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Klonopin 1mg daily - 12.5% cut every 3 weeks


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Hello friends,

 

So many posts (and information! and terminology!) so I’ll try to keep this short. I just joined BB today and I’ve learned a lot already. I can see that everyone is different and there are different approaches. I have a plan that I started; I’m on day 5. If I find during my taper that I’m not feeling well then I can hold for longer and push out the schedule.

 

If you have any thoughts on how I’m approaching this, please let me know. I welcome anything and thank you in advance. If you have any questions, I’m an open book.

 

Background

  • I’ve been on the same dose of clonazepam for at least 12 years.
  • I take .5mg twice a day. Once in the morning and once at night.
  • I’ve always been on this dose and follow it exactly. I feel no withdrawal symptoms in between doses.
  • I want to wean myself off because I no longer want to be dependent on anything. I stopped smoking in 2001. I stopped drinking in 2008.

 

Taper Plan

  • Reduce by 12.5% every three weeks for 20ish weeks.
  • I am on day 5: .5 mg pill in the morning. And .375 in the evening. I’m just cutting these pills with a pill cutter and trying to be as exact as possible. I’ve read about the alternatives like dissolving in a liquid.
  • Original dose: .5 (morning) / .5 (evening)
    Weeks 1-3: .5 / .375
    Weeks 4-6: .375 / .375
    Weeks 6-8: .375 / .25
    Weeks 9-11 .25 / .25
    Weeks 12-14 .25 / .125
    Weeks 15-17 .125 / .125
    Weeks 18-20 .125 morning only
    Week 21 - stop?

 

I’m aware that the 12.5% cuts I’m attempting is greater than the recommended 5-10%. Initially, I was going to reduce over 21 weeks by 25% cuts and hold longer but I ditched that idea and will instead try and reduce more gradually over the same period of time.

 

I don’t have this figured out. I know I’m completely dependent on this drug after being on it for so long. So if you have any thoughts, advice, or words of encouragement, let me know. Thank you!

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[4a...]
Don't get too attached to the cut size or the schedule.  See how it goes for you.  You may need to make smaller cuts as your taper progresses.  For example, when you cut from 2x 0.125 to 1x 0.125, that's a 50% cut which may be a bit intense.  You'll see as you go along.  People are able to taper at very different rates.  Listen to your body and adjust the taper rate if needed.
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Hi badsocref,

 

Thanks for the reply. I had actually read your success story earlier today! And I wanted to tell you how much meditation has been getting me through this year. Before Covid, I never really meditated. Your meditating under the moon and stars listening to ambient music sounded awesome. I enjoyed reading your success story. Congratulations. Yes, I hear you about not getting attached to a schedule.

 

This is so arbitrary but I picked this schedule partly because I would be close to being done by Christmas. If I can be rid of K from my life (and I know it could take years) I’ll be so happy. I am thinking of it as an Xmas gift to myself. But I’m prepared to double the length of time or whatever. 12 years on this, I don’t know how my body is going to react.

 

I’ve also read that there are some people who are “resistant” to coming off K. As in, they just couldn’t at all. If that’s true, then I hope I’m not one of them and that I can truly taper off of K and return to whatever normal is. i don’t quite remember what I am like without K.

 

It could go any number of ways. As I write this, I am feeling that even with my small reduction so far ... I feel different today, day 5. A tightness in my head. Thanks for the warning about the 50% cut.

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Wow I’m not very good at math. Ugh.

 

This plan of mine doesn’t have me reducing by 12.5% cuts. I’ll be reducing by .125mg each time and that percentage gets larger thus your comment about 50% at the end. I swear I’m not an idiot lol.

 

12.5%

14.3%

16.7%

20.0%

25.0%

33.3%

50.0%

 

Yikes. This sounds more daunting to me.

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[4a...]
There are linear tapers (same mg cut every week), and there are first-order tapers (same % cut every week).  Most people around here tend to do first-order tapers.  A lot of doctors propose linear tapers, but I think a lot of them don't believe that a normal person can weigh out mg aliquots of pill pieces.  It's quite easy - just need an inexpensive milligram scale.
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There are linear tapers (same mg cut every week), and there are first-order tapers (same % cut every week).  Most people around here tend to do first-order tapers.  A lot of doctors propose linear tapers, but I think a lot of them don't believe that a normal person can weigh out mg aliquots of pill pieces.  It's quite easy - just need an inexpensive milligram scale.

 

Alright, i just watched some videos and it does seem pretty easy. I need a scale, a file. And I will take another look at my taper plan. Thank you!

