My uncle’s flumazenil experience

Hello

 

I am here to talk about my uncle’s experience with the drug flumazenil and how he feels now ,His history 7 months Xanax use 2 years tapering jump off date oct 22 . He was giving a sublingual pill to take at home 1 pill every 8 hours has Ben on flumazenil for 1 month so far . He said he will give me the lowdown tomorrow when he comes over. I’m VERY interested in this as I have Hurd many times about this drug for resting the benzo receptors . I wasn’t told anything about him doing this until tonight! We don’t talk much as he has Ben on his own journey with benzodiazepines just as I have . So this should be very interesting to say the least. We will see just what this supposed wonder drug is all about..stay tuned

I had flumazenil infusions in the morning. I don't know how it works with pills, every 8 hours, because I wouldn't want flumazenil in me at night. It's the opposite of benzos, so I don't know how can you fall asleep while still having it in your blood.

Hellos

Ok guys I just got done talking to him BY PHONE as he is not able to drive he said in his state. He doesn’t feel safe on the road. So I offered to pick him up and he declined the offer. He told me all he wants to do is lay down. Well this doesn’t seem to promising. But it’s still early and maybe all this is to much of a shock to his system? I don’t know.... I asked him if he felt like a new person and he said not really but sort of... then I asked him what side effects is he getting ? and he said he doesn’t want to talk about them because then they come back ! So I guess it’s not all peachy after all? I told him to give us a list of old symptoms that went away and new symptoms that he has gotten since the administration of his new medicine program. He said ok he will . So there is today’s prognosis , I don’t know how I feel about it as the jury is still out!  and I’m not convinced that this is a viable source of healing for everyone perhaps. He is going to send me a email with the subject’s I requested and the I will post them here! .... jimmy j

I am very interested in this thread.  Thank you.  My doctor has talked about this when I am done and two weeks after jump ( I am half way).  But he uses a topical cream that is applied every 6hours.  I am going to ask him about the tablet form and why he uses the topical cream.  I will be back to see what you and your uncle have to say about this.

I had flumazenil infusions in the morning. I don't know how it works with pills, every 8 hours, because I wouldn't want flumazenil in me at night. It's the opposite of benzos, so I don't know how can you fall asleep while still having it in your blood.

 

Did you just start those infusions pace?  Do they help?

Did you just start those infusions pace?  Do they help?

They help, but only so much.

Did you just start those infusions pace?  Do they help?

They help, but only so much.

 

How long ago did you do them?

How long ago did you do them?

I did them in January. It is by no means replacement for a slow taper (unless you instant-detox using flumazenil, which can go either way, with no withdrawals at all, or with the worst withdrawals possible). Ideally, you'd taper fastest that you're able to taper while having no symptoms, and then receive flumazenil post-jump.

How long ago did you do them?

I did them in January. It is by no means replacement for a slow taper (unless you instant-detox using flumazenil, which can go either way, with no withdrawals at all, or with the worst withdrawals possible). Ideally, you'd taper fastest that you're able to taper while having no symptoms, and then receive flumazenil post-jump.

 

This January?  Are your ears any better?  Have the withdrawals eased any?  I was looking into this earlier. I don’t think there’s any place in my state that does them though. 😔

This January?  Are your ears any better?  Have the withdrawals eased any?  I was looking into this earlier. I don’t think there’s any place in my state that does them though. 😔

No ears are the same. I still feel like utter crap and wish I had tapered. I have no idea why some symptoms are resolved by flumazenil and why some aren't. E.g. before last infusion that I'd receveid, I had severe agitation and started having some insomnia, and after the infusion insomnia resolved, but none of the other symptoms were affected. My best guess is that symptoms that stem from un-coupling of BZD sites from GABA_A receptors are resolved by flumazenil, whereas those that stem from glutamatergic side of things are unnafected by flumazenil. Anticonvulsant would probably help with that, but I still haven't gathered enough courage to try any. This is why I think it's of utmost importance to taper slowly. There's only so little you can do to affect the symptoms if you go cold-turkey (or rapid "taper"), even if you have the access to all the drugs and treatments that there are.

This January?  Are your ears any better?  Have the withdrawals eased any?  I was looking into this earlier. I don’t think there’s any place in my state that does them though. 😔

No ears are the same. I still feel like utter crap and wish I had tapered. I have no idea why some symptoms are resolved by flumazenil and why some aren't. E.g. before last infusion that I'd receveid, I had severe agitation and started having some insomnia, and after the infusion insomnia resolved, but none of the other symptoms were affected. My best guess is that symptoms that stem from un-coupling of BZD sites from GABA_A receptors are resolved by flumazenil, whereas those that stem from glutamatergic side of things are unnafected by flumazenil. Anticonvulsant would probably help with that, but I still haven't gathered enough courage to try any. This is why I think it's of utmost importance to taper slowly. There's only so little you can do to affect the symptoms if you go cold-turkey (or rapid "taper"), even if you have the access to all the drugs and treatments that there are.

