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How kindling affects benzo withdrawl..it's rough


[gi...]

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kindling:

 

The kindling effect is where multiple withdrawals, putting the body into withdrawal and out of withdrawal multiple times can cause a hypersensitisation of the receptor systems and thus causing the nervous system to be hypersensitised which can lead people to not being able to stabalise on their benzos as well as they used to and as well as to feeling toxic on the drugs and as well as finding that each withdrawal is worse than the previous. In simple laymans terms it is often but not always harder the 2nd time around and even harder the 3rd time around at withdrawal, in people who have completely withdrawn and then went back on. This does not seem to be the case for people who have partially tapered down their dosage and then upped dose. It seems only the case for those who have completely withdrawn for more than a couple of weeks and then went back on multiple times.

 

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On a more positive note, I have known someone who has had c/t a couple of times, and taken different benzos, and their taper is going fine, they are on a very low dose now, and are doing activities, they get the occasional hiccup.
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Hi, ginia.

 

I've seen several members refer to the kindling effect over the years but have yet to see anyone cite the source of their information.  It would be really helpful to BenzoBuddies to know what authority puts forth this theory about multiple withdrawals from benzos and the kindling effect.  I haven't been able to find a reference to it in The Ashton Manual so, of course, I wonder.  Could you provide the source of your information, ginia?  Thanks.

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Wish I could site the source Beeper, but I can't.  Someone sent me this in a e mail in response to a question I had about kindling. I did some research on it and basically means a supersensitized system.  My doctor told me that my taper was particulary rough because of the kindling effect.

I tend to believe her now.

Not, to discourage anyone, but this does help to explain why one benzo withdrawl experience can be so much different from a prior one.  It makes sense.

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It's originally a term used in epilepsy research that was co-opted by alcohol detox then moved into other areas including benzo withdrawal.
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[5c...]

It's originally a term used in epilepsy research that was co-opted by alcohol detox then moved into other areas including benzo withdrawal.

 

True!

 

I've read about Kindling.

 

Keryn.

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Wish I could site the source Beeper, but I can't.  Someone sent me this in a e mail in response to a question I had about kindling. 

 

I've read this word for word about a year ago.  I want to think it was by Reg Peart? Not certain.  I can check when I have more time.

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m575/maxmoo/Funny%20Pics/Smileys/hallcandysmile3.gif

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As far as I know, the evidence for 'kindling' in benzodiazepine withdrawal is thin. It is mentioned in this medical journal abstract: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TBG-488GB2R-1&_user=10&_coverDate=05%2F31%2F2003&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=477520727f1d88c9708214b2ea6ee881&searchtype=a

 

and here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12725868.

 

However, you would need to read the full article, and a single article does not a sound theory make!

 

There is a poor quality entry at Wikipedia. I say "poor" because the article seems to concentrate on benzodiazpines, for which there appears to be less supporting evidence than for other substances which are hardly mentioned. This might reflect the bias of the main author of the Wikipedia entry. I suggest that if you are interested, you add a comment to the discussion page to see if the article might be fleshed-out and a more balanced entry developed.

 

As far as I can determine, the late Reg Peart never wrote about Kindling.

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  • 5 months later...

From my experience, this is absolutely real.  I was on klonopin 3 other times in the past 10 years for short periods and had no problem withdrawing with very little effect (in fact I would laugh at people who complained).  This time in Aug 09, the klonopin didn't work for insomnia, was told I needed lexapro which i took for 4 weeks and it made me suicidal and freaked out my brain, ct'd from that and klonopin, put on trazodone/restoril/ativan and tapered off all after a couple months on (took 6 months to taper) and then back on klonopin because my brain freaked out after ativan withdrawal.  How in the world did I let this happen?  When I went back on the klonopin in November, I knew within a week that I had done severe damage and began to taper.  Took 4 months to taper and now off 3 1/2 weeks and I can't begin to describe the brain damage feeling and overwhleming DP, visual disturbances, disorientation, etc. etc. that we all know about.  So I definitely believe in kindling and would guess that it is harder on your brain to go on and off than to be on for a long time.  I am not an expert, just speaking from personal experience.

 

And no, I am not weak, just anxious, a drug addict or any of the other number of things I've been called in the past year and a half.  But I was stupid and ignorant of what I was putting in my body and brain and made the mistake of putting my life in the hands of people who haven't caught up with the recent research about what this stuff does to you.

 

Thanks for listening

and God bless you all with patience, perseverance and supernatural strength!