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Badsocref,

 

I used this to create a taper schedule:

http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/direct/directForm.php

 

Question about tablet weight...if each tablet weighs a little different, can I just razor blade/file off the tablet to what the taper schedule weight says it should be for the day? Grin

 

Or do I have to do the math everyday based on the weight of the specific pills? How do reconcile that with what the taper weight says?

 

Thanks

 

 

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[4a...]

I couldn't make sense out of that form.  I've always just made XLS spreadsheets to calculate tapers.

 

If you want to do a first order taper, you just multiply your current dose times the percent retained dose.  A 5% reduction is 95% retention.  10% reduction is 90% retention.  So a 7% reduction using a 0.200 gram tablet would mean taking 0.186 grams (93% retention).  The next 7% reduction is calculated from 0.186 grams (93% of 0.186 grams = 0.173 grams).  Next reduction is based on 0.173 grams, and so on...

 

Use the average weight of a pill for all calculations.

 

I designed a fancy xls spreadsheet some years ago.  If you'd like, I can send you a link to it.  It's got a lot more bells/whistles than is really necessary, but if you like charts and data, it'll generate it.  It's really designed more for a daily micro-taper, but could be adapted for a cut and hold taper.

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I couldn't make sense out of that form.  I've always just made XLS spreadsheets to calculate tapers.

 

If you want to do a first order taper, you just multiply your current dose times the percent retained dose.  A 5% reduction is 95% retention.  10% reduction is 90% retention.  So a 7% reduction using a 0.200 gram tablet would mean taking 0.186 grams (93% retention).  The next 7% reduction is calculated from 0.186 grams (93% of 0.186 grams = 0.173 grams).  Next reduction is based on 0.173 grams, and so on...

 

Use the average weight of a pill for all calculations.

 

I designed a fancy xls spreadsheet some years ago.  If you'd like, I can send you a link to it.  It's got a lot more bells/whistles than is really necessary, but if you like charts and data, it'll generate it.  It's really designed more for a daily micro-taper, but could be adapted for a cut and hold taper.

 

Thanks badsocref :)

 

I used the form to create a daily taper schedule that gets me down .125mg every three weeks still and it reduces a little on both pills each day rather than how i had it. And I don’t need to stick to the schedule I can just use it and pause when I need to. My evolution of thinking has so far been: 1) start off with big cuts and hold for a long stretches. Then 2) smaller cuts of .125mg every three weeks (which is when I joined BB). To finally 3) daily micro cuts which I’d like to start ... as soon as i get that scale.

 

I’d love to see your fancy spreadsheet. Moving toward a daily micro taper makes the most sense it seems, the scale arrives on Monday. I have been hoping it would get here sooner. But i have the nail file lol and I’m getting some razor blades.

 

I had a chat with my PCP yesterday by phone. I didn’t bring tapering off with her. She’s very cool but I’d rather get this done on my own (and with the help of this board and people like you) and then eventually tell her I no longer need the prescription. Anyways, prescription renewed for another three months which is good.

 

If you’re fine sharing the spreadsheet, I’m a sponge for information right now and would love to see the thinking you put into it. All I have is time right now.

 

I hope you’re well.

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Wow, thank you. I downloaded Excel onto my Mac and have been playing with it. It's a thing of beauty. It never occurred to me to keep track of my physical, mental, and emotional symptoms so meticulously. So that's exactly why I wanted to see your guide; it's illuminating. Right now I write in a note on my iPhone. I just add a couple lines about how I'm feeling to my daily corona diary.

 

I will stick with my plan first and if it gets hairy then I will use yours to track it all.

 

One question: I take two pills each day. So what I could do is enter in the 1mg (.5 + .5) into "Current Dose" and then take the value for "Today's Dose" and divide by 2. And then I'd have the dose for each pill. Does that sound logical?

 

* I do admire how much thought was put into this. Your instructions are fantastic. This guide is a much more open and forgiving approach. A kinder approach to one trying to get off. It leaves the decision on a purely day by day basis. It's very different than my print outs detailing exactly what each dose should be from now until the end of the year. lol. Now I get your feelings toward that link I posted. I won't let these print outs dictate how fast I go though.

 

I started by reducing my evening pill by one cut. Now that I have a scale I am reducing my morning pill to a point where it matches my evening pill. Then, I'll start reducing both pills each day in sync (if I'm feeling ok and am not holding).

 

Anyways, thank you again. If I use your tapering guide, I will let you know. Be well.

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[4a...]

