Sporadic high-dose Alprazolam/Clonazepam taper advice

If someone could hear me out and offer any kind of feedback or support, I would appreciate it immensely because I am really scared and confused at the moment.

As I mentioned in my introduction post, recently I've become quite lost as to how to safely approach kicking my benzo habit because of the lack of resources available on how to taper for non-daily users.

I haven't written a signature yet because tbh it's impossible for me to recall how much I used and at what frequency since i first start experimenting with Xanax in 2010. My best guess would be something like:

~ 2010-2012: irresponsibly high doses of Xanax but very irregularly (say 2mg-4mg at a time, never more than 3 days in a row, often months in between)

~ Start of 2013: first experienced withdrawal after 12 days of binging xanax with alcohol, and other pharms like Tramadol, codeine, etc (I'm surprised I'm alive). Couldn't sleep for 3 days. Suicidal thoughts, paranoida, depersonalisation, no seizures luckily (especially considering I stupidly took Tramadol thinking it might help me sleep those nights, not knowing about it lowering the seizure threshold)

~ 2013-2014 (maybe 2015): periods of Xanax abuse (never more than 4mg a day), occasionally several days in a row but again, often months between doses.

~ 2015-2017 (maybe 2018): No access to benzos at all I don't think.

~ late 2018 through 2019: access to xanax again, started experimenting with etizolam and phenibut as well, started logging my usage, making sure never to take more than 3 days in a row/week and try to take 2 week breaks every now and then, but really started upping the dosages (sometimes 8mg in a day, often mixed with alcohol).

~ late 2019: went off the rails, very high doses of xanax (6-8mg) most weekends, mixed with alcohol and other party drugs. Often used ~2mg on weekdays to cope with anxiety of new job.

~ Early 2020: went three months off all benzos, with minimal use of alcohol. Experienced surprisingly little withdrawal.

~ Late March - May 1 2020: Occasional use of clonazepam, nitrazepam, xanax. Tried to stay away as much as possible.

~ May 1 - June 1 2020: clonazepam a few days in a row sometimes, valium, temazepam used occasionally. Mostly in binges and then stopping for a week.

~ June 1 - June 14 2020: started logging my usage again, seriously trying to come off for good. Tended to use 1mg clonazepam every second day early June, sometimes took two days off, sometimes only 0.5mg in a day.

Most recently,

~ Mid-June 2020 binge: 14th - 4mg, 15th - 8mg, 16th - 6mg (all clonazepam)

~ 17th - 26th: had enough, didn't touch anything (no alcohol either); tried C/T not knowing what the best thing to do was considering I was not a long-term daily user and the Ashton Manual would have me taking benzos daily for another 6 months? I did not want that nor did I think it was necessary.

By the 10th day of my C/T, I was feeling pretty horrid but was willing to power through. Probably the worst experience of benzo withdrawal I've had, and only the second where I'd consider my symptoms to be physical (racing heart, hyperventilation, literally impossible to concentrate on work). Was starting to feel windows maybe? Although I did realise the worst was likely to come.

On the 27th I had an important but absolutely terrifying weekend away with friends I didn't know too well (terrifying because my anxiety was through the roof at this point). I told myself I would use a weaker benzo just an emergency dose and continue the C/T after that. Well I relapsed hard and here's how that went:

27/6/2020 30mg oxazepam, 8mg clonaz, lots of alcohol

28/6/2020 6mg clonaz

29/6/2020 11mg clonaz

30/6/2020 2mg clonaz

1/7/2020 6mg clonaz

2/7/2020 4mg clonaz

3/7/2020 4mg clonaz

4/7/2020 2mg clonaz

5/7/2020 Nothing. Ready to get off this stuff again.

