Am I going wrong somewhere?

Firstly, apologies if I've asked any of this before. My brain really isn't working too well at the moment.

 

I'm currently doing a daily water taper from 3mg lorazepam. My method is crushing the 3 tablets in a pestle and mortar, adding to 300ml water, removing daily amount (1.5ml per day) and then distributing between 3 containers for my daily dosing.

 

I'm only just down to 2.76 after 3 weeks. Have had to hold once or twice. But the past few days I feel horrendous. Anxiety, aching, pressure, stomach problems and more.

 

Was I wrong thinking that reducing small amounts daily was going to make it a really smooth ride. I thought I'd only get these really harsh symptoms with larger cut and hold methods. Is it OK to use water? Should I be using something else? Am I going wrong anywhere that you can see?

 

Many thanks

Xxx

Lorazepam isn't soluble in water.

 

People doing liquid tapers usually dissolve the pill in a small amount of alcohol (vodka or stronger) then dilute into water.  The drug dissolves in the alcohol, then forms a suspension when diluted.  When the pill is added directly to water the drug never goes into solution.  It's probably sitting on the bottom or the sides of the container since the drug would prefer to associate with the glass or plastic rather than the water.  It's much like trying to mix oil and vinegar in a salad dressing.  The drug prefers oil type environments and really doesn't like water.

 

Propylene glycol can be used instead of alcohol.  Again, just a few ml is used then it's diluted into a larger volume of water before ingestion.

Can you take your 2mg in pill form and the other 0.76 in liquid form? I just mention that because if you have issues with your liquid, then you can at least have part of your dose in its original FDA-approved form.

 

As badsocref said, look at what kind of solution you're making.

 

Good luck!

Thanks for both your inputs. Im unsure how I would spread my doses evenly over the day if I were to take my 2 pills in pill form and the rest in liquid form. I currently dose evenlyb3 times per day.

 

Its all so confusing, x

Since you want to dose 3x a day, I honestly think you'd be better off weighing pill fragments instead of continuing with a water titration.  A decent scale costs only $22.

I'm sorry, I missed the part that you were dosing 3x a day. I didn't read carefully enough.

 

Hope you get some good advice here and good luck!

Hello, WorkingdortheFuture.  I’m sorry you’ve hit a rough patch.  You have reduced your dose by 8% over 3 weeks which is in keeping with the BenzoBuddies taper rate guidelines. However, you had to hold and recently experienced an uptick in withdrawal symptoms, so you are wise to review your tapering strategy.

 

Re: your question about daily reductions, have you read the Titration: FAQs?

 

Re: your question about using water, according to the Merck Index, lorazepam has an aqueous solubility of 0.08mg/mL. This means that, under laboratory conditions, 1mL of water will dissolve 0.08mg of pure lorazepam powder (i.e. the active drug substance).

 

The homebrew liquid you are making uses 3mg of regular lorazepam tablets (the active drug substance mixed with other ingredients) in 300mL of water for a hypothetical concentration of 0.01mg/mL. (Per the Titration: FAQs, we don’t know the properties, concentrations, or stability of any of the homebrew liquids because, to our knowledge, none of them have been analyzed.)

 

Here are some questions for your consideration:

 

(1) How did you switch to the homebrew liquid?  Did you do it all at once or in stages? 

 

(2) Did you begin reducing your dose immediately after you switched to the homebrew liquid or did you give your body time to adjust to the new format before making reductions?

 

(3) When you prepare and use your homebrew liquid, do you account for possible drug loss due to surface transfer?  Specifically, after you grind up your regular tablets using the mortar and pestle, do you rinse both of these tools with water and then include that water in the container you use to prepare your liquid? Do you use glass versus plastic containers? After you divide your dose, do you rinse the container you used to prepare your total dose and then drink the rinse water?  After you ingest each of your daily doses, do you rinse the container and then drink the rinse water?

 

(4) Do you treat your homebrew liquid as a suspension? (For example, shake it vigorously before you measure your reduction as quickly as possible.)

 

(5) Would slowing down your taper rate help? Would using a different taper schedule help?

 

(6) Would using a different drug source or combination of sources help? (For example, in the US, options include 0.5mg dose tablets, an FDA-approved oral solution, and a stability-tested compounded oral suspension.)

 

In closing, below is a link to a video about water titration.  The video features Jocelyn Pedersen, a benzodiazepine survivor and member of the Advisory Board of the Alliance for Benzodiazepine Best Practices.  The procedure Jocelyn demonstrates minimizes drug loss due to surface transfer by (a) using glass containers, (b) disintegrating a regular tablet in the preparation container vs using a mortar and pestle, and © rinsing the preparation and dose containers with water after use and then drinking the rinse water.

 

Use water to taper your benzo!

Thanks for your reply.

 

In answer to your questions. I do absolutely everything by the book. How the video plays out. The next step is to slow down the taper. That's the only viable option I have left I think. Apart from changing up the drug source which I'm not entirely sure how id do that on my taper, dosing 3 times per day.

 

I've been holding on my dose since Sunday.... Its now Friday. Which seems ridiculous. I didn't think holding this long on a daily micro taper was the norm. Should I wait longer to stabalise or make the next reduction regardless?