Should I taper Valium or Seroquel first? Need advice

Hi buddies,

 

I am currently on 7mg Valium and 100 mg Seroquel. I initially crossed over to Valium from temazepam after months of terrible interdose withdrawals. I have been successfully tapering from 15 mg of Valium but have hit a wall at 7mg and have been holding for almost a month. I am wondering if I should try to taper the Seroquel while holding on the Valium. I'm wondering if the Seroquel is making my symptoms worse.

 

I initially went on Seroquel for sleep but it stopped working for sleep. At the beginning of my taper (during the crossover when the symptoms were unbearable) I increased the S to help with severe depression and mood swings and it did help at the time. But now I not only struggle with sleep but I wake up feeling awful, with the weird sensation in my head.

 

Just wondering if anybody has advice on whether it's better to taper a benzo or antispychotic first when on both. I know I'll probably get a variety of opinions and experienced but that's okay I appreciate them all.

 

Thanks

 

Grace

Well, SurvivingAntidepressants.org recommends for polydrugged people to taper off antiphyschotics first (because they're the most toxic), antidepressants and psychostimulants next (because they're activating, and you don't want to be on any activating drugs when you taper off benzos), and benzos last (because they reliably cover withdrawal symptoms from everything else).

Benzos first, is what I have heard.  Because the other meds cover the benzo withdrawal.  Already getting opposite responses. 

No idea what is best, but I am choosing to taper the benzo first, then deal with the Trazodone.

Trazodone is currently getting me a full night sleep, although I too feel groggy in the morning.

 

My two cents

 

 

Benzos first, is what I have heard.  Because the other meds cover the benzo withdrawal.  Already getting opposite responses.

Antipsychotics are chemical straightjacket for schizophrenics, not a sleep-aid. They literally shrink the brain.

Benzos first, is what I have heard.  Because the other meds cover the benzo withdrawal.  Already getting opposite responses.

Antipsychotics are chemical straightjacket for schizophrenics, not a sleep-aid. They literally shrink the brain.

 

I’m not sure that the newer class of atypical antipsychotics fall into that category.  The side effects are much more friendly than the old ones like Haldol which were essentially only used for schizophrenia and psychosis.  Abilify and Rexulti are helpful to many high-functioning people for depression. 

Hi buddies,

 

I am currently on 7mg Valium and 100 mg Seroquel. I initially crossed over to Valium from temazepam after months of terrible interdose withdrawals. I have been successfully tapering from 15 mg of Valium but have hit a wall at 7mg and have been holding for almost a month. I am wondering if I should try to taper the Seroquel while holding on the Valium. I'm wondering if the Seroquel is making my symptoms worse.

 

I initially went on Seroquel for sleep but it stopped working for sleep. At the beginning of my taper (during the crossover when the symptoms were unbearable) I increased the S to help with severe depression and mood swings and it did help at the time. But now I not only struggle with sleep but I wake up feeling awful, with the weird sensation in my head.

 

Just wondering if anybody has advice on whether it's better to taper a benzo or antispychotic first when on both. I know I'll probably get a variety of opinions and experienced but that's okay I appreciate them all.

 

Thanks

 

Grace

 

Being on Seroquel should help with the benzo withdrawal.  On the other hand, benzos will make getting off Seroquel a lot easier. 

 

I’ll share my experience with you.  This is my second time trying to get off benzos in the past 18 months.  After the first time, I was thrown on antidepressants and anything that might help with withdrawal symptoms including Viibryd for depression and Depakote which is an anticonvulsant.  They helped in some ways but also created other problems.  I also took mirtazapine as a mainstay throughout that period as well which helped the most with withdrawal symptoms like insomnia, panic attacks, and anxiety.  It actually shares some chemical similarities with Seroquel, notably its action on histamine which creates sleepiness and calming effects.  But with that came some severe grogginess and to be honest, it killed my motivation and determination.  I wasn’t taking care of myself and felt almost catatonic at times.  I tried to taper off of it twice and almost had my mom take me to the psychiatric hospital but reinstated and found a little relief.  I was eventually put back on Klonopin, at a lower dose this time, and successfully got off the mirtazapine but it was still pretty hellacious. 

