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Wanting help with direct taper of Lorazepam


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Hi all,

 

I'm looking for advice on how to do a dry taper, using a scale (not a liquid taper).  I'm getting really frustrated trying to make these small cuts accurately (which I've just been trying to do by eye and using a regular pill cutter), and I'm sure the unevenness of my doses is not helping my taper or my state of mind.  My pills are .5 mg and I have been cutting it in half, in quarters, and then cutting the quarters in half.  That last part (cutting the quarters in half) is where it has become basically impossible to get an exact cut by eye with a pill cutter.

 

I posted the question in the Lorazepam taper support group, and Pamster suggested I post it here to get help.  I would appreciate as much specific help as people can give me, because I never was great at math at the best of times, and benzo brain is definitely not helping with that!

 

Right now I am holding at (approximately?) .3125 mg.  I would like to stabilize there for a little while before cutting any more, as my symptoms have been really bad.

 

Thanks,

 

Haimona

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Hi Haimona,

 

I would be happy to help you.

 

Do you have a scale like this one

 

[nobbc]https://www.amazon.com/Smart-Weigh-Precision-Milligram-Calibration/dp/B011J88S8M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1541012152&sr=8-1&keywords=Smart+Weigh+Premium+High+Precision+Digital+Milligram+Scale+with+Case%2C+Tweezers%2C+Calibration+Weights+and+Three+Weighing+Pans%2C+50+x+0.001g)[/nobbc]

 

Basically, you pick how fast you want to taper each day or week and I will make you a chart of how much to weigh on the scale for each dose.  You can even make a bunch of doses ahead of time by placing the little bits of drug into a gel capsule like these [nobbc]https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PYV3L6K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1[/nobbc]

 

Send me a message if you want help.

 

Bob

Edit:  Deactivated commercial links

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Hi Bob,

 

Thank you so much! That scale you mentioned is listed as "unavailable" at Amazon now.  I don't have one yet.  Is there anything I need to make sure to look for in a similar scale? There seem to be quite a few.

 

I would love to get your help with the taper, and will send you a private message for that too.  My feeling is the best thing for me would be a very slow, gradual taper, whatever the slowest reasonable taper is.  I have been cutting and holding (sort of, what I've been doing is a reduced dose once a week, then twice a week, etc. until I get completely to the new lower dose), but each time I make a cut it seems to have a severe impact on me (sleep, cognition, memory, anxiety). 

 

I am so grateful for the help.

 

Haimona

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You want a scale which has 0.001 grams resolution (3 positions after the decimal point).

 

I just checked Amazon.  It is in stock.  [nobbc]https://www.amazon.com/Smart-Weigh-Precision-Milligram-Calibration/dp/B011J88S8M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1541012152&sr=8-1&keywords=Smart+Weigh+Premium+High+Precision+Digital+Milligram+Scale+with+Case%2C+Tweezers%2C+Calibration+Weights+and+Three+Weighing+Pans%2C+50+x+0.001g)

[/nobbc]

 

 

Maybe type in some key words into amazon?  Smart Weigh Premium High Precision Digital Milligram Scale with Case, Calibration Weights and Three Weighing Pans, 50 x 0.001grams

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I would love to get your help with the taper, and will send you a private message for that too. 

 

I understand Bob7 suggested you send a private message however, it's against forum policy to ask for or receive taper advice via PM.  This is for your protection in the event you get some bad advice, although I know Bob gives sound advice we still have to be careful.  When other members can see what's being suggested and it looks wrong to them they can speak up and perhaps spare another member from making a painful mistake.

 

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Sorry about that.

I really just meant to somehow tell me when they got the scale so we could get started with the math.

I know the importance of keeping stuff on the forum.

 

 

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Sorry about that.

I really just meant to somehow tell me when they got the scale so we could get started with the math.

I know the importance of keeping stuff on the forum.

 

I figured that was the case Bob, just clarifying for everyone else.  :thumbsup:  I'm so glad you're comfortable with the math, you're a gem.  :smitten:

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Thanks again, Bob! This time when I clicked the link the scale was available, so I just ordered it.  I will post again in this thread once I get it.  I so appreciate both of your help, Bob and Pamster.  It is a great comfort to know I don't have to figure this out alone.

 

Haimona

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Hi again,

 

I did get the scale, though I haven't set it up yet.  I plan to do that tomorrow.  It just occurred to me to wonder: am I going to need any special equipment to crush the pills with? Can I use something I might have on hand?

 

Thanks again,

 

Haimona

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Hi again,

 

I did get the scale, though I haven't set it up yet.  I plan to do that tomorrow.  It just occurred to me to wonder: am I going to need any special equipment to crush the pills with? Can I use something I might have on hand?

 

Thanks again,

 

Haimona

I had good luck using just a ceramic bowl and a metal spoon and a crush them very nicely.

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Okay, thanks, Bob.  I will set the scale up and be ready to start using it, tomorrow.  For right now I just want to measure my .3125 mg dose (from a .5 mg pill) to get it as close to exact as possible, and stay there for a week or two.  How should I do that? 

 

Thanks,

 

Haimona

 

 

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I can help you with that but 1st I need you to do a measurement for me.

 

Put 10 of your pills on the scale and tell me the weight.

