Long protracted

I have noticed a lot of people MANY years off benzos have not healed and are suffering terribly.  I feel very bad for them however there is something I have seen a few times now which really annoys me. 

 

People often forget to mention they are on another drug, have taken many supplements, have bad gut health, smoking, antibiotics, or drinking alcohol and caffeine occasionally, etc.

 

Many times I have seen people suffering horribly years and year out and then I find out they are taking antibiotics, supplements, or have just come off another drug, etc when the whole time they have been saying that they don't take anything or do anything. 

 

Just recently I spoke with a buddy who said he has had 7 rounds of antibiotics and a few of them being fluoroquinolone.

 

Another buddy is adamant about how he never tried any supplements but then makes another username or posts on youtube or Facebook and says he's taking supplements right now and has spent over $200 on supplements and nothing works. 

 

Also, many people report having been diagnosed with herpetic viruses, Lyme, EBV, babesia, etc but still blame benzos 10 years later.

 

You always have to optimistic when people post many years off and have not healed.

 

I am not saying this is the case for everyone.  It just makes you wonder.  This post isn't to offend anyone just sharing my observations etc.

How could the first guy miss the memo about fluoroquinolone antibiotics for so many years?

 

I’m not sure I buy into the whole virus diagnosis being a new or underlying cause. If in another 2 or 3 years I don’t heal or get better and I go get tests and get tested positive for a virus, that doesn’t make all of these symptoms I’ve had since jump that never went away = virus.

 

I’m also doubtful of supplements being able to cause chronic harm to the point of preventing recovery.

 

 

But I do believe that being chronically ill for so long can lead to other health problems, make it more susceptible to infections, etc. if I start getting weird viruses and infections...the original cause is STILL my decreased immunity from lack of sleep and being bedridden from original benzo damage.

How could the first guy miss the memo about fluoroquinolone antibiotics for so many years?

 

I’m not sure I buy into the whole virus diagnosis being a new or underlying cause. If in another 2 or 3 years I don’t heal or get better and I go get tests and get tested positive for a virus, that doesn’t make all of these symptoms I’ve had since jump that never went away = virus.

 

I’m also doubtful of supplements being able to cause chronic harm to the point of preventing recovery.

 

 

But I do believe that being chronically ill for so long can lead to other health problems, make it more susceptible to infections, etc. if I start getting weird viruses and infections...the original cause is STILL my decreased immunity from lack of sleep and being bedridden from original benzo damage.

 

@Ptsdmiracle

 

Chronic stress can cause underlying diseases etc to become active that were once dormant.  Many people have reported setbacks from taking supplements, those that continue to use them are continuously setting themselves back.  Same with drinking caffeine and sugar all day. You won't heal. 

 

If I'm still this bad 6 years from now then I probably have really shitty genetics. lol

@Ptsdmiracle

 

Chronic stress can cause underlying diseases etc to become active that were once dormant.  Many people have reported setbacks from taking supplements, those that continue to use them are continuously setting themselves back.  Same with drinking caffeine and sugar all day. You won't heal. 

 

If I'm still this bad 6 years from now then I probably have really shitty genetics. lol

 

Why do you think healing won't happen if you consume sugar? Are you talking about refined sugar only or also the sugars that occur naturally in fruit?

I’m one of the protracted ones you may be referring to in your post.

 

The one over riding factor that can make symptoms persist, or return after years of feeling better is stress in some form. This has been my experience.

 

I agree that alcohol, cannabis, and other supplements can flare symptoms. This has happened to me as well in the past.

 

That being said, I am almost fully functional at this stage (12 years out) with a few lingering symptoms.

I’m one of the protracted ones you may be referring to in your post.

 

The one over riding factor that can make symptoms persist, or return after years of feeling better is stress in some form. This has been my experience.

 

I agree that alcohol, cannabis, and other supplements can flare symptoms. This has happened to me as well in the past.

 

That being said, I am almost fully functional at this stage (12 years out) with a few lingering symptoms.

 

What’s left?

Anxiety, mild depression, sensitivity to stress, pulsatile tinnitus.

This post is depressing 12 years out and still not fully healed make me wonder if i will ever heal from this horrible affliction personally i have lost faith in my body to recover from this horrible curse every day i curse the "friend" who gave me klonopin he is long time dead he gave me the pill that destroyed my life i hope he is rutting in hell

Maybe everyone here talking "about that person" should ask that person?