 

I’ve seen a number of people here who were started on antidepressants when they got off benzos say that they didn’t see much in the terms of healing while they were on them, and that they seemed to heal a lot faster once they got off them.  I think there may be some scientific truth to that as other medications are masking some of the problems and your brain is a little more confused how to fight the withdrawal.  There is a lot of talk on here on how benzo withdrawal is primarily a GABA problem, which may be mostly true, but benzo withdrawal throws a lot of brain processes out of whack. 

 

So, I’m going this round without medications.  Down to 2.5mg of Valium.  It still really, really sucks but I feel like my brain isn’t hijacked like it was the first time I got off when I was on meds.  I’m exercising and taking better care of myself.  I also know what to expect this time which is a huge asset, but the dulling effects of medication were amplified when I got off benzos.  A lot of people become hypersensitive to medications during withdrawal and dulling was my personal sensitivity, and it created a huge loss in my determination to fight this.

I’m not sure that the newer class of atypical antipsychotics fall into that category.  The side effects are much more friendly than the old ones like Haldol which were essentially only used for schizophrenia and psychosis.  Abilify and Rexulti are helpful to many high-functioning people for depression.

The only difference between typicals and atypicals is the ratio of 5-HT_2A to D₂ antagonism. Aripiprazole and brexpiprazole are third generation antipsychotics (they are partial agonists at many receptors, instead of being antagonists).

Modern anti-psychotic medications are still a very blunt instrument and dirty as hell. All psych meds are dirty but anti-psychotics really take the cake. I feel sorry for anybody who gets into them.

 

I'd taper the anti-psychotic as a matter of priority, all other factors being equal. That said, if I was already tapering the benzo, I am not sure I would change course. I suppose if you have taken a break from tapering and you feel relatively stable, then it would be alright to swap which drug you're tapering. I don't have anything to back it up but my suspicion is that if you're on multiple meds and you want off, it's usually best to tackle them one at a time.

Thank you everybody. It sounds there no solid "right answer" here (except don't taper two drugs at once). djej2010 that is really interesting what you said about motivation. I wonder if the Seroquel affects my motivation. And as I get further into the taper, I do think that I feel the "dulling" effects more. BUT I am afraid to taper the seroquel right now because when I first started my taper I was also on risperidol and I got off of that really quick and went through SEVERE withdrawal. Was so severely depressed among other symptoms. I'm afraid of the severe mood changes and/or depression I might feel if I try to get off the seroquel right now. Also worried it might worsen my insomnia. Like one of you said, it just might not be a good idea to change the drug I am tapering in the middle of my taper.

 

I might have tapered the Seroquel first before I started my taper but I was going through severe interdose withdrawal from the temazepam so I really had to taper the benzo first for that reason. Although I suppose that after I made the switch the diazepam I could have then possibly held at 15mg V and worked on tapering the antipsychotic. I don't know if that would have been a good idea either because I was on such a high dose of the diazepam (15mg) that it was REALLY sedating. After I got off the risperidone, I actually asked my psychiatrist to increase my Seroquel from 75mg to 100mg to stabilize mood symptoms and it did help stabilize my mood and decrease severe depression symptoms art the beginning of my taper.

 

SOOOOO... maybe I am just stuck with this antipsychotic until after I get off this benzo. I can't help but wonder if my motivation to take care of myself, exercise, do creative things, etc. would be better if i wasn't on this Seroquel. I don't know. I'm really hesitant to mess with the Seroquel right now. Maybe I could try just decreasing it by 25mg while I'm on this hold, and then continue the benzo taper while on 75mg of Seroquel.

 

My psychiatrist's answer is usually that she just wants me to try more and more medications, so sometimes it's hard for me to have these conversations with her. Although she is very supportive of me and and listens to me when I tell her I don't want any more medications---that I want to get off my medications. But I often get this feeling from her (could be totally wrong) that she really believes that if I would just take the meds she is offering I would be all better. That just hasn't been my experience. And I don't know how to convince her of that. I guess it may not be realistic to think that I can convince somebody who has devoted their whole professional life to helping people through medications that medications aren't always helpful. I mean, I get it. She wants to help. And medications are her way of "helping". But... sigh.