It's got a lot of bells and whistles for sure.  Let me know if you have any questions. 

 

Your approach to double dosing sounds fine.

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  • 1 month later...

I've reduced down to .5 from 1.0 doing a daily micro taper using crushed up pills and a scale. This is pretty remarkable for me, I'm happy about it. I never thought I'd be able to reduce my intake by 1/2 like this. Except for some general irritability and difficulty staying asleep, it's been okay.

 

Just wanted to provide this small update. Hopefully things don't get too hairy going forward.

 

 

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WIP (and badsocref)  Awaiting my scale.  It should be here tomorrow or next day. Planning on 10% every 2-3 weeks, using formula badsocref and others have provided.

 

I also am taking .5mg 2 times a day (1mg) for a little over 2 yrs.  BUT, very sensitive, as a previous Xanax taper, too much, then ct, gone wrong, sent me to ER.  And hence, was started on the Klonopin.  Not sure why I want to taper off Klonopin, in this time of Covid, social issues, govt gone wrong, climate change..... but would like to see if I can do it, and what it would be like to be benzo free.  Also on Ambien, currently tapering.  I discussed all of this in another thread, but thought I'd give you some background.

 

And so, now why I'm posting this...... WIP, how is it going for you?  It's been about a week since your last post.

 

Be safe, be well, my best!

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Hi oneday3693,

 

Well shucks, thanks for asking how it’s going for me. It’s nice to meet another person with the same dosage I was at with K. I’ve been thinking more about the years before K and trying to figure out what I was doing. I’m pretty sure starting in 2004 I began using Xanax. So I was probably on Xanax for a couple years and then switched to K. I’ve also been prescribed Lunesta for years. I had a few bad experiences with Ambien so stopped that and had a steady prescription for generic Lunesta. Thankfully, I never developed a dependence on them. So since the start of my K taper, I haven’t taken anything for sleep. I’m trying to keep this as pure of a taper as possible. I’m grateful that I have the luxury of being able to keep it simple.

 

So yeah I hit my 50% reduction and posted about it. I have been trying not to get too excited though. In the back of my mind, I keep hoping I will be one of those guys who ends up having a pretty tame taper with mild to no withdrawal issues. So here’s to hoping!

 

When I first started, I realized after a couple weeks that cutting was a complete pain. Switching to powder has been so much better. I also had to get used to the scale and weighing not being super perfect. If I weigh it 10 times trying to get it perfect each time, it will drive me crazy. I go to the bathroom, make sure the door is closed, the fan isn’t on, and I’ll weigh my powder out once in the morning and then again at night. I’ll take it in the morning usually with a spoonful of yogurt. At night I might pour it onto a piece of fruit or a spoonful of apple sauce. I keep my printed out schedule in the bathroom and just check off the days as I go. It’s become pretty mundane and doesn’t require a lot of thought. I now see how cut and hold steps was totally the wrong approach for me. This daily micro taper is exactly what I need to be doing and I thank this board and the people who talked to me for guiding me to understand this.

 

Last night, I had at least 3 different, super detailed and visual dreams. They were neither bad nor good. But they were so full, immense, and vibrant that they seem different than the dreams I’m used to: forgettable and often forgotten. So it makes me wonder if it has anything to do with my brain repairing itself. I hope so.

 

Stress will mess me up. My father doesn’t care too much about risking his health when it comes to Covid. But he lives with my mom and she takes it seriously. So when he takes risks, he’s putting her at risk. There was an incident that stressed me out. And I can tell that my body handles stress differently now. Another example has been RBG passing and the SCOTUS. I had to limit my news intake because I knew it would rile me up too much. I think I am more fragile as I go through this...and when stressed I’m not as drugged out to deal with it the same way. So I suggest trying to be mindful to avoid letting yourself get too stressed. I think that’s good advice for anyone really whether or not they’re trying to quit benzos. :)

 

I’m sorry about that CT that sent you to the ER. That’s one of my biggest motivators really. If I was taken (abducted lol) and dropped in a jungle somewhere with no access to drugs, I would hate to find myself in that situation. First I’d need to survive :) but second, having to deal with benzo CT withdrawl?! I don’t know what would happen. I don’t want this drug to have that power over me. Also, I’ve thought about hiking the AT one day and having to deal with refills during the hike - no thank you. I think of being off this drug as me becoming more powerful. More resilient. More independent.