 

So many posts about protracted members. Ask us. And be surprised. Thanks.

I have noticed a lot of people MANY years off benzos have not healed and are suffering terribly.  I feel very bad for them however there is something I have seen a few times now which really annoys me. 

 

People often forget to mention they are on another drug, have taken many supplements, have bad gut health, smoking, antibiotics, or drinking alcohol and caffeine occasionally, etc.

 

Many times I have seen people suffering horribly years and year out and then I find out they are taking antibiotics, supplements, or have just come off another drug, etc when the whole time they have been saying that they don't take anything or do anything. 

 

Just recently I spoke with a buddy who said he has had 7 rounds of antibiotics and a few of them being fluoroquinolone.

 

Another buddy is adamant about how he never tried any supplements but then makes another username or posts on youtube or Facebook and says he's taking supplements right now and has spent over $200 on supplements and nothing works. 

 

Also, many people report having been diagnosed with herpetic viruses, Lyme, EBV, babesia, etc but still blame benzos 10 years later.

 

You always have to optimistic when people post many years off and have not healed.

 

I am not saying this is the case for everyone.  It just makes you wonder.  This post isn't to offend anyone just sharing my observations etc.

 

Yup, some people blame the benzo's for everything bad in their life's. I have seen it too.

On the other hand healing times can be notoriously slow especially for those people who did the faster tapers which can do nasty things to brain tissue.

I felt fine with caffeine, sugar, supplements, antibiotics, could eat anything I wanted to, you name it, before I got off the pills.  So why would they be responsible for a person not healing? 

Unfortunately, because benzos are so unpredictable and do not necessarily follow any logical reasoning, people who are in protracted withdrawal are not suffering through any fault of their own. I know people on here who took their benzo as prescribed for less than two months, and suffer more than I do, a person who abused benzos for like an 8 month period. It is untrue to say that only fast tapers or cold turkeys have the worst symptoms and are in protracted withdrawal. Yes, the risks for those two groups is higher, but it does not mean that 100 percent of the time those two groups are going to suffer immensely or long term. Sugar may alleviate symptoms, but eating badly doesn't stop healing. Caffeine is only advised against because it causes cortisol surges and panic attacks. According to the Ashton manual, if caffeine is not causing a reaction, then there is no reason to stop. Stopping caffeine may even put more stress on the body. What people can agree on is that there is no cure for recovery other than time. Recovery takes time. Someone in protracted may not be doing anything to prevent healing. With benzos, nothing really makes sense in terms of suffering and for how long. I can assure you that these people do not like to be sick, don't blame others for their problems, and aren't doing something wrong. I do agree that kindling and having setbacks will prolong healing. As for underlying diseases, well most doctors do not believe in benzo withdrawal and will go as far as to say that once the benzo leaves the blood stream, everything should be fine. When someone is feeling ill after years of quitting benzos, it is not unusual for a doctor to diagnose them with an autoimmune disease. I have a friend who was diagnosed with lyme, a disease that attacks the nervous system,and her symptoms look identical to someone suffering benzo withdrawal. The tests for autoimmune diseases aren't a definite "Yes, you have this." It is based on meeting criteria, so it is possible that the someone post withdrawal doesn't really have an underlying disease. The gut issues could have been a result of benzos considering there are GABA receptors in our gut and the majority of our nerves are there.

 

Anyways, the point of the post is that being in withdrawal for many years is not always the fault of the person. In fact, they are not in withdrawals; they have been injured by benzos and that is a real thing.

Totally agree.

What annoys me here on the board is what a hellish burden protracted members have to carry on top.

People like the original poster here use them for a) being an example for their theory that there is NO healing, or b) being a proof that a fast taper or CT leads to endless suffering or finally, c) not being HONEST about all the meds they took.

 

Sorry, but here are members who are suffering from protracted withdrawal from 2 until over 12 years.

Do they have to provide a list of meds they had to take in this decade or period of time?

I had to take antiobiticx, pain killers, had surgery so I got opioids for 2 days, I had to take antihistamines..

 

Really, people sometimes I totally understand that people who have spend some years here on the board, just leave because of these topics.

And in the end, look what perth does, after she has created one post after the other like this one, just going on like that with the "I will leave bb now cause I will never heal"-topic.

