the convulsant properties of GABAA receptor antagonists

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6761822/

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Thanks for the info, I guess rather than getting into the mechanics of it I’m just looking for a bit of reassurance right now. I wasn’t on these pills for very long but I’m experiencing almost total insomnia at the moment. Going 3-4 days at a time without anything resembling sleep and I feel like I’ve lost my life completely. If this continues I’ll probably lose my job too. I was given Zopiclone as my sleep wasn’t great but I was sleeping, mostly around 6 hours a night. Right now it doesn’t feel like my body will sleep normally at all. I’ve had so many nights without sleep I’m not sure how I’m still functioning. I’m just struggling a bit as there doesn’t seem to be any progress and so much hinges on me being able to be sleep again. I feel like I’ve lost my life and I just exist, somehow.
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[f3...]
I know how it is. I used benzos for sleep. Kept returning to them for sleep, ignorant of the fact that it was benzos that were ruining my sleep. And until I experienced the horrors of cold-turkey withdrawal total insomnia was my biggest fear. In fact, all my troubles are in one way, or another based on chasing sleep. I finished tapering the benzos and wanted to sleep past 3AM so tried amitriptyline for sleep which had the opposite effect it gave me myclonus and prevented me from sleeping for days until I took high doses of benzos. What I can tell you is that some people have luck with sedating strains of medical cannabis. Of the pharmaceuticals doxylamine is probably the safest sleeping aid there is.
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[0c...]

Thanks for the info, I guess rather than getting into the mechanics of it I’m just looking for a bit of reassurance right now. I wasn’t on these pills for very long but I’m experiencing almost total insomnia at the moment. Going 3-4 days at a time without anything resembling sleep and I feel like I’ve lost my life completely. If this continues I’ll probably lose my job too. I was given Zopiclone as my sleep wasn’t great but I was sleeping, mostly around 6 hours a night. Right now it doesn’t feel like my body will sleep normally at all. I’ve had so many nights without sleep I’m not sure how I’m still functioning. I’m just struggling a bit as there doesn’t seem to be any progress and so much hinges on me being able to be sleep again. I feel like I’ve lost my life and I just exist, somehow.

 

 

Hi RedOne,

 

I was a long-time benzo user and have struggled with sleep since I came off in June, 2020.  I had some nights early on of very little sleep which was not only exasperating but scary.  My experience is that my sleep is improving to the degree that I sleep well 4-5 nights out of 7 and of those 2-3 nights that are restless, they are not as restless as they were a few months ago.  When I can't sleep, instead of allowing myself to get worked-up about it (which almost guarantees I won't sleep because I get an adrenaline rush!), I do my best to accept it and get up, do some reading and hope I'll drift off which I generally do now.  I've discovered that I get through the next day after a poor night's sleep fairly well.

 

I decided to not buy into anything that would indicate that my sleep will not improve and trust that my sleep will gradually get better and it has.

 

Kate  :smitten:

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Thanks Kate,

 

I guess I’m just a bit worried about my rather extreme reaction to just being on a z drug a short amount of time. Even when I have not slept I never feel sleepy which is something I’ve never experienced in my life before, normally I’ve just been overwhelmed by sleepiness. I’m concerned I now associate my bed with trauma too because of the frustration of sleepless nights. I wasn’t sleeping great before taking them but certainly a lot better than I am now. It’s like I feel a nervousness at bed time now. I’m very much a fix it person too so taking a back seat and allowing patience and time to work is pretty hard for me too! I’ve done the standard thing of worrying about SFI etc but with the absence of any other symptoms and the chances being so rare it must be withdrawal which is causing this. It’s just trusting nature to do it’s thing when you are seeing little to no improvement which I’m struggling with.

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Sorry for your struggles with sleep.  Not sleeping sucks.

 

However, Ashton says insomnia usually resolves in 6-12 months. 

 

Some take longer and some less time.  However, it's not horrible the entire time, it slowly gets better during whatever amount of time it takes to heal and get your sleep back.

 

You mentioned in a previous post on this thread you were getting 6 hours.  IMO, that's a lot of sleep.  I never would have gone on Benzos had I know how much they can destroy your sleep after you get off. 

 

My pre-Benzo sleep issues were like a gust of wind compared to the category 5 hurricane of Benzo induced insomnia.