 

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It's funny because most of the doctors that I have talked to understand and know about the kindling effect in regards to sensitization in other withdrawls but somehow fail to acknowledge benzo withdrawl.  I know without a doubt that kindling was a major factor in my last taper.  But, regardless of kindling or CT or tapering , I have found one thing to be true,  We still heal.

That's pretty darn good news.  Might take a little longer or be a little rougher,  but we do !

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Maranatha,

Would not say that I am completely healed, but pretty darn close with just a few annoying yet familiar symptoms that I try not to pay too much attention to.  These too will also go away as have the multitude of other symptoms.  So, yes Maranatha, this does get better and you will heal.  Sometimes it seems to take forever but I have found that if you just accept it as much as you can and realize what it is that somehow that makes it a bit easier to deal with.  I've found that benzo withdrawl takes as long as it wants but there definately does seem to be some factors that may aggrevate it such as how much benzo, duration, other meds. kindling etc.  I really thought I was was screwed due to the high dosage and length of time and then add the kindling.  But, although it was awful, I made it and so will you !   

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The Wikipedia article to which I linked in my previous post has been overhauled. There is now a proper section on alcohol. The article seems to be more balanced now (there is much greater emphasis upon alcohol, where there exists a great deal more data and research).
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  • 1 month later...

It has been rougher for me. I was on klonopin for eight years and tapered pretty symptom free. Things didn't start going poorly until a couple months later. My dr. told me I needed

it and said to get thru the rough patch. That rough patch is still going. I wish it hadn't been as easy or I would never be in this position. I was lucky to stabilize and start a new taper.

Just had no idea of the power of these pills. Thank you for that hope Ginia and others. I've been pretty freaked about kindling. Glad I found this post...I'm really struggling but I have hope.

 

 

 

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[74...]

Jeff,

you are off???  are you talking about reinstating and waiting a year or two and then taper again.  I'm confused.

 

Mamie

 

 

Yikes!! Kindling? I better do a super slow taper after my 90 day C/T. My brain hurts. It may never let me taper again. This is of great concern. Maybe I should wait a year or two before I try and taper again. Maybe my brain will be unkindeld by then. Can that happen?

 

Jeff

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Ginia,

 

I agree with you.  I started taking Xanax when I was 18.  I went through what I now realize was withdrawal but it lasted only a few months.  About 15 years later I had another brief stint with benzos for only a week or two.  No problem stopping them.  This last time around, WOW, is all I can say.

 

After 14 months benzo free I am about 95% healed but man was that recovery the roughest thing I have ever had to endure.

 

It's hard to say how much kindling is to blame but I think going on and off psychotropic meds probably isn't good for the brain.  ::)

 

*Psychotropic med free forever!*

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I think I will be the poster child for this argument.  If and when I survive this hell, I will AT LEAST spend all of my energy to get this crap relabeled so that people are not taken on and off...I'm certain I've done long term damage...on and off 6 times in 10 years.  Holy crap...why in the world did anyone let me do that?  Sounded so innocent...have a period of insomnia so take klonopin until it levels out and then withdraw.  Worked the first 4 times and then all hell broke loose...
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Oh, snap.

 

Thought that this long-arse Klon taper was going okay, under the circumstances (women's shelter, lights and noisy ppl). And I feel shaky and photosensitive, but overall not that bad.

 

This is my third rodeo with this sh*t; two previous c/ts have me pretty scared about how this might play out (realise that there is a psychological component to kindling, and that my fear may be affecting neurotrans activity somehow).

 

I must not return to benzos, ever. They, and the clueless doctors who have dealt them to be, have really futzed me up. This board has been so helpful, I don't see how/why it has not affected in some way how prescribers deal with benzo-related problems.

 

There's some stuff a person must gut out, muscle through. Hope my circumstances improve to a point at which this won't be so rough. In a lot of fear, though.

 

Thanks,

 

juliad

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Juliad...sounds like you're doing quite well to me.  My 2 months, 1 week and 5 days off has been horrid, but the same symptoms that I had when on the poison and tapering off...90% psychological at this point along with major exhaustion and some physical stuff.  So again, it sounds like you are doing the right thing and that it will be ok for you...just my opinion!

 

Love,

Mary

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This kindling idea flies in the face of reinstating doesn't it?  It almost suggests that if you begin the process of withdrawal then return to medicating before it is complete that you will guarantee the next withdrawal will be worse.  This seems like hogwash, many people reinstate and go on to successfully taper.
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