 

I’m sorry you went through that for some relief and didn’t get any!  😔

 

I wonder how long it takes the receptors to recouple. I know they can. I’ve just never looked up how long it takes.

 

I do not believe that a chemical can correct a brain malfunction. This is contrary to any common sense.

I do not believe that a chemical can correct a brain malfunction. This is contrary to any common sense.

But it does help. When benzos un-couple BZD sites of GABA_A receptors, it can take a really long time for that to reverse. Flumazenil can do it instantly. The only problem is that un-coupling of BZD sites isn't the only reason for having symptoms. It is best to taper, and to taper slowly enough so as to be asymptomatic. Some people can't do it, because they reached tolerance withdrawal (and as such are having symptoms on their full dose), but Paxia and myself never reached tolerance and could've gotten off these drugs painlessly had we tapered.

Maybe it resolves things caused by receptor probs but not downstream effects on immune and other systems caused by WD?

Maybe it resolves things caused by receptor probs but not downstream effects on immune and other systems caused by WD?

My thinking goes along the lines that cold-turkey does something horrible to glutamatergic system, and probably causes autonomic dysregulation along the HPA axis. Flumazenil cannot affect that. Three weeks into cold-turkey I stabilized (and more, was feeling 100%) by just two days of low-dose diazepam rescue doses. Was feeling fine for days, so could've probably been stable on even lower dose. Should've just continued taking low-dose diazepam. Then tapered slowly enough not to feel any symptoms. Unfortunately, I don't think my doctor understood how seriously I was hurting, and people here kept telling me there's no danger. My life now lies in tattered ruins.

I have a theory but that’s all it is right now until I find some time to more research. But I think it has ALOT more to do with the phosphorylation of Tyrosine kinases than gaba receptors recouping. Tyrosine kinases are the signaling pathways of  (ATP) and  (GTP). So from what I’ve researched so far.....  benzos inhibit tyrosine kinases in alpha subunits so essentially blocks signaling pathways which have to restore and regrow after inhibition. I think that’s why beta blocker withdrawals resemble benzo withdrawals. Beta blocker inhibit tyrosine kinases on beta subunits. ALSO, that’s why people going through both withdrawals experience mast cell activation. The treatment for mast cell activation is tyrosine kinase inhibitors. It’s definitely tied in somewhere. I just have to find out how!  Thing is....  tyrosine kinases can repair the signaling payhways. It just takes time and vitamins to give them the energy they need to repair. That’s why I’ve started getting full vitamin panels so I can make sure the nutrients my body needs are at normal healthy levels. Again, just my theory though....  I still have to figure out how it all fits together.

I have a theory but that’s all it is right now until I find some time to more research. But I think it has ALOT more to do with the phosphorylation of Tyrosine kinases than gaba receptors recouping. Tyrosine kinases are the signaling pathways of  (ATP) and  (GTP). So from what I’ve researched so far.....  benzos inhibit tyrosine kinases in alpha subunits so essentially blocks signaling pathways which have to restore and regrow after inhibition. I think that’s why beta blocker withdrawals resemble benzo withdrawals. Beta blocker inhibit tyrosine kinases on beta subunits. ALSO, that’s why people going through both withdrawals experience mast cell activation. The treatment for mast cell activation is tyrosine kinase inhibitors. It’s definitely tied in somewhere. I just have to find out how!  Thing is....  tyrosine kinases can repair the signaling payhways. It just takes time and vitamins to give them the energy they need to repair. That’s why I’ve started getting full vitamin panels so I can make sure the nutrients my body needs are at normal healthy levels. Again, just my theory though....  I still have to figure out how it all fits together.

ATP definitively has something to do with inability of glutamate excitoxcicity to calm down and is the reason why this lasts so long. Unfortunately, it's impossible to supplement with ATP, because it's orally unavailable, and you'd need a continuous infusion. For some reasons GABA_A agonists have ability to stop this process temporarily. People who've been on propofol report being free from withdrawal symptoms for some time after that. What I'd like to see is ganaxolone and imidazenil replacing benzos (and gaboxadol replacing Z-drugs) like benzos replaced barbiturates. I'm sure they will have some dependency issues too, but nothing like benzos.

I wonder what the connection with propofol and ATP is........  there’s obviously something there!

It’s apparently the calcium channel blockade of propofol. 

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5272954/