 

If you are looking to see some improvement after 3 or 4 weeks off, that isn't going to happen.  Not to burst your bubble but it usually takes a lot longer than that for people to see some improvement.  However, the multiple days of not sleeping should resolve early on?  I went at least 10 times or more of 3 or 4 nights in a row with no sleep.  Then it went into a sleep some one night get no sleep the next night pattern for months.  That slowly turned into getting some sleep for 2 then 3 and even 4 or 5 nights per week with 2 or 3 poor nights per week.  Eventually that turned into 2 or 3 poor nights per month....you get the idea.

 

Sleep returns.  It just takes time and more time.

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I had the same thing kind of pattern as the way just posted.

It DOES get better with time and different people have different rates of time.

I was initially prescribed for what amounted to 1 week of bad sleep....

Wish I could go back and tell myself that was child's play insomnia compared to the "cat 5 hurricane" insomnia the way spoke of. Geez, it was so unbelievably bad!

 

But to answer your question... YES the sleep drive and sleepy feeling comes back!

I can now dose off or get sleepy in the sun, or watching a movie, etc.

I was convinced that it would NEVER come back because it was SOOOOO broken. But I promise it gets better. Just never as fast as we need it to for sure.

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Thankyou for your kind replies. Just having one of those bad days where you feel like there’s no progress. It’s like being in a storm, you get the occasional breaking of the clouds, then it gets dark again. This is the beauty of this forum, that you get that support when you need it. Thankyou.
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I completely get where you are coming from with the gusts and hurricanes. Yes I was sleeping 6 hours ish pre z drug, but getting a couple of nights a week with two hours, so that’s what sent me to the doctor. Before that I would normally sleep 7-8 hours a night with no issues. If I’d only known the abject misery of withdrawal insomnia I would have thrown those pills straight back at him. But it’s like some of you have said on other threads, it can change you for the better and make you appreciate the smaller things in life.
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[9a...]

I started benzos for sleep, so I understand too. I am 3 months off and get 6 to 6.5 hours of sleep. I had periods where I have gotten less sleep that lasted a few days - sometimes 2-3 hours and felt no sleep drive, as you describe. I’ve tried everything almost, so I’ll share what worked for me. I’m just one person, so these may or may not work for you.

 

1. The Fisher Wallace stimulator (also known as the Circadia which doesn’t require a prescription). This is a brain calming device that delivers a tiny current to the brain. It’s been around a long time and is marketed for both depression and insomnia. I had it already as my husband had a severe traumatic brain injury a few years back (made a miraculous full recover.) With it, I managed to sleep at least some every night. It also made me feel relaxed.

 

2. Pills. I tried trazodone (stuffy nose, no sleep but some people love it), remeron (took 1.5mg only and was a zombie but no sleep, but some people like), Benadryl (helped), hydroxyzine (not as good as Benadryl), Unisom (the best by far and I still take 1/4 to 1/5 tablet - I take baby doses of all meds because I am really sensitive), melatonin (nightmares), oral progesterone 5mg (love it but not always effective at low doses and I don’t like large doses), CBD (didn’t work even at 150mg!)

 

So, I now use the Circadia and Unisom (doxylamine) and sleep 6 to 6.5 hours and have throughout with the exception of weeks 1,2 and 6,7. I am now almost 14 weeks out from lowish dose shortish term use. Some prefer to stay away from antihistamines and to some degree I agree. However, at small doses they can help without too many problem.

 

I also agree with time. Over time, I sleep better, with periods of worsening and improvement. I have my weighted blanket, my hot herbal tea, and avoid blue light at night and then I make myself at least stay in bed from 10-6. I sometimes count backwards.

 

This too shall pass...

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[79...]

I posted this in your other thread, but I will repost here:

 

 

 

Alright, here's my experience:

 

Had a traumatic event at the end of Sept 2020 (looking back on it, it wasn't that serious, but at the time it felt overwhelming).

Stopped sleeping. Had 3 days of no sleep. (Which is not normal for me, I am a light sleeper, but once I was asleep, I'd sleep thru the whole night)

 

Went to doc. Prescribed Zopiclone 7.5mg.

 

Started taking in Oct. The first day was outstanding, after 1hr of popping the pill, I felt my anxiety disappear, and 10min later I dozed off. 5hr later I woke up abruptly, like someone had rung an alarm (but it was just my body). But I went back to sleep for another 3hr.

 

When I woke up the 2nd time, I felt refreshed, but with a mild headache, which lasted all day. I thought "man, this is a small price to pay to get sleep".

