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Regrowing new gaba receptors


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I don’t understand that. Would think it would be the opposite?

 

Having more gaba doesn't affect number of gaba receptors, as such, then patients who are on antiepilepsy medication would go through benzo w/d all the time.

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I don’t understand that. Would think it would be the opposite?

 

Having more gaba doesn't affect number of gaba receptors, as such, then patients who are on antiepilepsy medication would go through benzo w/d all the time.

Not all antiepilepsy medications are benzos.

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I don’t understand that. Would think it would be the opposite?

 

Having more gaba doesn't affect number of gaba receptors, as such, then patients who are on antiepilepsy medication would go through benzo w/d all the time.

Not all antiepilepsy medications are benzos.

 

Thats point i'm making, most anti-convulsants increase gaba, but they don't increase gaba receptor growth. I took lyrica and gabapentin and had major relief from benzo withdrawal (lyrica worked better), depakote, lamictal, topirimate, and rest of them are not benzo based (they work in various ways), but none of them have benzo w/d after taking them, even though they increase gaba. Increasing gaba does not cause gaba receptor downregulation. Changing the way gaba receptors react to gaba (as benzo's do) causes the change in receptor function, as higher and lower levels of gaba are normal....

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I figure anything that raises GABA is likely to decrease GABAA.

A person who did a lot of research on it says that more gaba will signal the brain to create new gaba a receptors..

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[ae...]

I figure anything that raises GABA is likely to decrease GABAA.

A person who did a lot of research on it says that more gaba will signal the brain to create new gaba a receptors..

 

It doesn't make sense to me that that would occur.  That kind of response occurs for food (more enzymes are produced), but that's a quick response to take advantage of available food.  I see GABA/GABAA more like capsaicin/TRPV1.  People who eat a lot of hot foods experience less pain than people who don't because they kill off some their TRPV1 (heat) receptors.  If they made more, the food would be unbearably hot.  That's a slow response - takes months to years.  Probably also takes months to years to reverse. 

 

Since more GABA correlates with more calm and more GABAA correlates with more calm, if people who make more GABA would make more GABAA, they'd become...  I dunno??  Nirvana.  The Buddha??  or maybe really messed up???

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I figure anything that raises GABA is likely to decrease GABAA.

A person who did a lot of research on it says that more gaba will signal the brain to create new gaba a receptors..

 

It doesn't make sense to me that that would occur.  That kind of response occurs for food (more enzymes are produced), but that's a quick response to take advantage of available food.  I see GABA/GABAA more like capsaicin/TRPV1.  People who eat a lot of hot foods experience less pain than people who don't because they kill off some their TRPV1 (heat) receptors.  If they made more, the food would be unbearably hot.  That's a slow response - takes months to years.  Probably also takes months to years to reverse. 

 

Since more GABA correlates with more calm and more GABAA correlates with more calm, if people who make more GABA would make more GABAA, they'd become...  I dunno??  Nirvana.  The Buddha??  or maybe really messed up???

 

The gaba is not what actually makes you relax. When gaba interacts with the gaba receptor, it facilitates the opening of a channel to release chloride ions, and they make you relax. Its more like a door that opens and shuts, and gaba allows it to open briefly. What Benzo's do is they make the door open wider and stronger. Barbituates are like a wrench that holds the door open. Your body receives all sorts of levels of gaba depending on what your doing and the situation. There's no reason to downregulate or upregulate. Outside events/triggers/etc cause these levels to go up and down. There is no reason for the receptor to downregulate, its like saying if you run alot and get endorphin rushes, then your endorphin receptors (opiod system) would downregulate, yet that doesnt happen. We don't see runners in endorphin withdrawal, a whole host of systems in the body work this way.

 

Your body downregulates the receptor when it notices something, and that is, way too much chlorine is coming through because benzo's artificially change the way the door opens and closes. To compensate, your body shut down the "un-needed' receptors. When you stop taking benzo's, it takes a long time for your body to realize and upregulate it. The way to artificially upregulate it is to again do the reverse and have something reverse modulate and more when the gaba hits the receptor the door doesn't open as much. Some people on this forum had great success with gingko biloba and flumazenil a quick search can find you more info...

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[ae...]

I figure anything that raises GABA is likely to decrease GABAA.

A person who did a lot of research on it says that more gaba will signal the brain to create new gaba a receptors..

 

It doesn't make sense to me that that would occur.  That kind of response occurs for food (more enzymes are produced), but that's a quick response to take advantage of available food.  I see GABA/GABAA more like capsaicin/TRPV1.  People who eat a lot of hot foods experience less pain than people who don't because they kill off some their TRPV1 (heat) receptors.  If they made more, the food would be unbearably hot.  That's a slow response - takes months to years.  Probably also takes months to years to reverse. 

 

Since more GABA correlates with more calm and more GABAA correlates with more calm, if people who make more GABA would make more GABAA, they'd become...  I dunno??  Nirvana.  The Buddha??  or maybe really messed up???

