Jordan Peterson, take 2, let's stay on point, please

Dear All,

 

The previous thread on Jordan Peterson's treatment went south to completely unrelated tangents.  To recap:

 

Jordan Peterson, a man of substantial wealth, found himself F-ed up like us, but unlike us, he has substantial wealth, so his family literally scoured the globe, incredulous that so serious a condition did not have a known treatment.

 

Here is Jordan's interview:

 

From pretty good inference, we determined he received some combination of flumazenil, ibogaine, and in my opinion most relevantly, xenon, from a clinic in Serbia.  There are people looking into various ways they might try all three.

 

I am going to ask, politely, that we limit the discussion in this thread to those three items.

 

I personally think of the three, xenon holds the best potential.  That is only an educated guess.  I like these two articles on xenon, although I am feeling both sick and "wavy" so I do not have the mental capacity I did 6 months ago to really understand them well.  I have attempted to contact the authors with general questions, and will come back either when I get a response or when I truly understand what is going on in the papers:

 

The paper that explains the "how" of xenon:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20048760/

 

The clinical study:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5470223/

 

Buddies, let's stay on point.  Yes free speech, and while sometimes tangents can help, let's not do that here.  Please.

 

Ramcon1

Here's benzo protocol from Vorobiev clinic:

Medically induced sleep will put you in a state of rest, allowing for quick and painless detoxication. All symptoms of physical crisis will be completely gone, or reduced by 80% after the first therapy session. While you sleep, your body will receive vitamins, amino acids, minerals and other vital ingredients through blood infusion. This will allow you to wake up pain free, with the worst part already behind you.

[...]

In order to avoid possible withdrawal symptoms, such as involuntary muscle contractions, this therapy includes the anti-seizure medication. Naturally, this treatment includes also vitamins, GABA antagonists and neurometabolic medications. They will all accelerate the recovery of the central nervous system.

As you move forward with your recovery, you will notice vast improvements in the quality of your sleep. Your appetite will return as well as the strength increase.

 

From:

http://heroindetoxeurope.com/benzodiazepines-addiction-program/

 

This would imply getting someone under full anesthesia e.g. xenon or ketamine, and them pumping them with IV cocktail which appears to include flumazenil. Experience Lexofree has got with flumazenil implies that while flumazenil is in blood benzos are rapidly eliminated and the half-life of benzo in question doesn't matter, see here:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=6164.msg57608#msg57608

 

Research on rodents would imply that this is indeed the way to go and that NDMA antagonists are useful only during rapid detox process itself.

 

So far so good. Makes sense as a ultrarapid detox protocol. But JP was detoxed in Russia. When he got to Serbia he was already benzo-free, which is something more relevant for us who're suffering from setbacks and don't want to reinstate. So, question is what did they specifically do for him? He wanted to share that, but unfortunately he had a setback of his own with fluoroquinolones.

Pacenik,

 

Great post.  I have always said that the best way to do this would be in a medically induced coma, and my very best doctor just laughed at me.  Hopefully whatever they do will become the standard of care in other countries.

 

Good luck,

 

Ramcon1

Personally I dont think it could have been flumazenil that fixed his paws. I tried it and it did nothing for me. I had been off benzos for ages when I tried for a couple of days at a clinic. I have spoken with a few others that had the same result.

 

Also how do we know jordan had another setback?

Happy with the new thread. 

 

I just rewatched the mikhaila Peterson interview with her father as I hadn’t seen it since it was first released.  I know most of you know this, but to recap: 

 

As was mentioned his rapid detox was done in Russia with a propofol induced coma where they also used plasmapheresis to make sure the long acting benzos were completely out of his system. He barely survived this process but that was partly due to the fact he went into it with a case of pneumonia.  When he woke up, although in horrible shape he was lucky in that the Akathisia was greatly reduced.  Otherwise though it sounds like he left and returned to Florida still in horrific withdrawal.  So it seems like it was essentially just a ct withdrawal with the “benefit” of being asleep for the first 9 days or so.  They clearly didn’t do anything to help with the resulting withdrawals and subsequent paws which he experienced while trying to recover in Florida. 

