Short term use. Taper help needed.

Hi,

 

I have been off Clonazepam for nearly 7 years after a horrible, lengthy protracted withdrawal. Not a single dose until recently.

 

I am very familiar with long term usage, not short term.

 

I have taken Clonazepam daily for the past 2 months.

 

Schedule as follows:

 

1week@ .5MG

6 weeks@ .25MG

1 week@ .125MG (quarter of initial dose)

 

No issues while taking it.. I felt a bit of insomnia at .125mg, that's it.

 

I decided to jump yesterday but I woke up today with similar wirhdrawal symptoms to 7 years ago. Obviously I did it too fast.

 

How slow should my taper be after 2 months? 

 

I have a good scale to taper.

 

Suggestions are appreciated. I really appreciate the help.

 

 

 

Fonz

Are you planning to or have you gone back on the .125, is that going to be your starting dose?  It sounds like your taper was fairly uneventful, I wonder if you might give your body a couple more days to see if you can turn the corner without going back on and tapering further?

I was quite sick so I took the .125mg dose.

 

.125mg is where I am down to.

 

I could "ride it out" but my symptoms were quite harsh.

They included:

Blurry vission, dizziness, shakiness, vibrating feeling in head, headache, slightly flu like, Cloudy mind, anxiety,  etc.

 

It was much stronger than I expected.

 

I guess it put me on edge because it felt like that at first at the beggining of my Protracted withdrawal, which was horrific.

 

This was suppose to be a trial to determine the cause of my chronic migraines. The Benzo's worked so anxiety may be a major factor as being a trigger. The plan was to get off the Benzo right away but I felt so good I kept taking it.

 

Is it worth tapering? I know it's only been two months.

 

 

Fonz

Its so sad to hear that it helps your anxiety and migraines but the relief comes at such a cost. 

 

I'm really torn, your short time taking the drug and adequate taper would typically mean you could be done with it, but for some, the body seems to remember the previous use so it's not a simple. 

 

Tapering off of the rest might be your best move just to be on the safe side.  You mentioned you plan to use a scale, was this how you tapered 7 years ago?

You're right, it is sad. I will just have to explore more alternatives.

 

The first part of my previous taper was with the scale. I ended up having to switch to a micro taper using liquid titration.

 

I am hoping I can do this with just the scale.

 

I know it can be individual but what type of timeline is appropriate for my cuts?  10% every .... ?

 

 

Fonz

Since you felt so many unpleasant symptoms I'd take it even slower than 10%, why not start at 5% and see how you feel for a week, start slow and increase if you feel good.  It's easier to forge ahead when symptoms are light than to pull back if they're uncomfortable.

Thank you for the responses Pamster.

 

I take my dose when I wake up.

 

This is new, I am now noticing when I wake up I feel withdrawal symptoms. I assume this is interdose withdrawal from my single dose schedule. I will try cutting it in half and dosing twice per day.

 

I can do 5%. If this interdose withdrawal does not resolve by splitting the dose should I updose a bit? 

 

I will allow myself to stabilize before cutting.

 

 

Fonz

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its good you're experienced enough to recognize interdose but yes, if you're uncomfortable its a good idea to split up your dose.  I hate to see you go up in dose but resuming your taper from a position of stability is a good plan.  Hopefully holding and dosing twice a day will remedy this.

I'm starting to think the timeline I posted is off.

 

I went down from .25mg to .125mg for three days then jumped.

 

Even after taking my full .125mg dose the symptoms have lingered all day and evening.

 

Maybe cutting from .25mg to .125mg was too fast, plus jumping ontop of that.

 

If I had a crystal ball I wouldn't mind riding it out, I just fear this method as that is exactly what I did last time.

 

 

Fonz

It does look like your taper was too fast towards the end, are you thinking about going back up in dose?  Ya know, you've already found out you're going to suffer if you taper and jump too fast, I wonder if it might be your best option.  Apparently your body has already decided it's going to punish you for taking benzo's again, I'm so sorry.

If I knew exactly how long the withdrawal would last I would suffer it out and have minimal anxiety about it. At this stage I fear a prolonged withdrawal which makes me want to updose.

 

A mistake I made last time was I never gave myself chance to stabalize. I was microcutting but not really holding much, just forward march regardless to how I felt.