 

2nd night, I did not get the same effect, but I still slept about 5hr with abrupt wake up and another 3hr sleep.

 

3rd night the same.

 

4th night I panicked because I took the pill and I was not asleep after 1 1/2 hours, so I took 11.25mg Zop. I fell asleep.

 

Slept 5hr, but with a much worse headache, and could not go back to sleep.

 

Spoke with doc, and doc approved for me to do 11.25mg for a month.

 

For the next week and a half, I took 11.25mg nightly, to get 5hr sleep, and I took Tylenol 1000mg to get another 1hr sleep afterward.

 

(I'll make a note here and say that in this time, I heavily researched this drug, and most of the medical literature said the drug was relatively safe to take for up to 4 weeks, and that 2 - 3 days rebound insomnia was about the worst side effect to expect)

 

But the side effects were piling on: Migraine that was stronger every day, abdominal discomfort (not a stomach ache, but generalized discomfort). That zapping voltage across my brain, like somebody stuck a 12v battery's electrodes to your brain matter, which would begin the moment I woke up and get 10x worse by the time it was 6pm - 7pm, and the fatigue! I was dozing off in the car. I could not keep alert. I thought "man my body wants to sleep, so let's sleep" and I parked the car, rolled the seat backwards, and put my cap over my eyes. I felt exhausted, and yet after 2hr of just lying there, no sleep. That's when I called my work to request sick leave.

 

I went home and the same, full blown symptoms (which I now understand were due to reaching tolerance, and the very short acting half life of the drug). And 1 1/2 tablets were not working now either. So I called doc over the phone and explained everything.

 

So doc's advice was to take 15mg and see how that worked for me, and suggested I book a sleep study as I might have sleep apnea (lol).

 

I did not take the 15mg. I wanted off this drug. Instead, I started tapering. My "taper" was going back to 7.5mg for a day, and then 3.5mg for the next 2 weeks (my idea was to do 3.5mg for 1 week, and 1.75mg the second week, but I was not able to reduce from 3.5).

 

Those 2 weeks were the worst weeks of my life. A complete living hell which everyone on this board understands (because we've all gone thru it). On 3.5mg of Zop I would only get 2hr sleep every other day, and zero sleep, alternating. The 2hr nights, I'd wake up to the most side splitting headache I've ever had (like a migraine time 10). And the entire day I'd sit on my sofa, being electrocuted by my brain, and my days all became sitting there like a zombie, watching TV to distract a little, with headache, abdominal pain, the zapping, and extreme fatigue.

 

So many times I was tempted to daily dose Zop to make the sides go away, but I was determined to get off the drug.

 

I read the Ashton Manual, and asked my doc if they would give me Diazepam to wean off that instead. Doc refused saying benzos were addictive (lol).

 

I could have pushed, but I decided risking the switch was not worth it, I was already on 3.5mg daily, what was the point. So I endured for 2 weeks straight with some nights getting 2hr sleep, and some nights getting zero.

 

I did ask the doc if there was anything else that would help me sleep. Doc prescribed Trazadone. The last day of Zop, I took 100mg Traz, and it made me drowsy like I've taken 30mg Benadryl, but even with that and the Zop, I got zero sleep that night.

 

2nd day Zop free, I took Traz 100mg again. This time I got 2hr sleep, and it went on like this for another 2 days. On the 3rd day I got 3hr sleep, and then 4hr sleep.

But Traz had different side effects: Extreme constipation, and stuffy nose out of hell. I had to take laxatives daily to keep regular, because the constipation would not let me sleep. I also had to get a Sinus Rinse kit, to clean my sinuses enough to be able to breathe.

 

It was like that the entire month of Nov. The whole month I was surviving on 4hr sleep a night, only to be drowsy and sedated the entire day. On Dec I started getting 6hr sleep on Traz. I thought "hey maybe my body is starting to heal". So I went off the Traz by tapering to 50mg for 3 days, and then cutting it out. I went back to sleeping for 3hr, but once I was completely off the Traz, I started to sleep 4hr on my own, very broken (It would take me 3hr to fall asleep, and I'd wake up on the hour, but was able to go back for 4hr total).

 

Tried to go back to work. Bam, 1 day later, I get hit with total insomnia again, the entire week zero sleep. So I have to get off work again.

 

Went back to the doc. Traz helps sleep, but do you have any other suggestions? Doc offered Mirtazapine.