 

They then spent 6 months searching the globe for a doctor or clinic who could reverse or treat the actual neurological damage benzos did.  Basically what this forum is often trying to do.  That led them to the anesthesiologist in Belgrade. 

 

What I found  most interesting is Jordan said the dr in Belgrade “modified the medication” he was taking in Florida and that is what somehow made virtually all of his symptoms disappear.  He also described the drastic change like a “switch being turned on.”  Could that be xenon?  I guess.  Although I don’t know if I’d describe xenon inhalation treatment as modifying the medication I’m on.  I also can’t imagine an intense treatment like ibogaine being described that way either.    It sounds more like they switched him to some “magic” medication that somehow reversed his paws.

 

Of course at the end they promised to discuss what the treatment was after they were sure it was a long term fix and not some short term band-aid.  Here we are 3 months later with no update. 

 

I do know Jordan got hit with covid and the treatments for that set him back in someway.  But in the end no updates on his Current condition Or the treatment he received that seemed to “fix” his brain. 

 

 

As I also mentioned I spoke with someone close to Jordan Peterson as I am unfortunately dealing with Akathisia myself.  This was his reply. Although I have no idea if any of these meds are what he got in Belgrade or if this is more related to the Akathisia specifically. 

 

“Hey! I'm really sorry to hear that... obviously, I can't give medical advice, but the "corrector" class of medication seemed to have helped with akathesia... that's stuff like PK Mertz (Amantatine) and Akineton (Biperiden). Other than that, Gravol (Dramamine) seemed to have been effective, along with seroquel (that was a good one).

 

Be really careful with this though - akathesia is one step away from suicide, if it goes badly. The clinic he is at (which I can't disclose) recommended this place for a detox program - they're apparently affordable, and have a lot of experience dealing with various tapers. Disregard the name. This is their contact:

 

desintoxclinique@drvorobjev.rs

https://heroindetoxeurope.com/

 

I wish you good luck, resilience, and a full recovery.”

 

 

That’s all I know about this medical mystery.  I hope Jordan is doing well and eventually we’ll get more information on the treatment he received

 

 

Personally I dont think it could have been flumazenil that fixed his paws. I tried it and it did nothing for me. I had been off benzos for ages when I tried for a couple of days at a clinic. I have spoken with a few others that had the same result.

 

Also how do we know jordan had another setback?

Well, I tried 3 hour infusion of 0.5 mg flumazenil and it worked for me. For a day. It's too expensive to do every day. If they made flumazenil XR tablets that would be something. Lader study indicates that repeated infusions every 4 days to 5 weeks brings some more lasting results.

 

And the worst possible setback it is.

http://nationalpost.com/news/things-are-not-good-right-now-jordan-peterson-battling-covid-19-u-k-paper-reports

Oh ok wow that is interesting then Pac. Wonder why it did absolutely nothing for me. Obviously different strokes for different folks but if JP had a miraculous turn around from psychotic to basically normal it makes me think it would likely be something else. Plus flumaz is used all around the world and more people know about it.

You were on pregabalin, I made sure I didn't even take an aspirin a month before trying flumazenil. My conclusion from the experience is that it is for someone who tapered very, very slowly and then jumped. For someone in setback/cold-turkey I would avoid flumazenil. Well at least 3h infusion. I've got no idea how it would go with a long-term subcutaneous pump.

Yeah I was. Id been off benzos for 18 months though after a slow taper. Was not in a setback or anything. Did you say you take something as well atm though? Or no? Completely clean?

 

I dunno. Even wolfie who has taken higher dosages of flumaz the past few months has replied with statements like 'i think it is working for me after 10 months....ill do another round and reply back.' Doesn't seem overly convincing to me. JP seemed a lot more sure something was fixing him.

Hey buddies,

 

I am still just watching.  My cold is peaking.  The world is just noise.  Ugh.

 

I didn't think flumazenil could evoke lasting change, but you never know.  I am really following this to see if pace or anyone gets xenon.  That looks really promising, and if I were a betting man, I would bet that is what helped Jordan Peterson.  We won't really know until he says anything, and even then, it may be that xenon was an anesthesia that cured him "by accident."

 

Again following, mostly to see where xenon goes.