 

Grace

I can't help but wonder if my motivation to take care of myself, exercise, do creative things, etc. would be better if i wasn't on this Seroquel.

It most definitively would. Motivation, creativity, concentration, but also cravings, passions, etc. are all dopaminergic CNS activities and main mechanism of action of antipsychotics is blockage of dopamine receptors.

Thank you everybody. It sounds there no solid "right answer" here (except don't taper two drugs at once). djej2010 that is really interesting what you said about motivation. I wonder if the Seroquel affects my motivation. And as I get further into the taper, I do think that I feel the "dulling" effects more. BUT I am afraid to taper the seroquel right now because when I first started my taper I was also on risperidol and I got off of that really quick and went through SEVERE withdrawal. Was so severely depressed among other symptoms. I'm afraid of the severe mood changes and/or depression I might feel if I try to get off the seroquel right now. Also worried it might worsen my insomnia. Like one of you said, it just might not be a good idea to change the drug I am tapering in the middle of my taper.

 

I might have tapered the Seroquel first before I started my taper but I was going through severe interdose withdrawal from the temazepam so I really had to taper the benzo first for that reason. Although I suppose that after I made the switch the diazepam I could have then possibly held at 15mg V and worked on tapering the antipsychotic. I don't know if that would have been a good idea either because I was on such a high dose of the diazepam (15mg) that it was REALLY sedating. After I got off the risperidone, I actually asked my psychiatrist to increase my Seroquel from 75mg to 100mg to stabilize mood symptoms and it did help stabilize my mood and decrease severe depression symptoms art the beginning of my taper.

 

SOOOOO... maybe I am just stuck with this antipsychotic until after I get off this benzo. I can't help but wonder if my motivation to take care of myself, exercise, do creative things, etc. would be better if i wasn't on this Seroquel. I don't know. I'm really hesitant to mess with the Seroquel right now. Maybe I could try just decreasing it by 25mg while I'm on this hold, and then continue the benzo taper while on 75mg of Seroquel.

 

My psychiatrist's answer is usually that she just wants me to try more and more medications, so sometimes it's hard for me to have these conversations with her. Although she is very supportive of me and and listens to me when I tell her I don't want any more medications---that I want to get off my medications. But I often get this feeling from her (could be totally wrong) that she really believes that if I would just take the meds she is offering I would be all better. That just hasn't been my experience. And I don't know how to convince her of that. I guess it may not be realistic to think that I can convince somebody who has devoted their whole professional life to helping people through medications that medications aren't always helpful. I mean, I get it. She wants to help. And medications are her way of "helping". But... sigh.

 

Grace

 

I am surprised that psych docs have a hard time accepting that medication can actually make people more depressed and more anxious.  I think they generally accept that they can cause unwanted side effects and are ok with that.  But, a decline in mental health as a result of taking medication seems unbelievable to them. 

I would taper the benzo first

djej2010  exactly. Why is that so hard for them to understand? Sigh

Hi buddies,

 

I am currently on 7mg Valium and 100 mg Seroquel. I initially crossed over to Valium from temazepam after months of terrible interdose withdrawals. I have been successfully tapering from 15 mg of Valium but have hit a wall at 7mg and have been holding for almost a month. I am wondering if I should try to taper the Seroquel while holding on the Valium. I'm wondering if the Seroquel is making my symptoms worse.

 

I initially went on Seroquel for sleep but it stopped working for sleep. At the beginning of my taper (during the crossover when the symptoms were unbearable) I increased the S to help with severe depression and mood swings and it did help at the time. But now I not only struggle with sleep but I wake up feeling awful, with the weird sensation in my head.

 

Just wondering if anybody has advice on whether it's better to taper a benzo or antispychotic first when on both. I know I'll probably get a variety of opinions and experienced but that's okay I appreciate them all.

 

Thanks

 

Grace

I don't know but I can help.

Seqoquel is partially soluble in water, I water titrated it with a syringe and lukewarm water, and got off it successfully.

Journey, did you crush the pills first and then dissolve them?