 

I tried it and holy crap was one pill sedating, twice as strong as Traz. That night I slept 8hr, waking up once an hour, but the sedating effect so strong I'd fall asleep again almost immediately.

 

I bumped it down to half a tab (7.5mg). Now I'd get 6hr sleep, but sedated as s*t the entire morning and half the afternoon. I got a pill cutter and started taking 3.75mg instead (a 1/4) and that was enough to get me 5hr daily, and the sedation was light enough to endure. Went back to work. Was on Mirt for 1 week like that, and was able to cope. I cut it cold turkey, and the next week I was able to sleep again on my own about 5hr, broken, but no medications (some supplements though, which I will get to). I thought that was it, the worst was over. But the week afterwards, BAM!! full on insomnia again, no sleep for 3 days straight. So I had to go back on Mirt, and with that 3.5mg sleeping around 6hr.

 

That's where I am now. I'm attempting a taper now. I cut pills to 1/4, took 1/4 and cut approx 10% of it with a razor. I was able to get 7hr sleep last night.

 

We'll see how it goes tonight.

 

 

I'm not a success story yet, but getting there. In hindsight, I should have just endured the original insomnia. It would have probably cleared up on its own after 2 - 3 weeks.

 

I am thankful my recovery was relatively quick compared to some of the other poor people on this site. But it still sucks that I have become reliant on meds to sleep. I was able to sleep on my own with no problems prior to all this BS.

 

Supplements that help me:

 

BioPQQ + CoQ10 = A lot of research seemed to point to this substance a good thing to try to repair cellular damage, since it directly influences NDMA receptors (which as per some posts above, is part of the problem with Benzo Brains. I think it made a big difference. It was after 1 week of taking this stuff that I went from 4hr broken sleep, to 7hr reasonably steady sleep.

 

L-Theanine = After a lot of research, it seems that this is a weak Glutamate antagonist. I started taking 200mg before bedtime, and I notice my sleep is definitely deeper now. With 3mg Mirt + 200mg Theanine, I almost felt like last night was a normal sleep.

 

 

Supplements that did not do anything:

 

Melatonin = 3mg makes me drowsy as F* but no sleep.

Lemon Balm = This made me REALLY drowsy but it was so pronounced, I did not sleep.

CDB Oil = I took 60mg before bedtime. Got me relaxed, but no sleep. Studies say you need 150mg to get the sleep effect. I can't afford to do 150mg daily, so no go.

 

So there you go, my experiences with a short term use of that evil drug.

 

It's funny how Zop became a drug of the devil for me, but Mirt was basically sent by Angels. I could not have endured without it.

 

I'll note that one of the hardest things was not knowing what was going to happen. The 2 weeks of excruciating WD's were one of the most frightening things I have ever experienced. Why would God need to send anyone to hell? Just feed the evil doer some benzos at high doses for a month and that person will be there already.

 

I can say this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me, and I've ruptured my tendons right off my arm before.

 

Also the frustration that there is ZERO information on the net, other than this forum. And on this forum, very few people have had experiences with Z-Drugs, and the few that have, have been on them for years (not like us short termers).

 

This is why I'm posting this, for others in the same situation to have a baseline of someone that's had a similar experience, and my outcome so far.

 

I don't blame my GP, they are an extremely nice person who only wanted to help me.  I went to ER once, on a day I had slept zero for 3 days straight, I felt like death. The ER "doc" was the biggest a-hole on this side of the planet. Perhaps it was for the better. I would have taken a benzo if they had offered it.

 

Also EVERYONE thinks it's sleep apnea. EVERY sleep disorder is sleep apnea to these morons. During some of the worst, I almost caved in to go to a Sleep Center. But then what? Maybe they diag me with sleep apnea and stick me with a CPAP which I don't need. Or they find no apnea, and prescribe Benzos for me to sleep (lol). So I ditched that idea.

 

It's lonely when absolutely nobody in the world can help you.

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I completely get where you are coming from with the gusts and hurricanes. Yes I was sleeping 6 hours ish pre z drug, but getting a couple of nights a week with two hours, so that’s what sent me to the doctor. Before that I would normally sleep 7-8 hours a night with no issues. If I’d only known the abject misery of withdrawal insomnia I would have thrown those pills straight back at him. But it’s like some of you have said on other threads, it can change you for the better and make you appreciate the smaller things in life.