 

ramcon1

Completely clean. What's interesting to me that before this setback I was symptom free save for GERD and 3AM cortisol surges. Obvously I couldn't have downregulated GABAA receptors in two days, therefore while flumazenil infusion has proven that I've got downregulated GABAA receptors from chronic benzo use, setbacks are obviously glutamatergic in nature.

Okay so I spoke with a clinic in Sydney as Im an Aussie. They do the xenon treatment and its $550 per day. The guy I spoke to said it worked really well for lots of various things. I asked specifically about benzos and he said they have a pretty good success rate. I explained that some people have Basically had their life disabled for years after and theres a difference with people who just feel a bit weird or off whille tapering. He still said hes seen some good success in as little as 3 treatments.

 

I would love to be able to chat with people who did the treatment but obviously privacy stops that. Interesting.

Does anyone have any idea what drug Mikheala is referring to when she says "dextor".

 

Its been bugging me for months. I have a medical background and Ive never heard of that drug.

 

Context: When referring to what Jordan took in the RUssian ICU, she said propofol and "DEXTOR".

 

The only thing i can think of is dextroamphetamine buts that cant be it, thats a long acting ADHD drug like ritalin or addrall.

 

Timestamped link to youtube video where she says it :

 

Pinky

 

Does anyone have any idea what drug Mikheala is referring to when she says "dextor".

 

Its been bugging me for months. I have a medical background and Ive never heard of that drug.

 

Context: When referring to what Jordan took in the RUssian ICU, she said propofol and "DEXTOR".

 

The only thing i can think of is dextroamphetamine buts that cant be it, thats a long acting ADHD drug like ritalin or addrall.

 

Timestamped link to youtube video where she says it :

 

Pinky

 

Tried to figure this out myself.  Couldn’t do it.  In the end I don’t think it matters too much as that whole process was the rapid detox which left him in a world of hurt.  It was the treatment in Serbia that supposedly “fixed” his brain.  But I was curious myself. 

Okay so I spoke with a clinic in Sydney as Im an Aussie. They do the xenon treatment and its $550 per day. The guy I spoke to said it worked really well for lots of various things. I asked specifically about benzos and he said they have a pretty good success rate. I explained that some people have Basically had their life disabled for years after and theres a difference with people who just feel a bit weird or off whille tapering. He still said hes seen some good success in as little as 3 treatments.

 

I would love to be able to chat with people who did the treatment but obviously privacy stops that. Interesting.

 

Interesting he said he has had experience with benzo damaged people. I hope he isn't just giving it the big sell.

 

The clinic in Prague have contacted me to say they have their fresh stock of xenon now. I was going to wait a while, but tried to return to work this week and it was just too much and have phoned in sick again today.

 

I'm still a little nervous about it, and have a appointment with a new psychiatrist Tuesday. Will look at doing it the week after. Just wish I knew it wouldn't make things worse

Hi there.

So we don't know how Jordan Peterson is now?

Nobody is in touch with him at all?

But supposedly the Dr. in Prague made him all ok?

I am in a terrible withdrawal, no idea what to do, but reading this because of being nonfunctional.

 

Think seizures and psychosis are about the only symptoms have not had.

Thank you.

Thought this might be of interest to the buddies Stateside. Apparently running clinical trials on a handheld xenon inhaler

 

https://www.nobilistx.com/

Hi there.

So we don't know how Jordan Peterson is now?

Nobody is in touch with him at all?

But supposedly the Dr. in Prague made him all ok?

I am in a terrible withdrawal, no idea what to do, but reading this because of being nonfunctional.

 

Think seizures and psychosis are about the only symptoms have not had.

Thank you.

 

Peterson went to Serbia for his treatment, but as yet hasn't confirmed what treatment he received or whether it helped him in the long run

Dear All,

 

The previous thread on Jordan Peterson's treatment went south to completely unrelated tangents.  To recap:

 

Jordan Peterson, a man of substantial wealth, found himself F-ed up like us, but unlike us, he has substantial wealth, so his family literally scoured the globe, incredulous that so serious a condition did not have a known treatment.

 

Here is Jordan's interview:

 

From pretty good inference, we determined he received some combination of flumazenil, ibogaine, and in my opinion most relevantly, xenon, from a clinic in Serbia.  There are people looking into various ways they might try all three.