 

I do understand though the question of “why quit?” I never needed to up my dosage for 12 years. I could just keep on being on it. But...I feel I may have lost a bit of who I am being on this drug. Again, like with the dreams, I can’t be certain that this is due to the taper but I find when I’m laughing it feels more hearty. More real. And if that’s happening then that is fantastic. I have self doubt too that the obnoxious sides of me may be bubbling up. I have to just let myself go with it. If I look at this logically and ask myself do I really need this drug then the answer is no. And thus I shouldn’t be on it. I never needed it.

 

You’ve bought a scale, worked out a schedule, begun the taper. Reached out on this board. Seems pretty clear to me that you want to be off of K even if you don’t know exactly why. And to me, that seems like a great start. If everything works out, I will take great pride in knowing I got off K during Covid. In a way, I think of it as me making the most out of this screwed up time. I am using 2020 (and beyond) to improve myself. I believe one of the best ways I can help others is to make sure I am in a good place. Self care!

 

I wish you all the best too and look forward to following your progress!

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Dear badsocref,

 

I made it to .25mg. When I started, it didn’t occur to me how the amount I would be weighing out each morning and evening would change so dramatically. It also didn’t really register that the same bottle of pills that would last me a month would end up lasting much longer because of the reduction.

 

I will be paying extra attention to how I feel since the percentage decrease is growing larger with each reduction. I’m relieved i was able to get my prescription refilled. This means I have more than enough to get me through to the end, if everything goes well. I’m grateful to be here.

 

Anyways, just wanted to post a small note on where I am. I hope you’re well!

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  • 2 weeks later...
Hi WIP. I just registered here and your original plan sounds just like my original plan and I realize I too need to change. I was on 1mg for years and dry cut down to approx .87 and have been on that for the last 10 days. I feel pretty lousy. I want to change my approach and  get a scale and decrease as you are. Would you be willing to tell me which scale you purchased and how you decreased? Your progress is so promising to me!! Thanks so much.
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Chasingsunshine,

 

Sorry for the delayed response, I just saw your message. How are you doing? Looks like you ordered the same scale as I did. What I also did was bought a mortar and pestle. I got a pretty good steel one that crushes those K pills super easily. Here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H7DRSM6/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_9QQTFbQ6E802M?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 So I’ll weigh out what I need before each dose. I stick to the schedule that I made and printed it out and mark off each day as I finish.

 

In the past when I tried to reduce by 25% in one go and then when I got a little smarter and tried cutting and holding, I could really feel the effects of those reductions. But with a daily micro taper, nothing has been too horrible for me. A few times when my eyes are closed, my eyeballs feel like they’re very twitchy. I also might be feeling a low grade constant tenseness/anxiety. I also know I clench my jaw a lot more and have to tell myself: relax your jaw. Getting super stressed is bad bc...I’m no longer constrained by the blanketing effect of K.

 

Anyways about that scale...in the beginning I was driving myself crazy trying to get it perfect. “Perfect” meaning able to get the same reading for the dose multiple times in a row. Then I read something here that said as long as you are moving in the right direction generally (down) then you’re good. So that was signal for me to let go of it being perfect. I will sometimes try to let the scale warm up but honestly it’s rare . At first I was constantly calibrating but I haven’t done that in a long time. I just use the little tray that the scale comes with. And I take a plastic spoon and scoop up some powder from the mortar and slowly pour powder into the tray until it weighs what I need it too. If it’s jumping around, I may take the tray off and put it back onto the scale. Or, i might dump the powder back onto my spoon, tare the scale with the tray on it, and pour it back onto the tray and see what reading I get. But I generally don’t futz around with it more than a couple times. I take the tray with the powder off the scale when it says the weight I’m looking for. I do follow my schedule correctly and use the scale to get the powder to weigh what it needs to. Anyways, that’s what I do.

 

I used to take the tray and pour it onto a piece of fruit: a bit of banana, or a strawberry, a fig, or apple sauce. But now after I weigh it, i just dump the powder in my mouth. Saves time!

 

Today I’m at .125 which is a quarter of one pill (of two that I would take). It’s crazy for me to think so little of the drug is running through me now relative to before I started this taper. But I am also very aware that I’m basically reducing at 4+ percent each day now and that this daily percent decrease is just going to get bigger faster. I put a note on my sheet to consider adding a hold day between reductions. I’ll see how I feel. One day at a time. Oh the low sounding ringing is definitely noticeable. Tinnitus. It’s almost like this built in white noise machine in my head.

 

Let me know if you have any other questions and maybe some of my other posts might interest you...when I talked earlier on about what I was feeling. I haven’t posted much. I used this group (and the helpful folks) to create a good foundation to begin the taper. Then I have just been executing on it.

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