 

Even 2 hours for a few nights a week is "doable."  We have been conditioned that it MUST be 7-8 hours every night or something bad will happen to us.  That's simply not true.  I have a person that works under me that routinely (and not from Benzos or other Rx drugs) only gets 2-3 per night for 2-4 days a week, then he plays "catch up" on the sleep towards the weekend.  He's been doing that for years on top of working 2 jobs. 7:30 am to midnight between both jobs Mon. - Fri.  He's still pretty "young" in my book at 36.

 

I would have gladly taken 6 hours most nights with 2 or 3  two hour nights mixed in compared to getting 5-10 hours per week for months and months.  But at the time, like everyone else, I trusted my PCP.  The main issue is that almost all doctors trained in "western medicine" get about 3 weeks total on pharmacology and drugs during all of their medical training.

 

I have been getting 6-8 hours now for over 2 years with 2 zero nights and some 3-4 hour nights mixed in over those 24-27 months.  I'd say that's a massive improvement over the 10 months my insomnia was severe about 4 years ago.

 

 

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[79...]
I started benzos for sleep, so I understand too. I am 3 months off and get 6 to 6.5 hours of sleep. I had periods where I have gotten less sleep that lasted a few days - sometimes 2-3 hours and felt no sleep drive, as you describe. I’ve tried everything almost, so I’ll share what worked for me. I’m just one person, so these may or may not work for you.

 

1. The Fisher Wallace stimulator (also known as the Circadia which doesn’t require a prescription). This is a brain calming device that delivers a tiny current to the brain. It’s been around a long time and is marketed for both depression and insomnia. I had it already as my husband had a severe traumatic brain injury a few years back (made a miraculous full recover.) With it, I managed to sleep at least some every night. It also made me feel relaxed.

 

2. Pills. I tried trazodone (stuffy nose, no sleep but some people love it), remeron (took 1.5mg only and was a zombie but no sleep, but some people like), Benadryl (helped), hydroxyzine (not as good as Benadryl), Unisom (the best by far and I still take 1/4 to 1/5 tablet - I take baby doses of all meds because I am really sensitive), melatonin (nightmares), oral progesterone 5mg (love it but not always effective at low doses and I don’t like large doses), CBD (didn’t work even at 150mg!)

 

So, I now use the Circadia and Unisom (doxylamine) and sleep 6 to 6.5 hours and have throughout with the exception of weeks 1,2 and 6,7. I am now almost 14 weeks out from lowish dose shortish term use. Some prefer to stay away from antihistamines and to some degree I agree. However, at small doses they can help without too many problem.

 

I also agree with time. Over time, I sleep better, with periods of worsening and improvement. I have my weighted blanket, my hot herbal tea, and avoid blue light at night and then I make myself at least stay in bed from 10-6. I sometimes count backwards.

 

I tried the Alpha Stim (similar device to the Fisher Wallace), and all it did was make me so nauseous, I thought I was going to puke. It was not fun while I already had full blown WD symptoms at the time.

 

Trazodone also made me a zombie but I was getting 2hr sleep with it, and the 2nd week that slowly went up to 3hr and eventually 5hr.

 

I tried Mirt almost 3 weeks after I stopped the Zop. It was better than Traz for me, I was getting a solid 5hr with it, but 15mg was wayyyyy too strong. I cut back to a minuscule 3.75mg and that's how I'm sleeping 6hr - 7hr right now.

 

But I am experimenting with CBTi and other supplements twice a week, but that usually means insomnia the whole night. Once thing worked to get me 4hr sleep without the Mirt, and that was something called "New Roots Chill Pills". But it has a laundry list of herbs in it. I, instead, am trying individual ones instead. 5-HTP did not work, Lemon Balm did not work. L-Theanine helps, but not on its own.

 

I'm about to try Valerian maybe tonight or tomorrow. The irony is that this is what I should have done for my original insomnia, instead of seeking the drugs right off the bat. I sure paid a heavy price for that mistake.

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Yeah my doctor wanted me on Mirtazapine which I took along with Zopiclone for a short time, but I found that after a couple of nights of taking it, it lost its effect. I feel envious when I see that some people get knocked out with Mirtazapine because it just has no effect on me whatsoever. This week I’ve been sleeping a little one night and not the next, had some joy with using the hypnosis meditations on the Breethe app. But wary of it becoming another crutch. I’ve had so many zero nights the last month I am not quite sure how my body is still functioning. I have not slept at all the last two nights so hoping for some joy this evening.