 

The gaba is not what actually makes you relax. When gaba interacts with the gaba receptor, it facilitates the opening of a channel to release chloride ions, and they make you relax. Its more like a door that opens and shuts, and gaba allows it to open briefly. What Benzo's do is they make the door open wider and stronger. Barbituates are like a wrench that holds the door open. Your body receives all sorts of levels of gaba depending on what your doing and the situation. There's no reason to downregulate or upregulate. Outside events/triggers/etc cause these levels to go up and down. There is no reason for the receptor to downregulate, its like saying if you run alot and get endorphin rushes, then your endorphin receptors (opiod system) would downregulate, yet that doesnt happen. We don't see runners in endorphin withdrawal, a whole host of systems in the body work this way.

 

Your body downregulates the receptor when it notices something, and that is, way too much chlorine is coming through because benzo's artificially change the way the door opens and closes. To compensate, your body shut down the "un-needed' receptors. When you stop taking benzo's, it takes a long time for your body to realize and upregulate it. The way to artificially upregulate it is to again do the reverse and have something reverse modulate and more when the gaba hits the receptor the door doesn't open as much. Some people on this forum had great success with gingko biloba and flumazenil a quick search can find you more info...

 

That's a better mechanistic description.  GABA 'opens' those channels in a dose-responsive manner, so more GABA means more ion mean more calm (or whatever).  And if the body somehow doesn't like that additional effect, it will down-regulate the receptor by one of several mechanisms.  Again, I couldn't see how more GABA in the system would up-regulate the receptor. 

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I figure anything that raises GABA is likely to decrease GABAA.

A person who did a lot of research on it says that more gaba will signal the brain to create new gaba a receptors..

 

It doesn't make sense to me that that would occur.  That kind of response occurs for food (more enzymes are produced), but that's a quick response to take advantage of available food.  I see GABA/GABAA more like capsaicin/TRPV1.  People who eat a lot of hot foods experience less pain than people who don't because they kill off some their TRPV1 (heat) receptors.  If they made more, the food would be unbearably hot.  That's a slow response - takes months to years.  Probably also takes months to years to reverse. 

 

Since more GABA correlates with more calm and more GABAA correlates with more calm, if people who make more GABA would make more GABAA, they'd become...  I dunno??  Nirvana.  The Buddha??  or maybe really messed up???

 

The gaba is not what actually makes you relax. When gaba interacts with the gaba receptor, it facilitates the opening of a channel to release chloride ions, and they make you relax. Its more like a door that opens and shuts, and gaba allows it to open briefly. What Benzo's do is they make the door open wider and stronger. Barbituates are like a wrench that holds the door open. Your body receives all sorts of levels of gaba depending on what your doing and the situation. There's no reason to downregulate or upregulate. Outside events/triggers/etc cause these levels to go up and down. There is no reason for the receptor to downregulate, its like saying if you run alot and get endorphin rushes, then your endorphin receptors (opiod system) would downregulate, yet that doesnt happen. We don't see runners in endorphin withdrawal, a whole host of systems in the body work this way.

 

Your body downregulates the receptor when it notices something, and that is, way too much chlorine is coming through because benzo's artificially change the way the door opens and closes. To compensate, your body shut down the "un-needed' receptors. When you stop taking benzo's, it takes a long time for your body to realize and upregulate it. The way to artificially upregulate it is to again do the reverse and have something reverse modulate and more when the gaba hits the receptor the door doesn't open as much. Some people on this forum had great success with gingko biloba and flumazenil a quick search can find you more info...

 

That's a better mechanistic description.  GABA 'opens' those channels in a dose-responsive manner, so more GABA means more ion mean more calm (or whatever).  And if the body somehow doesn't like that additional effect, it will down-regulate the receptor by one of several mechanisms.  Again, I couldn't see how more GABA in the system would up-regulate the receptor.

More gaba would lead to new gaba a receptor growth according to this person.

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I don’t understand that. Would think it would be the opposite?

 

Having more gaba doesn't affect number of gaba receptors, as such, then patients who are on antiepilepsy medication would go through benzo w/d all the time.

Not all antiepilepsy medications are benzos.

 

Thats point i'm making, most anti-convulsants increase gaba, but they don't increase gaba receptor growth. I took lyrica and gabapentin and had major relief from benzo withdrawal (lyrica worked better), depakote, lamictal, topirimate, and rest of them are not benzo based (they work in various ways), but none of them have benzo w/d after taking them, even though they increase gaba. Increasing gaba does not cause gaba receptor downregulation. Changing the way gaba receptors react to gaba (as benzo's do) causes the change in receptor function, as higher and lower levels of gaba are normal....

 

All of those meds (make my symptoms worse. They make all muscles collapse and spasm, sweating, heat along spine, head fizzing, worse strobing in vision, worse terror of sounds, hallucinatory overlay with creepy terror, worse frenzied eating etc.

 

Gabapentin also caused suicidal depression.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Drinking beverages containing copious amounts of caffeine can increase density of cortical benzodiazepine-binding sites associated with GABAA in human brain.