 

Great.

 

The last thing that should happen here is that we get into a position where we have defend ourselves for having taken a benzo or other meds.

Really, lately I get so angry around here.

I would highly appreciate it not to talk ABOUT people but ask them directly instead. I dont know for example which member was referred to who took the antibiotics, but I am sure there was a reason for that and it is NOT correct in my opinion, to blame him or her and say "oh, okey then THAT is the reason you dont heal".

 

Everyone here who opens the mouth and has just made some months into withdrawal, - just think twice before you blame people who have been fighting for so much longer than you are.

Marigold1, I think that your response is thorough and should definitely be taken with great consideration; you offer so much truth. I really believe that the reason some people want to blame the victim of benzos is because of fear. We want to believe that doctors can fix everything, that a doctor out there knows EXACTLY what is wrong with our bodies and how to fix it, that SURELY a doctor wasn't my drug dealer and prescribed a harmful substance that can possibly injure me. We want to believe that we are entitled to healing and so we start lashing out and finding reasons for why people don't heal. No one in this situation should do that. Doctors do that. As you mentioned, if you have been injured and are experiencing symptoms long term, there is really no way you can simply never put certain things in your system again because life happens. I also don't use the word withdrawals because once the dependency is over, we're left with symptoms caused by injury to the nervous system. Truth be told, doctors do not know all that much about the nervous system. I read somewhere that it is a specialization that has been taken for granted for awhile and the research is not as abundant as other areas of medicine. Think about it: if doctors knew about the nervous system why give someone a daily pill to alter their GABA? Now that I understand what GABA is, I think that is the silliest thing.

 

This website in my opinion is the the best thing I have encountered throughout this experience. I have heard people who have healed say, "stay away from all benzo related boards. They'll scare you. You'll heal. Blah, Blah, Blah." Again, this a statement from people who HAVE healed, so we all want to believe that we will heal; we just need to behave ourselves and not look at scary posts. I use these boards to fight back what has happened. It happened and I can't take it back. You can't fight something that you don't know how it operates. A lot of members on here have done so much research. I know from looking through these boards what I should stay away from if I can manage. I learn how to continue living even with the pain. I learn to be thankful for every little improvement and the pain that I do not have. I discovered Jordan Peterson and his lectures have given me some hope and optimism. And throughout this experience, I hope to not considered myself "less than before" but to learn something from it. I hope to come through more empathetic of people, to listen to people, to not allow my own fears and insecurities to make me arrogant and judgmental of others.

 

 

Also, in case anyone is reading these posts wondering how I got into Ambien abuse, let me tell you. I take FULL responsibility for my abuse. I should have been smarter. I went to a therapist to get my anxiety under control and was directed to a psych who suggested Lamictal. I was very nervous and expressed fear of taking medication. I was told not to worry. If I didn't like it, I could stop and the drug would be out of my system in about a week. Then, I was prescribed Buspar. I was told it was completely harmless and I could take up to three a day. Give it two weeks to help with anxiety. Whelp, after a week of Buspar and three months of Lamictal, all hell broke loose. I was so sick and was told by my psych, therapist, and everyone else that I was not suffering from withdrawals as the drugs were already out of my system. I was prescribed Ambien to help me sleep at night, and I noticed that the Ambien cleared up ALL symptoms. After a couple of months on Ambien, tolerance ensued, and I unbeknownst to me, I was suffering interdose withdrawals which could only be relieved with more Ambien.

Totally agree.

What annoys me here on the board is what a hellish burden protracted members have to carry on top.

People like the original poster here use them for a) being an example for their theory that there is NO healing, or b) being a proof that a fast taper or CT leads to endless suffering or finally, c) not being HONEST about all the meds they took.

 

Sorry, but here are members who are suffering from protracted withdrawal from 2 until over 12 years.

Do they have to provide a list of meds they had to take in this decade or period of time?

I had to take antiobiticx, pain killers, had surgery so I got opioids for 2 days, I had to take antihistamines..

 

Really, people sometimes I totally understand that people who have spend some years here on the board, just leave because of these topics.

And in the end, look what perth does, after she has created one post after the other like this one, just going on like that with the "I will leave bb now cause I will never heal"-topic.

 

Great.

 

The last thing that should happen here is that we get into a position where we have defend ourselves for having taken a benzo or other meds.