 

I’ve tried a shit load of supplements too, not sure what’s working or not right now. Wary of taking too much, but trying tart cherry tablets, taurine, d3, b6 and magnesium glycinate. Not really noticed any difference.

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[79...]

Vitamins are essentially useless for immediate sleep. They help give the body the raw materials to repair itself, but you're still talking about months of time.

 

All the anti-histamine drugs, based on my own experience, seem to only work ONCE a good portion of your own sleep drive is coming back. Once that happens, the anti-histamines work better (they coax your weak sleep drive to kick in). For those still in acute withdrawal, there is no sleep drive to kick in at all. From my own research, the best one to use is Mirt. It has a very clean anti-histamine action without messing with other hormones at low doses (7.5mg, 3.75mg, etc).

 

As far as the hypnosis/meditation thing. If it is helping you, why are you worried about getting addicted to it? That's a good addiction IMO. We would all go on a drug that guaranteed us 8hr sleep every single night with absolutely zero side effects for the rest of our lives. So why shun a practice that has zero side effects if it's beneficial?

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  • 2 weeks later...
Had a bit of a better week this one, finally slept two nights in a row. But then it was followed by two sleepless nights again. It feels like the pills have messed with my sleep architecture. I do not deep sleep at all, its light with some dreams but I never wake up feeling refreshed at all. Is this something any of you have experienced as well? On the really bad nights its straight into vivid dream sleep for short bouts. I know this is a phenomena called REM rebound so that doesnt surprise me, but is no deep sleep a common thing during withdrawal too?
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  • 2 weeks later...
[79...]

Hi all, I've been following this thread, as I am also am still having so very little sleep over three years off of clonazepam and almost five years off of Ambien.

Every few weeks/months I will get maybe 6 or 7 hours of broken sleep, but I'm uplifted by that. Then it goes away and I am back to 3-4 hours or two or less if I am stressed about something.  I still have RLS some nights, which was a side effect of taking clonazepam after the first year or so.  Eating something sweet during the day causes worse flare ups of RLS  as well as my feet being too warm. Nerve pain mostly in my legs that feels like something is physically pinching the skin. If I rub the skin it stops.

I am constantly tired with little energy.  I have all over body stiffness that does not go away.  Aches and pains that have been diagnosed as osteoarthritis and a bone spur in my knees. Physical therapy has helped with the pain to a point. 

The ringing in my ears started the first week of a rapid taper and still with me.

Last night I woke up feeling like I was going to vomit and then I did. I also had diarrhea. I was so worried my husband would be sick, but he was fine. 

Not sure where this came from, as I always wear a mask when I am out and wipe everything down with Clorox wipes.

Anyway, I was awake after the 10 PM vomiting and didn't fall asleep until right before my husband got up at 7 AM.

A typical night for me is to go to bed and fall asleep within 15 minutes, wake up an hour later and then spend hours trying to calm my brain down to get back to sleep. That first hour is dreamless, once I get back to sleep I dream.  Every few weeks or months, I will initially sleep for more than an hour when I firstgo to bed. Sometimes 3 or 4 hours, then I wake up, won't go back to sleep, so  read to get sleepy again, do some self hypnosis, pressure points and deep breathing hoping something will help. Like most people on here, what works once or twice stops. 

I feel not so alone when I find these posts, but keep hoping I will heal and sleep again.

Hang in there.

NG

 

The problem for us short termers is that we have next to zero information about how short term use affects us, and if it means a faster healing process, or if it doesn't make a difference compared to long term.

 

I think we suffer psychologically because of all the horror stories of the long termers (and worrying that we too, are in the same boat).

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Andros01 you make such an excellent point. I shall delete my comment because it serves no useful purpose for anyone. 

I hope you will accept my apologies.

NG

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[79...]

Andros01 you make such an excellent point. I shall delete my comment because it serves no useful purpose for anyone. 

I hope you will accept my apologies.

NG

 

nightengale, I hope you didn't take offense to my post. I know you mean well, and I know, like all of us are still suffering.

 

It's just frustrating not to have a baseline of others who have done short term stints of these drugs. Most of the people on this board are long term users who have protracted healing. My heart goes out to all of you, but at the same time it's terrifying to us short termers. On the other hand, maybe there aren't that many short term users on the board because they don't need it. Maybe they healed up quickly and are back to their normal lives.

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Andros01, I am not offended in any way. You made an excellent point and I agree with you. We are all in this together. 

You could be right about the lack of short term users.

NG

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