 

I can either suffer it out and hopefully stabalize at .125mg or go back to .25mg and start a slower cut schedule.

 

I'm not in total agony or anything, just sick enough to be layed up.. Kind of like a strong flu mixed with panic and vibrating brain.

 

I could always do a smaller updose, like to halfway between .25mg and .125mg which I believe is .1875mg.  Maybe I am making it too complicated haha.

 

 

 

Fonz

 

 

 

 

 

I actually thought about seeing if you'd want to go up to .1875, so you're not the only one trying to find a way. 

 

I want to tell you about a couple of members I've worked with, each were on the drug for short term, like you.  They actually quit cold turkey and I and others worked with them daily talking them down from the ledge when they wanted to reinstate, thankfully they didn't.  They finally turned the corner within weeks, not months and were grateful they didn't reinstate. 

 

I have no idea what would happen to you, your previous experience complicates things but I have to wonder if you could see the same results they did, I wish I knew.

I can't remember but what would cause symptoms to actually get worse after a dose?  30min to an hour after taking the dose.

 

You're right, my history complicates things. It also adds to the anxiety but will do my best not to jump to conclusions.

 

 

I've seen so many posts from members describing what you are, a paradoxical reaction to the drug, Professor Ashton describes it but doesn't say why it happens.  Does it happen with every dose?

 

Paradoxical stimulant effects. Benzodiazepines occasionally cause paradoxical excitement with increased anxiety, insomnia, nightmares, hallucinations at the onset of sleep, irritability, hyperactive or aggressive behaviour, and exacerbation of seizures in epileptics.

 

The Ashton Manual

I actually thought about seeing if you'd want to go up to .1875, so you're not the only one trying to find a way. 

 

I want to tell you about a couple of members I've worked with, each were on the drug for short term, like you.  They actually quit cold turkey and I and others worked with them daily talking them down from the ledge when they wanted to reinstate, thankfully they didn't.  They finally turned the corner within weeks, not months and were grateful they didn't reinstate. 

 

I have no idea what would happen to you, your previous experience complicates things but I have to wonder if you could see the same results they did, I wish I knew.

 

 

Hi pamster! Hope it’s okay to reply to you here. I’m a short term user that is about to jump, and am having pretty bad sx.  I really don’t want to reinstate .... any suggestions ?

I actually thought about seeing if you'd want to go up to .1875, so you're not the only one trying to find a way. 

 

I want to tell you about a couple of members I've worked with, each were on the drug for short term, like you.  They actually quit cold turkey and I and others worked with them daily talking them down from the ledge when they wanted to reinstate, thankfully they didn't.  They finally turned the corner within weeks, not months and were grateful they didn't reinstate. 

 

I have no idea what would happen to you, your previous experience complicates things but I have to wonder if you could see the same results they did, I wish I knew.

 

 

Hi pamster! Hope it’s okay to reply to you here. I’m a short term user that is about to jump, and am having pretty bad sx.  I really don’t want to reinstate .... any suggestions ?

 

Hi Lexlu,

 

I was just reading your introductory post for some context, it would help us help you if you included in your signature what you included in your first post about your medication history.  Here are the instructions. Add your history/signature 

 

You may be a short time user but all of the medications you were put on and the cold turkeys you did make your situation more complicated than a typical short time user.

 

How long have you been holding this dose and how do you feel, has there been any lessening of symptoms as you've progressed and did you ever feel stable before you reduced your dose?

This makes me extremely anxious. I’m not sure what to do. I felt okay for September. I started a liquid titration .. .125 down. End of September it got roughy and still now into October.

This makes me extremely anxious. I’m not sure what to do. I felt okay for September. I started a liquid titration .. .125 down. End of September it got roughy and still now into October.

 

What is your current dose?

.03 klonopin I can’t even conjure up a timeline .. is there anyway I can have conversation through a phone call

.03 klonopin I can’t even conjure up a timeline .. is there anyway I can have conversation through a phone call

 

I'm sorry, no we need to remain anonymous, we do our best to protect member privacy. 

 

You're on a very low dose but I can see you have a lot of anxiety, this is typical for this process.  If you feel you need to reduce down to zero for peace of mind then you can do this but at some point it will be time to step off the drug and face what comes next and that is recovery.  You'll no longer be in withdrawal, you'll be in recovery mode and how long this takes no one knows.  Your chances are very good that you won't suffer for many months or years, you may be looking at weeks, that's something to hope for.

