Yet Another Memantine Thread (because the others are old)

I know BB member Mamoot has posted using it ( http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=202399.0. Has anyone else? Really need to discuss this with others who have tried it or are trying it.

 

Did you have GI issues with it (stomach upset, nausea, lack of appetite) and if/when did these issues subside. My Endo and Psych agreed on me trying this. I'm hoping the GI issues will ease up once I've been on it for 4 weeks (halfway through week 3).

When I tried it I didn't have any GI issues other than not feeling existence of my stomach, or hunger. Which is understandable, since I was slightly dissociated.

Well I've found out that Valium can cause loss of appetite snd nausea, and on the higher dose of Valium I never felt good, I think the two together are causing my issues. When I previously tapered Valium, I felt better once I got down to around 6 mg. Ugh! Just can't win. May have to stop the Memantine and retry it when I get to the lower dose of Valium, when it would also probably be needed more.

I've seen some people in the old posts reporting being on up to 120 mg doses. I don't know how they're able to tolerate it. Also it is a dopamine agonist, so at such high doses it can be very addictive, not merely dependence-forming.

I've seen some people in the old posts reporting being on up to 120 mg doses. I don't know how they're able to tolerate it. Also it is a dopamine agonist, so at such high doses it can be very addictive, not merely dependence-forming.

 

 

120 mg? Eeek!  I had ended up stopping it anyway. Had appt with Psych Nurse Practioner, and she said it's like SSRI/SSNRI's, it takes time for your stomach to adjust, which is why Alzheimers patients are started on 5 mg, then titrated up to therapeutic levels, usually 20 mg, just as they do with SSRI/SSNRI's. 

120 mg? Eeek!  I had ended up stopping it anyway. Had appt with Psych Nurse Practioner, and she said it's like SSRI/SSNRI's, it takes time for your stomach to adjust, which is why Alzheimers patients are started on 5 mg, then titrated up to therapeutic levels, usually 20 mg, just as they do with SSRI/SSNRI's.

At such doses it's probably probably like being high ketamine. It's a little wonder that you would feel significant relief from benzo withdrawal at such doses. So do you plan to take high doses of magnesium-glycinate durign the taper instead?

120 mg? Eeek!  I had ended up stopping it anyway. Had appt with Psych Nurse Practioner, and she said it's like SSRI/SSNRI's, it takes time for your stomach to adjust, which is why Alzheimers patients are started on 5 mg, then titrated up to therapeutic levels, usually 20 mg, just as they do with SSRI/SSNRI's.

At such doses it's probably probably like being high ketamine. It's a little wonder that you would feel significant relief from benzo withdrawal at such doses. So do you plan to take high doses of magnesium-glycinate durign the taper instead?

 

Not high dosing the Magnesium Glycynate, just doing normal 400 mg dose, though i've yet to see any benefits unlike others who say it helped with sleep issues. Makes no sense to take any high doses of Mag because our kidneys efficiently remove excess. High dosing would be a waste of money. I learned a lot when I had Hypomagnesemia. Plus high dosing any form of Mag, including Glycinate will also upset your digestive system and lead to diarrhea.  I have enough to deal with with Benzo Belly, don't need excess Mag in any form to make it worse.

Not high dosing the Magnesium Glycynate, just doing normal 400 mg dose, though i've yet to see any benefits unlike others who say it helped with sleep issues. Makes no sense to take any high doses of Mag because our kidneys efficiently remove excess. High dosing would be a waste of money. I learned a lot when I had Hypomagnesemia. Plus high dosing any form of Mag, including Glycinate will also upset your digestive system and lead to diarrhea.  I have enough to deal with with Benzo Belly, don't need excess Mag in any form to make it worse.

Yeah, but I ofter hear that supplements are dosed in excess because of absorption issues. Have you tried supplementing with niacin and taurine?

Have you tried supplementing with niacin and taurine?

 

No. And I'm leery of adding too many supplements without something showing a benefit that makes it worth throwing the money at buying it. I also don't want to add anything now, until I've been taking what I'm now on fo some time. One of the reasons for picking the Glycinate was it's readily absorbed. Which is why I used it for my Hypomagnesemia after getting off of the PPI. It worked very well for that.