I have something like 19 2mg clonazepams and 48 5mg valiums. Considering the history and pattern of my use and just knowing my body from past experiences, I've come up with this rapid taper plan

6/7/2020: 1.5mg clonaz, 10mg diaz

7/7/2020 1.5mg clonaz, 5mg diaz

8/7/2020 1mg clonaz, 10mg diaz

9/7/2020 1mg clonaz, 7.5mg diaz, 10mg Baclofen

10/7/2020 0.5mg clonaz, 7.5mg diaz

11/7/2020 0.5mg clonaz, 5mg diaz

12/7/2020 7.5mg diaz, 10mg Baclofen

13/7/2020  5mg diaz

14/7/2020 10mg Baclofen

15/7/2020 2.5mg diaz

16/7/2020 10mg Baclofen

17/7/2020 2.5mg diaz

18/7/2020 10mg Baclofen

19/7/2020 10mg Baclofen

20/7/2020 10mg Baclofen

21/7/2020 2.5mg diaz

22/7/2020 10mg Baclofen

23/7/2020 Nothing

24/7/2020 10mg Baclofen

25/7/2020 Nothing

26/7/2020 5mg Baclofen

27/7/2020 Nothing

28/7/2020 5mg Baclofen

I should note I've had moderate success with Baclofen for both sleep and combating cravings in the past. I realise it's a GABA-B agonist and withdrawals can be just as bad if not worse but from what I understand, unlikely Phenibut, it mostly targets GABA-B and hence there is no cross-tolerance with any benzos which target GABA-A. If i had access to Gabapentin or Pregablin I would most likely be incorporating it once I jump off at 2.5mg diaz just to put my mind @ ease if anything re: seizure risk.

The only resource I've been able to find on what is even defined as "long-term use" (or more specifically, the period over which to taper based on your period of daily use) is this document from Presbyterian Healthcare Services(?): http://docs.phs.org/cs/groups/public/documents/phscontent/pel_00943236.pdf

From this document, I've determined since my period of daily use was <3 months (although very high doses), then tapering over about a week will at least lessen the pain that I experienced from the C/T attempt a few weeks ago. I know about kindling, I know about the risk of protracted withdrawal taking longer if you come off too rapidly, I know about the risk of seizures. As you can see I'm taking the general advice of Ashton to substitute to diazepam at the tail end of the taper. Of course I will be avoiding alcohol, trying to exercise, CBT, all that. I am also considering trying L-theanine, Bacopa Monnieri and Magnesium as i've heard these can aid in GABA upregulation but aren't agonists?

I realise the Ashton Manual is the authoritative document on safely getting off benzos but I don't think a slow extended taper is necessary in my case, nor do I really have access to the resources to do it.

I don't know what I'm asking, really. I guess I'm hoping someone will be able to tell me that this should be fine but to expect inevitable suffering for a few weeks/months, or that somebody has a similar pattern of use to me and has tapered this way successfully before.

I should note that I am about 90kg. I probably wouldn't be alive if I had been mixing alcohol with such high doses of benzos as I used to.

If anyone's read all this, thank you. Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this. This is my second post and browsing the forum, I can already sense there is a very warm community of people here. The success stories are really giving me hope.

<3

Thanks for doing your best to inform us of your usage, to tell you the truth it kind of scares me, you've taken some risks. 

I have a question, why are you looking at a rapid taper, you mention the amount of pills you have to taper with but from your history you seem to be able to procure what you need, so why risk a rapid taper?

Your use may have been sporadic but it's been significant and I feel you're looking at a great deal of suffering by going too fast. 

Thanks for responding and your honesty. I guess my decision to go rapidly is based on my experience of three months following C/T at the start of the year not being too bad at all, and since then spending more days not being on benzos than being on them. I realise the recent C/T following the mid-June 3 day binge was not wise but by the 12th day I could feel myself getting better which also makes me feel like my body isn't too physically dependent.

What would you advise though? I really don't want to taper over any more than 2 weeks, 1 month maximum. I've never used benzos daily for that long in my life so it doesn't make sense. I also think by taking the weeks/months/year breaks throughout my period of usage has given my brain a chance to heal significantly. Do you think a cross-over to diazepam after a week is a good idea and then continuing to taper diazepam for up to 3 weeks? Or I could just feel it out after my week long rapid taper, and see how I feel after a week, taking 5mg valium when I feel symptoms become unbearable and repeat with ideally a lower dosage (say 3.75mg) if the same thing happens again. Or is this considered a type of kindling?

