Is benzo withdrawal normal or are we just unlucky?

Do you all think most people experience withdrawal upon discontinuation, or are we a small percentage that do?

To be honest, I don't think it's identified by doctors and patients just take the treatment recommendation that they're given. If true, this must mean is that there are a large number of people who are on hardcore psych meds which somewhat cover benzo withdrawal symptoms.

 

There must also be a number of people who are effectively trapped on a benzo, some who have been updosed once or more, or switched benzos. Some people are on benzos more because they fear the consequence of withdrawal than because they think it's good for them.

 

It seems reasonable to assume that many of these eventually will go through a crushing withdrawal at some point in the future, either to benzos or another psych med.

 

I don't think you can call us unlucky. The worst of the worst? Sure, they are unlucky. The people who got roped in by their doctor, when they would not have otherwise gone this route, I don't think they're unlucky. I think they are victims of an abuse. Sometimes I think that they unwittingly volunteered for an experiment because so much is being learned about the human brain from the exploitation of vulnerable people. I don't assume a great level of humanity for people in power because it's proving not to be the case a lot of the time.

 

It's not normal but "just unlucky" doesn't seem to cut it when this is an epidemic.

My psych doc says about 90% of people can take them regularly with few consequences.  The other 10% get roped into some sort of tolerance. 

 

However, what’s not included in that 90% is what happens to people who take them long-term and try to stop which is the group I fall into. I took them for 15 years with seemingly minor issues before they started giving me fatigue, depression, numbness, and cognitive difficulties.  I think a lot of people sort of stay on them forever.

Yes, maybe unlucky is not the right word. In some ways I consider myself one of the lucky ones because I am having less intense symptoms and more healing. I feel like I am doing so much better now.

 

Maybe I should have phrased it this way: Is benzo withdrawal normal or is it more uncommon?

 

I bring up this topic because my psych still seems to think that my experience is a bit uncommon. It still amazes me that most doctors are still completely unaware of this problem. That made me wonder just how common our experience is.

 

Thanks,

90% don’t have intense issues and 10 do? Get outa here. I’d predict that’s reversible.

I don't know. When I started using lorazepam for sleep I used it for sleep, as one would use sedating antihistamine. So, I would use it for months on end, and it would stop working, after which I would just stop using it, with no perceived problems. So kindling is most difinitively real. Had I been aware of it, once off, I would've stayed off for good.

90% don’t have intense issues and 10 do? Get outa here. I’d predict that’s reversible.

 

No, what I was saying is that 90% don’t have intense issues WHILE taking them.  I know people that have been taking them every day for years with no plans to stop.  I think you would find a lot more people on this board if that 10% of people with major problems shot up to say 50%. 

 

Anyone sucked into long-term use probably runs a serious risk of intense withdrawal if they try to stop.  Using myself as an example, I started taking Klonopin regularly in June 2001 eventually up to dose of 3mg per day.  In the summer of 2003, I got off of Klonopin fairly easily (with the help of mirtazapine) with a 2-3 week taper and was off completely for a month.  However, I was stupid and found life easier on Klonopin and went back to it.  I did the same thing in September of 2005 (little problems getting off this time) and went back on Klonopin again after a month.  So, it was just decided that I would stay on Klonopin.  Fast forward to 2019.  When I tried to get off this time, all hell broke loose and I was hit with intense and horrifying symptoms.  I’m sure some of that had to do with age and some of it kindling, but the fact I had been on it for so long without a break was probably the main culprit. 

 

Technically, I was a long-term user when getting off those first couple of times and did it with relative ease.  But, eventually the long-term use caught up with me.  So, I’m lucky compared to many here.  I’m also a lot dumber than most people here but my experience to that point hadn’t been extremely disturbing.  Never reached tolerance so to speak but my emotional system was simply shut down which is why I needed to try and get off.  I did get off for 10 months but caved and started up again.  Couldn’t accept that things could be so terrible and was trying to fix a struggling marriage, hold a job and raise two young children.  Lot of stress and then Covid hit.

Ah yes, would make sense WHILE taking them. My mistake

Yes, maybe unlucky is not the right word. In some ways I consider myself one of the lucky ones because I am having less intense symptoms and more healing. I feel like I am doing so much better now.

 

Maybe I should have phrased it this way: Is benzo withdrawal normal or is it more uncommon?

 

I bring up this topic because my psych still seems to think that my experience is a bit uncommon. It still amazes me that most doctors are still completely unaware of this problem. That made me wonder just how common our experience is.

 

Thanks,

I'm really happy for you! Actually, me too. That's why I didn't want to say "unlucky" because it doesn't match how I feel. I think it can be a bit of a make or break thing and I think that luck plays a part as well as skill does.