 

I am going to ask, politely, that we limit the discussion in this thread to those three items.

 

I personally think of the three, xenon holds the best potential.  That is only an educated guess.  I like these two articles on xenon, although I am feeling both sick and "wavy" so I do not have the mental capacity I did 6 months ago to really understand them well.  I have attempted to contact the authors with general questions, and will come back either when I get a response or when I truly understand what is going on in the papers:

 

The paper that explains the "how" of xenon:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20048760/

 

The clinical study:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5470223/

 

Buddies, let's stay on point.  Yes free speech, and while sometimes tangents can help, let's not do that here.  Please.

 

Ramcon1

 

The point is its not necessarily a tangent. You said its three options. Thats incorrect, we don't know what formula to use and what meds they are giving him. It is very likely he is also taking some antipsychotic, antidepressant, or anticonvulsant. If you rewatch the interview, he said he was on a "meds" regime, and they tinkered with it in serbia and made it better. That means he's popping pills if he's on a regime, and its one of those three classes, or something more esoteric.

 

Secondly, there is a large % of people (actually from my understanding 60%+) who heal within 6 months. You don't know that jordan peterson is one of these people. I contacted Vorobjev clinic, i sent them my info and spoke briefly with the doc. He told me at 10 months the therapies they offer can't help me. They speak english perfectly there, please contact them and ask them for a quote, they won't give you one without reviewing your infomation. Once they do, they will tell you if your a candidate for treatment or not. I am curious what other forum members will receive, i like that they were honest and refused me because its a 6000 euro treatment normally.  I consider that very honest on their part and correct.

Wolfie,

 

I wanted to discourage "irrelevant" tangents.  If it relates to his treatment, then it is not an irrelevant tangent.  I did not catch that he was still on any kind of regimen, but admittedly, I cannot think clearly.  I would be surprised if her were on a some kind of cocktail.  I thought he received his treatment and was now more stable, but I could have missed it.

 

Is Vorobjev the clinic in Serbia?  How in the world could they possibly know that after "x" months their treatment would not be helpful?  Remember, to the rest of the world outside boards like this, benzo withdrawal did not exist until 2020 with ICD code F13.232 "Sedative, hypnotic, anxiolytic,  withdrawal etc." and it sure as heck does not last years like we have it.  Don't get me wrong, I think they are on to something good in Serbia, but much like the NAD+ folks, they might be a little short on neuroscience knowledge, and not yet sure how to "wield their power."

 

Shamo,

 

Leave it to you to find a place near you that will do xenon.  Do you think you will get it?

 

Having a mare,

 

Great find.  I will dig deeper when I can.

 

Be well buddies,

 

Ramcon1

Wolfie,

 

I wanted to discourage "irrelevant" tangents.  If it relates to his treatment, then it is not an irrelevant tangent.  I did not catch that he was still on any kind of regimen, but admittedly, I cannot think clearly.  I would be surprised if her were on a some kind of cocktail.  I thought he received his treatment and was now more stable, but I could have missed it.

 

Is Vorobjev the clinic in Serbia?  How in the world could they possibly know that after "x" months their treatment would not be helpful?  Remember, to the rest of the world outside boards like this, benzo withdrawal did not exist until 2020 with ICD code F13.232 "Sedative, hypnotic, anxiolytic,  withdrawal etc." and it sure as heck does not last years like we have it.  Don't get me wrong, I think they are on to something good in Serbia, but much like the NAD+ folks, they might be a little short on neuroscience knowledge, and not yet sure how to "wield their power."

 

Shamo,

 

Leave it to you to find a place near you that will do xenon.  Do you think you will get it?

 

Having a mare,

 

Great find.  I will dig deeper when I can.

 

Be well buddies,

 

Ramcon1

 

I'm pretty sure he's on some cocktail, its pretty standard treatment, even heather ashton encourages medication when there is sufficient need to treat symptoms (such as antidepressants for suicidality,  antipsychotics for agitation/sleep), ofcourse none of them actually heal the withdrawal but they can make it more comfortable especially the stage he was at when he went there.