"The density of cortical benzodiazepine-binding sites associated with GABAA receptors is increased by 65%, "

 

 

#1  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3437321/

 

#2  https://lifehacker.com/what-caffeine-actually-does-to-your-brain-5585217

 

I drink 12 shots of espresso per day now (about 35 cups of coffee) These plugs up the limited sites that benzo's and Gaba can occupy.  (I got used to a life with very little sleep and that's OK.  4  hours of sleep per night is all I need now)

Of coarse in the morning I am crawling towards the espresso machine with one eye open, but after the first 2 cups I am ready to hit the books running  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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Yeah but is that a good thing or a bad thing, Bird?  Even a couple sips of caffeine sends me off in a panic.

Me too, The first 3 months of slamming coffee was hard but my brain,,, finally got better.  Things got even better when I set my bed time back 4 hours officially. I sleep from 3am to 7am and am at work by 8am (with a BIG cup of strong coffee in hand)

No pain, no gain.

(Keep in mind there is about 8 religious groups and other 'cults' that this info will offend so watch for it. This site is loaded with people that have "agenda's".) You will never know the truth until you try new things.  Coffee is something that 1.2 Billion people can't be wrong about, they drink it every morning world-wide. ;D

 

 

#1  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3437321/

 

#2  https://lifehacker.com/what-caffeine-actually-does-to-your-brain-5585217

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I used to drink it every morning too, Bird.  Back before withdrawal.  So you experience no anxiety now when you have your espressos?  Was anxiety a main symptom for you before?

 

4 hours of sleep is a very low amount. 

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I used to drink it every morning too, Bird.  Back before withdrawal.  So you experience no anxiety now when you have your espressos?  Was anxiety a main symptom for you before?

 

4 hours of sleep is a very low amount.

Not being able to sleep is how I got started.  I was railroaded into believing all normal people needed 8 hours a night of sleep.  I am hear to tell you it is not the case.  Both Bill Clinton and Trump are well known for only sleeping 5 to 6 hours per night all of their adult life's, Google it!  I need even less.  4 hours of resting-flat watching TV and 4 hours of actual sleep is all I need.  Laying in bed with my eyes wide open for 240 minutes a night was the REAL nightmare for me!  I'd rather be catching up on my favorite TV shows displacing all of that wasted "TOSSING & TURING" time.  If only I would have given into my natural biology NOT TO SLEEP SO MUCH in the very beginning I could have avoided "The benzo hell years" altogether. 

I stopped fighting my biology like Clinton and Trump did and am better for it.

What's that famous saying,,,

"You can lead a person to bed but you can't make her sleep"  :laugh:

 

P.S. Coffee does repair benzo brain, that's just my personal opinion of-coarse and its no short-cut, more like a long-cut requiring a year or so of up dosing to the "2 pot per day" level slowly.

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[ae...]

I've shared that Shi et al. caffeine paper several times on the forum.  I also drank coffee during my withdrawal, but usually just one double-shot vanilla soy latte in the morning, so about 150 mg of caffeine.  Never more than two for the day.

 

Don't overlook adenosine receptors.  They were heavily implicated in a recent paper that tried to address benzo tolerance.  Caffeine also has an effect on those receptors.

 

https://www.dovepress.com/valium-without-dependence-individual-gabaa-receptor-subtype-contributi-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-NDT

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I've shared that Shi et al. caffeine paper several times on the forum.  I also drank coffee during my withdrawal, but usually just one double-shot vanilla soy latte in the morning, so about 150 mg of caffeine.  Never more than two for the day.

 

Don't overlook adenosine receptors.  They were heavily implicated in a recent paper that tried to address benzo tolerance.  Caffeine also has an effect on those receptors.

 

https://www.dovepress.com/valium-without-dependence-individual-gabaa-receptor-subtype-contributi-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-NDT

Hi bads ;D!  Its been a while and I hope your doing well.  Your 100% correct about adenosine receptors, benzo's and caffeine too.  I used to have links to that topic too but lost them in a computer purge. 

Never trust cheap USB drives with 8 bits per every 1 actual bit compression schemes :o

Take care old friend :smitten:

Lisa :-*

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[ae...]

So coffee reduces tolerance?

 

I'm definitely not comfortable making that statement, but I think there's at least some support for caffeine nudging receptor density in the right direction.  How far it nudges is anybody's guess, and whether that results in a beneficial reduction in tolerance or dependence is anybody's guess.

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I'm super intrigued by the whole caffeine thing...but I still struggle with cortisol surges in the morning and am told that coffee can negatively affect the adrenals....which mine are obviously out of whack still.  :(

 

I miss coffee so bad.

 

thoughts on this?

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[ae...]

I would not start a new supplement (caffeine) based on two or three testimonials and a rat paper.  I think it's interesting to speculate about this stuff, but there's not enough data out there to really promote it.  Also, there are lots of people who will swear that caffeine rev's them up pretty bad.

 

I didn't drink coffee because of that paper.  I drank coffee because I wanted to.

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