 

Have you ever seen such a long sentence that only has words with one syllable as the last one I wrote? 26 words. I have some weird stuff going on where I almost feel like I have unlocked a deep potential. I have these random thoughts like "that was a weird sentence, feels like all the words were very short" and then I check it and my intuition is completely right. This kind of thing happens all the time and I like it but at the same time, feel like my family and friends would worry if I described these things to them. Like, it's not normal.

 

That's why I said that, because I don't feel at all normal but I feel really lucky to have this perspective. Still lucky even though it's really quite a lot to handle and I worry about my ability to get back to supporting myself if I don't experience a little more slowing down of the senses. I seem to have these unique cognitive abilities, a bit like how my brother who has autism can say what day of the week it was for a date many years in the past, just how his memory and cognition functions. Mine seems a more broader ability but it comes with some social challenges.

Perhaps of interest ... from the Benzodiazepine Information Coalition:

 

Estimates of Patients Experiencing Withdrawal

https://www.benzoinfo.com/estimates-of-patients-experiencing-withdrawal/

Thank you very much Libertas.

You are most welcome, Bibsjo.  Here are some more stats for you, culled from the Prescriber Pamphlet series from The Alliance for Benzodiazepine Best Practices:

 

Even at low dosages, physiologic dependence may develop in as little as 2-4 weeks

 

After 4 weeks of use, nearly half of patients will experience withdrawal upon cessation

 

15-44% experience moderate to severe symptoms upon withdrawal

 

10-15% of patients experience symptoms of withdrawal months to years after completion of their taper

 

40% of BZD users >4 weeks cannot taper using the generic medical school method (4 - 6 week tapers)

 

Source:

https://benzoreform.org/pamphlet-details-and-references/

Dr. Malcolm Lader once estimated the following:

 

One third of long term BZD users experience zero withdrawal symptoms upon cessation.

 

Another one third experience mild to moderate symptoms lasting several weeks. 

 

The final third experience moderate to severe symptoms lasting several months to many years. 

 

 

The overwhelming majority of us in this forum fall into the third category.  However, it is important to note that the majority of this third category belong to the 6 week to 24 month recovery profile.  It is a small percentage of people who take longer.  This forum is heavily skewed towards that group. 

“I estimate about 20-30% of people who are on a benzodiazepine like diazepam have trouble coming off and — of those — about a third have very distressing symptoms.”

 

Professor Malcolm H Lader, Professor of Clinical Psychopharmacology, Institute of Psychiatry, University of London:

 

July 27, 2011

BBC Radio 4 - Face the Facts, Prescribed Addiction

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b012wxxw

 

And, of course, it can only ever be an estimation, since the actual numbers aren't collected anywhere.

I have written in other posts about the 3 phases of detox in our body, in each cell to be specific. For each phase the body has different enzymes. Many people have genetic defects or factors which prevent a 100% process in either one of the 3 phases or even in 3. In my case, I found out, the process in which toxins are made water soluble to be released over the kidneys, does not work properly. A HUGE thing. Cause my body cannot get rid of the toxins and therefore stores them into tissues and organs. People with a lack of enzymes of Phase no 1 cannot tolerate caffeine,and lots of meds.

These are just 2 examples that the way we can handle meds and the question do we suffer in wd or not, is not just a fact of dosage, how to withdraw and so on, a lot is set in our genes.

 

Today doctors are able to run these tests before giving a med I would highly recommend this but yet those tests are expensive and not many doctors know how to run them and interpret the results.

Taking benzos everyday for years every person will have severe withdrawals. Nobody can escape it. Those that take them sparingly for years will not have withdrawals but claim they do but they don't.

 

Taking benzos everyday for years every person will have severe withdrawals. Nobody can escape it. Those that take them sparingly for years will not have withdrawals but claim they do but they don't.

 

Scooby99,

 

Making an absolute statement like this doesn't make it true, if you make it then be prepared to back it up with proof. 

 

Pamster

I think it's a lot higher, we're all human and the body adapts easily. Its just dependant on tolerance, health and length of time taking benzos.

 

 

Taking benzos everyday for years every person will have severe withdrawals. Nobody can escape it. Those that take them sparingly for years will not have withdrawals but claim they do but they don't.

 

Scooby99,

 

Making an absolute statement like this doesn't make it true, if you make it then be prepared to back it up with proof. 

 

Pamster

 

I got this quote from addiction centers of America.

 

Most benzo withdrawal symptoms start within 24 hours and can last from a few days to several months, depending on the length of the abuse and the strength of the benzo used. Prolonged withdrawal isn’t uncommon, however. About 10 percent of people who abuse benzos still feel withdrawal symptoms years after they have stopped taking the drugs.