 

Regarding the second question, yes Vorobjev clinic is in Serbia, thats where Jordan Peterson is, i sent my detailed medical history and told them i would fly from the USA for treatment. I spoke to Dr. Vorobjev he asked me a bunch of questions, he said the treatment they offer is not appropriate for me at my stage and that therapy would help more, that their treatment is more for the acute phase of withdrawal. I'm guessing because i already am fairly healed and spending 6k would deliver marginal benefit, my point is that they seem like decent people and they won't sell snake oil, i think at least for an appraisal they can give some guidance if it can help you.

 

https://vipvorobjev.com/en/

The idea that Jordan Peterson was treated with Xenon is in my opinion totally baseless. I don't see any evidence supporting this. Also, we simply don't know if he is feeling well now.

The idea that Jordan Peterson was treated with Xenon is totally baseless. Also, we simply don't know if he is feeling well now.

 

Mate...we started a new thread to avoid you. You're just trolling us now.

The idea that Jordan Peterson was treated with Xenon is totally baseless. Also, we simply don't know if he is feeling well now.

 

Mikheala and Jordan have referenced the Ashton manual, as well as demonstrated insider knowledge of the benzo buddies community consensus points.

 

if he found a treatment that worked. He would be ethically and duty-bound to share that knowledge immediately, and he has done that in the past with diet and other things, even though he wasn't able to confirm its efficacy ultimately.

 

Its like research ethics and professionalism 101. if you find a cure/treatment and you can alleviate a lot of suffering, you change course and rush to treat and alleviate suffering. He KNOWS that.

 

Given that, i think he therefore was just in a window when he talked about finding a treatment during that last interview in the OP.  because otherwise he wouldnt remain silent, he would tell the public his treatment to help others if it helped him.

 

That makes the most logical sense.

 

but agreed i dont know where this xenon treatment idea comes from and it seems out of left field. If someone could post to an explanation behind the xenon thing, that would be great, id like to look into it. but i dont see the connection to Jordan B Peterson.

Wolfie,

 

I wanted to discourage "irrelevant" tangents.  If it relates to his treatment, then it is not an irrelevant tangent.  I did not catch that he was still on any kind of regimen, but admittedly, I cannot think clearly.  I would be surprised if her were on a some kind of cocktail.  I thought he received his treatment and was now more stable, but I could have missed it.

 

Is Vorobjev the clinic in Serbia?  How in the world could they possibly know that after "x" months their treatment would not be helpful?  Remember, to the rest of the world outside boards like this, benzo withdrawal did not exist until 2020 with ICD code F13.232 "Sedative, hypnotic, anxiolytic,  withdrawal etc." and it sure as heck does not last years like we have it.  Don't get me wrong, I think they are on to something good in Serbia, but much like the NAD+ folks, they might be a little short on neuroscience knowledge, and not yet sure how to "wield their power."

 

Shamo,

 

Leave it to you to find a place near you that will do xenon.  Do you think you will get it?

 

Having a mare,

 

Great find.  I will dig deeper when I can.

 

Be well buddies,

 

Ramcon1

 

I'm pretty sure he's on some cocktail, its pretty standard treatment, even heather ashton encourages medication when there is sufficient need to treat symptoms (such as antidepressants for suicidality,  antipsychotics for agitation/sleep), ofcourse none of them actually heal the withdrawal but they can make it more comfortable especially the stage he was at when he went there.

 

Regarding the second question, yes Vorobjev clinic is in Serbia, thats where Jordan Peterson is, i sent my detailed medical history and told them i would fly from the USA for treatment. I spoke to Dr. Vorobjev he asked me a bunch of questions, he said the treatment they offer is not appropriate for me at my stage and that therapy would help more, that their treatment is more for the acute phase of withdrawal. I'm guessing because i already am fairly healed and spending 6k would deliver marginal benefit, my point is that they seem like decent people and they won't sell snake oil, i think at least for an appraisal they can give some guidance if it can help you.

 

https://vipvorobjev.com/en/

 

I am going to echo Wolfie's comments.  Without knowing what Peterson is currently prescribed, his previous treatments are useless to us.  It could be any number of meds are covering his symptoms.  It could be that none of those treatments actually did anything for him.