Really, lately I get so angry around here.

I would highly appreciate it not to talk ABOUT people but ask them directly instead. I dont know for example which member was referred to who took the antibiotics, but I am sure there was a reason for that and it is NOT correct in my opinion, to blame him or her and say "oh, okey then THAT is the reason you dont heal".

 

Everyone here who opens the mouth and has just made some months into withdrawal, - just think twice before you blame people who have been fighting for so much longer than you are.

 

If you go back and re read my original post you will see it says "I am not saying this is the case for everyone.  It just makes you wonder.  This post isn't to offend anyone just sharing my observations etc".

 

Antibiotics and alcohol are two of the biggest setbacks in this.  Just do a simple search and you will see.  When I'm looking through protracted memembers profiles and it states they are 10 years off but occasionally drink whisky to numb the pain and then complain why they aren't healed.  Um really?  I know a buddy who was pretty much healed and drank and is now back to the beginning.  I've just read a post of someone who said they are back in worse than acute from 1 dose of antibiotic.  Yes some people can take these things but others cannot. Yes as someone who is newly protrated and suffering horrifically my OCD looks for reasons why these people are so far off and not healed yet.  Most people think like this but don't talk about it. The guy who keeps taking antibiotics said he was taking fluoroquinolones (seemingly unknowingly) and is essentially floxing himself.

 

If you claim to be anywhere near as near as bad as me you would know how the OCD and tormented mind work and I am reaching out in every possible way I can even if that means posting the same thing over and over again.

 

I repeat. I am not saying this is the case for everyone.  It just makes you wonder.  This post isn't to offend anyone just sharing my observations etc.

You can’t blame ppl if they have to take antibiotics for an infection.

Sometimes there is no other option.

Ppl die from bacterial infections.

Perth, I understand what you are saying. Please do not think that no one wants you to vent. That is part of what makes these boards great to those suffering. I am not a doctor and just started researching all of this like 2 months ago..so take what I say with a grain of salt, BUT I do not believe that you are protracted; I think that you have been polydrugged. I can see a difference in the types of symptoms I have now versus the symptoms I had when I was being drugged. I do not have advice for how to come off the other medications. But, you are probably not protracted. You might just be adding fuel to the fire due to medications. Also, cigarette withdrawal put additional stress on the body. Also, I do not believe that you're brain is fried. It seems that the brain is very capable of being resilient. Your young age may even play a factor in your healing.

Perth. Please. Stop.

Perth. Please. Stop.

 

I'm leaving.  There is nothing good about this website.  Just keeps reminding people of their symptoms and how sick they are.  How are you supposed to heal from something if you remind yourself 24/7 about it?  Peace everyone.

At one time this sort of thread would have probably upset me, but not any more.  It is over 7 years for me.  There are complicating factors in my case I feel which I have always been open about.  Past medical history, original diagnosis, 40 years on drugs etc.  I am lucky, I don't react badly to supplements, many report adverse effects, sometimes severe.  I also don't[ have  a problem with food, seems to have no adverse effects.  I tried homeopathic remedies and supplements, they did not have any negative effects, also not sure if they helped either.  When sick for this long, other prescribed medication may be necessary, other health problems may arise.  What other people do does not really matter, focus on your own recovery, and do what you think is right for you.  It is a very long haul when protracted.  What did set me back was exercise, it caused a severe reaction in my brain, and was disastrous for me, this does not mean it would be a problem for others,  this is not a straightforward process, far from it, it is what it is.  We have to deal with it as best we can.  It is essentially a brain injury and the brain can take a long time to recover, I still see improvements now but am not recovered.  Many people are more fortunate and recover more quickly.

Fiona, I agree with you.  Every person's case is different.  I believe the reason some people are worse off than others is genetics.  Why can some people be on benzo's for decades and get off without a hitch and feel fine while others who only take them for a few weeks or so suffer horribly for a very long time? 

Fiona, I agree with you.  Every person's case is different.  I believe the reason some people are worse off than others is genetics.  Why can some people be on benzo's for decades and get off without a hitch and feel fine while others who only take them for a few weeks or so suffer horribly for a very long time?

 

You may be right, I know people can come off after 40 years and not suffer as I have done, and others have suffered terribly like me, I don't know many of course who were on that length of time, only a handful really.  So there is more to it than the length of time on the drugs.