 

Just continue to educate yourself about this process, the more you know, the less you'll fear. 

 

Four Phases of Withdrawal-Where Are You?

 

What is happening in your brain

.03 klonopin I can’t even conjure up a timeline .. is there anyway I can have conversation through a phone call

 

I'm sorry, no we need to remain anonymous, we do our best to protect member privacy. 

 

You're on a very low dose but I can see you have a lot of anxiety, this is typical for this process.  If you feel you need to reduce down to zero for peace of mind then you can do this but at some point it will be time to step off the drug and face what comes next and that is recovery.  You'll no longer be in withdrawal, you'll be in recovery mode and how long this takes no one knows.  Your chances are very good that you won't suffer for many months or years, you may be looking at weeks, that's something to hope for.

 

Just continue to educate yourself about this process, the more you know, the less you'll fear. 

 

Four Phases of Withdrawal-Where Are You?

 

What is happening in your brain

 

Thank you pamster ..  when I get a moment I’ll do my history. Praying this goes away rather quickly.. I have a little family that needs me.

So I guess for reassurance, I’ll be okay ?

.03 klonopin I can’t even conjure up a timeline .. is there anyway I can have conversation through a phone call

 

I'm sorry, no we need to remain anonymous, we do our best to protect member privacy. 

 

You're on a very low dose but I can see you have a lot of anxiety, this is typical for this process.  If you feel you need to reduce down to zero for peace of mind then you can do this but at some point it will be time to step off the drug and face what comes next and that is recovery.  You'll no longer be in withdrawal, you'll be in recovery mode and how long this takes no one knows.  Your chances are very good that you won't suffer for many months or years, you may be looking at weeks, that's something to hope for.

 

Just continue to educate yourself about this process, the more you know, the less you'll fear. 

 

Four Phases of Withdrawal-Where Are You?

 

What is happening in your brain

 

Thank you pamster ..  when I get a moment I’ll do my history. Praying this goes away rather quickly.. I have a little family that needs me.

So I guess for reassurance, I’ll be okay ?

 

You're going to be just fine, this is a difficult process that lasts too long but when you recover you're going to be so grateful to be able to enjoy the simple things again, you won't take anything for granted.  Have you been reading the success stories, they really helped me get through this. 

I've seen so many posts from members describing what you are, a paradoxical reaction to the drug, Professor Ashton describes it but doesn't say why it happens.  Does it happen with every dose?

 

Paradoxical stimulant effects. Benzodiazepines occasionally cause paradoxical excitement with increased anxiety, insomnia, nightmares, hallucinations at the onset of sleep, irritability, hyperactive or aggressive behaviour, and exacerbation of seizures in epileptics.

 

The Ashton Manual

 

I knew I remembered something about that. Gladly it didn't do it to me today.

 

Last night I got worse and had an episode of delirium. I will assume my previous cut was hitting full force.

 

Today was not as bad as yesterday, not at all. I cut my .125 dose in half and stuck to that.

 

Fingers crossed I rode it out and don't need to updose. I'd like to think that feeling much better today is a good sign.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

 

Fonz

Feeling good is always a good sign, hopefully you won't have to go up in dose, I'd hold here for little while before tapering again just to make sure. 

.03 klonopin I can’t even conjure up a timeline .. is there anyway I can have conversation through a phone call

 

I'm sorry, no we need to remain anonymous, we do our best to protect member privacy. 

 

You're on a very low dose but I can see you have a lot of anxiety, this is typical for this process.  If you feel you need to reduce down to zero for peace of mind then you can do this but at some point it will be time to step off the drug and face what comes next and that is recovery.  You'll no longer be in withdrawal, you'll be in recovery mode and how long this takes no one knows.  Your chances are very good that you won't suffer for many months or years, you may be looking at weeks, that's something to hope for.

 

Just continue to educate yourself about this process, the more you know, the less you'll fear. 

 

Four Phases of Withdrawal-Where Are You?

 

What is happening in your brain

 

Hi pamster I just posted my history. I would like some feed back. I’m quite nervous on what my road looks ahead of me ...