No. And I'm leery of adding too many supplements without something showing a benefit that makes it worth throwing the money at buying it. I also don't want to add anything now, until I've been taking what I'm now on fo some time. One of the reasons for picking the Glycinate was it's readily absorbed. Which is why I used it for my Hypomagnesemia after getting off of the PPI. It worked very well for that.

Off-topic, but SurvivingAntidepressants.org is truly a great resource for all drugs, not just antidepressants, I just found this:

 

http://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/2533-that-acid-reflux-pill-may-be-causing-your-health-problems/

No. And I'm leery of adding too many supplements without something showing a benefit that makes it worth throwing the money at buying it. I also don't want to add anything now, until I've been taking what I'm now on fo some time. One of the reasons for picking the Glycinate was it's readily absorbed. Which is why I used it for my Hypomagnesemia after getting off of the PPI. It worked very well for that.

Off-topic, but SurvivingAntidepressants.org is truly a great resource for all drugs, not just antidepressants, I just found this:

 

http://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/2533-that-acid-reflux-pill-may-be-causing-your-health-problems/

 

Nice to see them address PPI dependency.

“Studies have shown that once you’re on them, it’s hard to stop taking them,” said Dr. Shoshana J. Herzig of Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston. “It’s almost like an addiction.”

 

P.P.I.’s work by blocking the production of acid in the stomach, but the body reacts by overcompensating and, she said, “revving up production” of acid-making cells. “You get excess growth of those cells in the stomach, so when you unblock production, you have more of the acid-making machinery,” she said.

 

 

Not quite. They shut off the proton pumps. This on turn increases gastrin production, and it's gastrin that tells your body to make acid, typically in response to eating. The excess gastrin will build up, your body will remove some of it but not all, so the levels remain high. Mine was 527 fasting while on the PPI, it went down to 25 after I finished the Netazepide (which is well below the normal limit of 100), which took only 44 days to fix the problem. Nertazepide works by preventing the gastrin from being used by blocking gastrin receptors. I stopped the Pantoprozole only a week after starting Netazepide, which led to the proton pumps turning back on. But with the gastrin receptors blocked, the proton pumps get no signal to make acid, eventually the excesss gastrin is used and removed over the next 3 or 4 weeks. Once the Netazepide is stopped, gastrin levels return to normal and the proton pumps work the way they were meant to. The doctor quote above is not entirely accurate, she needs to read the 3 Scandinavian studies and the work being done by Hammersmith Medical Research in the UK. What I just described is based on all the above. You don't get an excess growth of gastrin cells, or Proton Pumps. You do get benign tissue growths, they go away once the PPI is stopped, but those growths do not increase acid.

 

Their info may be reliable on antidepressents, but they are incorrect regarding PPI's. And while the Hypomagnesemia and other nutritional deficiencies were mentioned, the biggest problem is kidney damage and even kidney failure. I was lucky they didn't damage my kidneys. The info posted is old, so the doctor might have been going by the prevailing theory at the time. The Scandinavian studies (Norway, Sweden and Denmark, major universities), were still in their early stages. Hammersmith's research only took place within the past few years. We know much more today than in 2012.

 

Neverteless, it's good to see them point out another drug that causes physical dependency that the medical establishment falsely labelled as safe. Here in the US, the FDA added black box warnings to PPI's. Sadly, they are still sold OTC, and they either shouldn't be, or treatred like pseudoephedrine and moved behind the pharmacy counter because people are ignoring the warnings and taking them too long.

 

I never had GERD/Acid Reflux. A drug rep convinced my then PCP in Maryland that they would protect me from NSAID ulcers. I would have preferred taking my chance with an ulcer. Then my former original PCP here in Delaware never did anything about stopping them, when I no longer took NSAID's. One of many reasons she's no longer my doctor.  I tried on my own to stop by substituting ranitidine, only to have Rebound Acid Hypersecretion (RAHS). She sent me to idiot GI doc who runs all tests, says there's no reason for me to be on PPI's, decides to switch me to ranitidine and mirtazepine for my stomach pain for the RAHS. Took only 2 of the mirtz, had horrible restlesss legs second night, fired him as my doctor, fired my PCP too. Found a great GI doc who helped me get Netazepide.