 

[nobbc]https://americanaddictioncenters.org/benzodiazepine/length-of-withdrawal[/nobbc]

 

 

Edit: Deactivated commercial link.

Taking benzos everyday for years every person will have severe withdrawals. Nobody can escape it. Those that take them sparingly for years will not have withdrawals but claim they do but they don't.

 

Scooby99,

 

Making an absolute statement like this doesn't make it true, if you make it then be prepared to back it up with proof. 

 

Pamster

 

I got this quote from addiction centers of America.

 

Most benzo withdrawal symptoms start within 24 hours and can last from a few days to several months, depending on the length of the abuse and the strength of the benzo used. Prolonged withdrawal isn’t uncommon, however. About 10 percent of people who abuse benzos still feel withdrawal symptoms years after they have stopped taking the drugs.

 

[nobbc]https://americanaddictioncenters.org/benzodiazepine/length-of-withdrawal[/nobbc]

 

 

Edit: Deactivated commercial link.

 

Not credible Scooby99, this is a commercial enterprise in the business of making money by ripping people off of benzo's then sending them home to suffer, at which point they'll reach out to BenzoBuddies for help to do it safely and for free.

Taking benzos everyday for years every person will have severe withdrawals. Nobody can escape it. Those that take them sparingly for years will not have withdrawals but claim they do but they don't.

 

Scooby99,

 

Making an absolute statement like this doesn't make it true, if you make it then be prepared to back it up with proof. 

 

Pamster

 

I got this quote from addiction centers of America.

 

Most benzo withdrawal symptoms start within 24 hours and can last from a few days to several months, depending on the length of the abuse and the strength of the benzo used. Prolonged withdrawal isn’t uncommon, however. About 10 percent of people who abuse benzos still feel withdrawal symptoms years after they have stopped taking the drugs.

 

[nobbc]https://americanaddictioncenters.org/benzodiazepine/length-of-withdrawal[/nobbc]

 

 

Edit: Deactivated commercial link.

 

Not credible Scooby99, this is a commercial enterprise in the business of making money by ripping people off of benzo's then sending them home to suffer, at which point they'll reach out to BenzoBuddies for help to do it safely and for free.

 

Ok, i got something better

 

 

"When a benzodiazepine is used regularly for 8 weeks or longer, the agent should be gradually tapered rather than stopped abruptly because of the potential to precipitate withdrawal. High-dose and LONG-TERM use are associated with a GREATER chance of developing benzodiazepine withdrawal."

 

https://www.pharmacytoday.org/article/S1042-0991(20)30219-X/pdf

 

Taking benzos everyday for years every person will have severe withdrawals. Nobody can escape it. Those that take them sparingly for years will not have withdrawals but claim they do but they don't.

 

Scooby99,

 

What I took issue with was your phrasing, you can't make absolute statements "every person will have severe withdrawals", you have no way of proving that every person will have severe withdrawals. 

 

Nor can you say" nobody can escape it" because you can't know this either. 

 

And you can't say "Those that take them sparingly for years will not have withdrawals but claim they do but they don't." because you simply cannot know everyone who has ever taken benzo's.

 

Do you understand the point I'm trying to make?  Please adopt a more nuanced writing style that promotes ideas and discussion rather than false absolutes which shut it down.

 

Pamster

I have written in other posts about the 3 phases of detox in our body, in each cell to be specific. For each phase the body has different enzymes. Many people have genetic defects or factors which prevent a 100% process in either one of the 3 phases or even in 3. In my case, I found out, the process in which toxins are made water soluble to be released over the kidneys, does not work properly. A HUGE thing. Cause my body cannot get rid of the toxins and therefore stores them into tissues and organs. People with a lack of enzymes of Phase no 1 cannot tolerate caffeine,and lots of meds.

These are just 2 examples that the way we can handle meds and the question do we suffer in wd or not, is not just a fact of dosage, how to withdraw and so on, a lot is set in our genes.

 

Today doctors are able to run these tests before giving a med I would highly recommend this but yet those tests are expensive and not many doctors know how to run them and interpret the results.

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for posting this.  I don’t have a colon - I had to have it removed.  Would thus be contributing to the length of my w/d?

 

Thank you for your help.

Taking benzos everyday for years every person will have severe withdrawals. Nobody can escape it. Those that take them sparingly for years will not have withdrawals but claim they do but they don't.

 

I took Klonopin every day for years and had ZERO withdrawals the first like 5 (at least) times I basically cold turkeyed (went from anywhere from 0.5-2mg down to nothing within a couple of weeks at the most). Now things are different being that I kindled myself so many times and am also in tolerance. How I wish I'd known.