I couldn't help but notice you went C/T off a similar dosage of K to me in my last C/T attempt, although my use was nowhere near as long as yours. Do you mind me asking when the peak of the withdrawal hit, because that's a huge dose to C/T off after such a long period of use?

Thanks so much, sorry I have so many questions!   

You know your body better than I and you're experienced in terms of stopping and starting benzo's, so I'll defer to your self awareness but I don't feel a cross to Valium would be beneficial, it will just increase your time on the drug. 

Tapers are so individual, no two are the same and they're basically experiments we perform on ourselves so you might as well start yours then see where it takes you.  The most successful tapers are those that are adjusted when symptoms dictate the changes. 

Yeah, my cold turkey wasn't pleasant, my symptoms started around day 3 and peaked two or three weeks later with full recovery in about 14 months. 

I was just under the impression that crossover to valium was the generally recommended way of tapering since the half-life is longer and its potency is lower. I like your analogy about tapering being experiments on ourselves and I see what you mean. I think reading about the poor people who have unfortunately gone into long-term protracted withdrawal after 2 weeks of very low dose usage has scared me into considering long-term tapers as the only solution. But based on my past experience, only having really experienced painful withdrawal symptoms twice and giving my body long enough breaks to ensure recovery, your words about tapers being individual resonate with me and give me some guidance.

And wow, I would've expected the peak of your withdrawal to be delayed and more drawn out than the commonly cited 2-3 weeks. This is somewhat encouraging to me because I think I got a taste of the worst of it already after 12 days.

Thanks again 

Most members taper directly from their benzo because many Dr's in the US are unwilling to cross their patients over to Valium.  I'm glad you can separate yourself from some of the stories you read here, as I mentioned, we're all different and there are so many factors involved in what will determine who easily recovers vs those who will suffer long term. 

I'll be interested to hear how you're doing, I hope you'll keep us updated.  Every post on the forum will help someone looking for answers so you're helping someone else when you document your journey. 

Every post on the forum will help someone looking for answers so you're helping someone else when you document your journey. 

For sure, I think that's why this community is so valuable.

So far so good though  . Jumped from 2.5mg diaz today. Been a week since my last dose of clonazepam. Feeling ok; being outside in the sun, any physical or social activity that I can manage and having something to focus on are proving to be very important as many people report.

Wondering if 1.25mg diaz could be used on any days over the next few weeks where symptoms are unbearable or if that will reset the taper. I know this question is asked a lot and there's no right answer because there's too many variables but I'm hoping it doesn't come to having to take a "rescue dose". Looking into ordering some supplements to aid recovery, namely Bacopa monnieri, L-theanine and magnesium malate but also questioning if taking all 3 of these is overkill. I guess I'll read/ask around and feel it out. 

Edit: Ok, after reading through this thread, I've decided to postpone any experimentation with supplements until I feel like I'm through the worst of it.

So glad to read you reconsidered your supplement experimentation for now, I've read too many stories about uncomfortable reactions while our nervous system is so sensitive.

Congratulations on getting off of the Clonazepam, keep in mind that Valium is very slow to leave your body so you may begin to feel some symptoms as the days and weeks go by.  As for rescue doses, I hate to see it because it reinforces our sense of if I feel bad I can take a pill but from what I've seen an occasional rescue dose won't have much effect on your overall recovery. 

Things are going bad. Lots of stressors in my life led me to relapse hard. I've realised it's very easy to scare yourself into thinking you're doomed forever when these things happen, and you're going to die from a seizure while driving a car if you didn't follow your taper plan to a tee.

I guess upon reflection (and sorry, I am rambling a bit here) my initial statement was inaccurate. Sure, I relapsed on the kpins and have now been using benzos daily longer than I ever have before but I think this feels more comfortable for me as there are tried and tested regimens once you have stabilised your use.

I think it would be an appropriate time to start a topic in Progress Logs.

Peace

I'm sorry to hear things aren't going well for you but glad you checked in, starting a progress log sounds like a good idea, you're aware there is no member input on those, right?

I hope you know that BenzoBuddies isn't anti benzo, if you decide to stay on them for now or always we'll support you.