 

I haven't had any GERD symptoms until I tried getting of Klonopin, and the Valium. Right now Famotidine (H2 Blocker), DAO supplement and Sesamin have stopped the GERD typre symptoms, as long as I'm careful with my diet as well.

Not quite. They shut off the proton pumps. This on turn increases gastrin production, and it's gastrin that tells your body to make acid, typically in response to eating. The excess gastrin will build up, your body will remove some of it but not all, so the levels remain high. Mine was 527 fasting while on the PPI, it went down to 25 after I finished the Netazepide (which is well below the normal limit of 100), which took only 44 days to fix the problem. Nertazepide works by preventing the gastrin from being used by blocking gastrin receptors. I stopped the Pantoprozole only a week after starting Netazepide, which led to the proton pumps turning back on. But with the gastrin receptors blocked, the proton pumps get no signal to make acid, eventually the excesss gastrin is used and removed over the next 3 or 4 weeks. Once the Netazepide is stopped, gastrin levels return to normal and the proton pumps work the way they were meant to. The doctor quote above is not entirely accurate, she needs to read the 3 Scandinavian studies and the work being done by Hammersmith Medical Research in the UK. What I just described is based on all the above. You don't get an excess growth of gastrin cells, or Proton Pumps. You do get benign tissue growths, they go away once the PPI is stopped, but those growths do not increase acid.

 

Their info may be reliable on antidepressents, but they are incorrect regarding PPI's. And while the Hypomagnesemia and other nutritional deficiencies were mentioned, the biggest problem is kidney damage and even kidney failure. I was lucky they didn't damage my kidneys. The info posted is old, so the doctor might have been going by the prevailing theory at the time. The Scandinavian studies (Norway, Sweden and Denmark, major universities), were still in their early stages. Hammersmith's research only took place within the past few years. We know much more today than in 2012.

 

Neverteless, it's good to see them point out another drug that causes physical dependency that the medical establishment falsely labelled as safe. Here in the US, the FDA added black box warnings to PPI's. Sadly, they are still sold OTC, and they either shouldn't be, or treatred like pseudoephedrine and moved behind the pharmacy counter because people are ignoring the warnings and taking them too long.

 

I never had GERD/Acid Reflux. A drug rep convinced my then PCP in Maryland that they would protect me from NSAID ulcers. I would have preferred taking my chance with an ulcer. Then my former original PCP here in Delaware never did anything about stopping them, when I no longer took NSAID's. One of many reasons she's no longer my doctor.  I tried on my own to stop by substituting ranitidine, only to have Rebound Acid Hypersecretion (RAHS). She sent me to idiot GI doc who runs all tests, says there's no reason for me to be on PPI's, decides to switch me to ranitidine and mirtazepine for my stomach pain for the RAHS. Took only 2 of the mirtz, had horrible restlesss legs second night, fired him as my doctor, fired my PCP too. Found a great GI doc who helped me get Netazepide.

 

I haven't had any GERD symptoms until I tried getting of Klonopin, and the Valium. Right now Famotidine (H2 Blocker), DAO supplement and Sesamin have stopped the GERD typre symptoms, as long as I'm careful with my diet as well.

Well, it's good they're devoted to dedrugging people and are developing tapering protocols for all kinds of drugs. You could go there and mention Netazepide to them if you want. You have a first hand experience, and it's nice to have a silver bullet for withdrawal from at least one type of drugs.

 

Well, it's good they're devoted to dedrugging people and are developing tapering protocols for all kinds of drugs. You could go there and mention Netazepide to them if you want. You have a first hand experience, and it's nice to have a silver bullet for withdrawal from at least one type of drugs.

 

 

I could mention it, but getting it is a long process because it has not completed 3rd stage studies, and FDA rules restrict access. Because it is an Orphan Drug in the US and EU, I met a subset of the Orphan Drug law. THe studies were supposed to have already begun, but I'm sure COVID has delayed that. The hope was the drug would be available by prescription by the end of this year in the US and EU. It will help so many people stuck on PPI's.