 

I will divide it by 10 to get the average weight per pill and then I can finish the math to get to 0.3125 mg of drug.

 

Please confirm your pills are tablets and not capsules filled with a powder.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi again,

 

I know it has been a while -- there was a problem with the first scale, so I had to wait for a new one to arrive.  I just tried placing 10 pills on the scale, and 3 out of the 6 times I tried it, I got a weight of .597.  Once, I got .598, and twice, .596.  I think maybe I should try calibrating it and see if I get more consistent weights? I didn't do that before I started.

 

This is the first time I have tried using a scale like this, so I'm not feeling too sure of myself.

 

Thanks,

 

Haimona

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Update: I calibrated the scale, then weighed the ten pills three more times.  The first time, the weight read .598, and the second and third times, .597.  Should I go with the .597 number? It has come up the majority of the times I've weighed.  Or is there something else I can do other than calibrate, to get the scale more consistent?

 

Thanks,

 

Haimona

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Oh, and I just realized there is a little plastic bowl-type object in the box.  Should I be putting the pills on that to weigh them? It's a bit confusing to me.  Sorry about all the questions!

 

Haimona

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Haimona,

 

All those numbers are fine.  Do not worry if the scale changes on the last digit.  It is insignificant.  It will not cause any problems.  It is in the noise in terms of what we need to do with the scale.  We can just use the 0.597 gram number.

 

So follow this math. 

 

Since ten pills weight 0.597 grams, then the average weight of one pill is 0.0597 grams (g).

 

Since each pill has 0.5 mg (milligrams) of drug in it, the ratio of [scale weight to drug weight] is 0.0597/0.5 = 0.1194 g/mg

 

To weigh your current dose of 0.3125 on the scale, you multiply 0.3125 by 0.1194 = 0.037 grams

 

To be clear, weigh 0.037 grams of your crushed pill on a scale to get 0.3125 mg of drug.

 

You should be able to weigh that amount on your scale but be warned, as you get lower and lower in dose, the weight will get so small, your scale will not be useful.  To make it useful, you will need to add microcrystalline Cellulose so the weight on the scale is large enough to trust the scale.  Does that make sense?

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

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Oh, and I just realized there is a little plastic bowl-type object in the box.  Should I be putting the pills on that to weigh them? It's a bit confusing to me.  Sorry about all the questions!

 

Haimona

You can use the bowl or not - the important thing is your tare the scale (zero it out).  Do you know how to zero it out?

Also, did you see my last message about how much to weigh?

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Hi Bob,

 

Thank you! I have not tried to "tare" or zero out the scale yet.  I think the instruction book does say how to do that, so I will look at it now.  I really appreciate your help.

 

Haimona

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Hi Bob,

 

I am confused again.  In the instruction booklet, it says you would "tare" if you want to subtract the weight of an empty container from what you are weighing.  But I am not planning to use any empty containers (unless you mean that I should "tare" the scale if I am using the little plastic bowl?)

 

Thanks,

 

Haimona

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Two things.

First, since you did not tare the scale, please ignore my message with all the math in it.  It is wrong if the scale was not tared.  I will try to delete that message.

 

Second, the only thing tare does, is to make the scale read zero.  The scale MUST read zero before you place any pills on it.

 

So, if you put a plastic bowl on the scale, then tare to zero out the display.

 

Or, if you do not have a plastic bowl, you must still tare to zero out the display.

 

Does this make sense?

 

After you tare, please weigh 10 more pills.

 

It is past my bedtime so if you have more questions, I may not see them until morning.

 

Bob

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I guess it makes sense.  What you are describing sounds more like the calibration I did than what the scale's booklet is calling the tare function.  But I will try taring without an empty container, and see what happens.
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According to the taring instructions in the scale's booklet, you have to use an empty container of some sort in order to tare.  It seems to be part of the taring process.  Anyway, I did it with the little plastic bowl, and let it tell me the net weight of the pills in the bowl using the tare function.  It gave me a net weight of .599 or .598 (I tried it twice).  Then I recalibrated, and weighed the ten pills again without using the little bowl.  I got a net weight of .597 again. 
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According to the taring instructions in the scale's booklet, you have to use an empty container of some sort in order to tare.  It seems to be part of the taring process.  Anyway, I did it with the little plastic bowl, and let it tell me the net weight of the pills in the bowl using the tare function.  It gave me a net weight of .599 or .598 (I tried it twice).  Then I recalibrated, and weighed the ten pills again without using the little bowl.  I got a net weight of .597 again.

Ok good- it looks like you know what you are doing.

So, you can now tare (zero out) the scale with our without a empty container.

Then, you can put bits of drug on your scale to weigh out a particular dose.  Based on the 0.597 grams for 10 pills, you would weigh 0.037 grams of your pill on a scale to get 0.3125 mg of drug.

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OK, great.  Thank you! I want to hold for a few days to a week at that dose, since I suspect my actual dosing has been pretty uneven.  Once I am ready to taper again, what is the smallest reasonable reduction I could make? And is it reasonable to make very small reductions and hold for a bit after each one, or is it better to make the tiny reductions and keep doing so daily, or until you hit a bad patch and need to hold for a while? (I hope that question made sense).

 

Thanks again,

 

Haimona

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