Advice kindly required for high dose taper

Hey guys,

It’s been a while, I hope everyone is doing okay, especially during these crazy times.

As you can see from my signature, in 2018 I did a taper through my GP and eventually made the jump in November 2018. Sadly due to work pressures I relapsed in January 2019. My daily dose started small, but gradually increased to ridiculous levels. I was not keeping count but I worked out I was taking over 200mg diazepam equivalent daily.

So in May I decided enough was enough and I need to stabilise and begin a new taper. My daily dose was so high I didn’t feel comfortable asking my GP for help, especially considering as they’d be incredibly unlikely to prescribe that amount of diazepam to someone, who on record, was previously dependant. Leaving that aside, this is what a stabilised my daily dose to:

4mg clonazepam

4mg alprazolam

30mg diazepam

Total: 190mg diaz equivalent.

I started that taper on may 19th and this following Monday (3 days time) I’ll be down to equivalent 120mg (using 2mg clonazepam, 2mg alprazolam, 30mg diazepam). I’ve coped well so far with no severe withdrawals.

Now, I know the recommended dose reduction is 5-10% once every 10-14 days but the fact I have been coping with a faster taper I feel comfortable continuing at this rate.

Now, my question is when do I need to start slowing down that dose reduction? My plan from now is to reduce 0.5mg of alprazolam each week, then 0.5mg clonazepam until I am down to 30mg diazepam per day. Which I will then approach with 1mg weekly reductions until (hopefully) I’m down to 0mg per day. I understand proportional reduction and from experience I know it gets harder the closer you get to zero.

I’m aware in an ideal world I would slow down the taper from now, with help from my GP, but for various reasons it is not going to be possible for me to do so. It’s difficult and expensive to acquire these drugs.

So I’m just using this thread as a soundboard for any thoughts or advice anyone might have.

Thanks for listening.

Hello from a fellow illicit benzo user who also relapsed.

I'm not here to judge you.

From what I can understand from your signature, you did a quick taper, how did you feel after the jump.

I'm guessing rough, and wondering could this be a contribution to your relapse.

I'm from the UK, I was taking lots of short half life sleepers but realised I was addicted in 2016 and as I was taking different Benzes/hypnos (all GABA agonists) I started taking diazepam and increasing it until I felt stable and finally in the summer/autum of 2016, got on a legitimate prescription from my psychiatrist.

Down fro 75mg valium to 27mg now.

I cut yesterday, and roughly 15days before that by 1mg, taking it slowly.

It's good you know you need to stabilise and begin a new taper. Congratulations on getting down to 120mg equivalent.

Thank you for listing your daily stabilised dose.

Is there any way you can get on all one benzo, as different Benzes just mess with the gaba system, it would be easier for you to stick to either diazepam or clonazepam as they are easier to taper from.

You can use liquid, there is a titration section on here.

You need to be tapering (at the very most) by I would say 5% every 2 weeks, and I don't mean 5% of 120mg Diaz equivalent, I mean 5% of the previous dose.

For example 5% of 120mg is 6mg

120mg minus 6 = 114mg so your next cut would be 5% of 114mg if you choose to use diazepam.

Hope I got the calculations right, please check.

I am not encouraging the use of illicit Benzes, I have no comment on that, I just chose to go legit as I wanted to taper from a trusted source rather than illicit as the amount of benzo in illicit can change or have other stuff in.

I remember starting my taper on illicits and using milk, I used Diaz, which totally dissolves in milk yet I got one batch of illicits which didn't dissolve in milk. The box looked like a pharmaceutical box but the braille on the box was not consistent with other boxes, and I felt like I had been given etizolam.

Glad you've coped well so far, remember the lower you go the slower you go, see my calculations above. Im glad you understand this.

I see you have been comfy with a faster rate, I am just concerned as your last taper "may" have been too fast, I may be wrong if you did cope.

All I can say about slowing down the dose reduction is above but it is whatever you feel comfy with.

Being on different Benzes does make things more difficult for us though, it confuses our receptors.

Yes, acquiring illicits is difficult and expensive, also unreliable and risky.

Are you sure your GP will not prescribe you Benzes? If you decide you don't want illicits and want to go legit, would they be allowed to put you at risk.

If you are in the uk there is a really good charity called batted.org, they have a phone line for all UK users to call, they might even be international I am not sure, but they did help me.

Hello from a fellow illicit benzo user who also relapsed.

 

I'm not here to judge you.

 

Hello mate, thanks so much for taking the time to respond, really appreciate it. I'm from the UK also

 

 

From what I can understand from your signature, you did a quick taper, how did you feel after the jump.

 

I'm guessing rough, and wondering could this be a contribution to your relapse.

 

To be honest, I felt it was a long taper. It lasted roughly 8 months and it was "only" from 20mg. But yes, I didn't feel great but I was coping okay. The main contribution was my line of work is incredibly stressful, 2 months after I made the jump I had to go overseas for 5 weeks to manage an event (I work as an events co-ordinator). Honestly, the stresses attributed to that role are gargantuous. It really isn't a job for an anxious person like myself, but that's another story! FWIW I used a EU research chemical retailer to purchase a shedload of etizolam and had them delivered to my hotel. (totally legal in the country I was in).

 

 

I'm from the UK, I was taking lots of short half life sleepers but realised I was addicted in 2016 and as I was taking different Benzes/hypnos (all GABA agonists) I started taking diazepam and increasing it until I felt stable and finally in the summer/autum of 2016, got on a legitimate prescription from my psychiatrist.

Down fro 75mg valium to 27mg now.

 

I cut yesterday, and roughly 15days before that by 1mg, taking it slowly.

 

That's an incredibly slow taper, and I commend you for it because you're going to be very unlikely to relapse again once you are down to zero, which I get the impression from your post that you will no doubt achieve. Can I ask, what do you mean by psychiatrist, what's the equivalent job in the UK that gives them the authority to prescribe medicines? I'm assuming it's private, is it expensive?

 

 

 

It's good you know you need to stabilise and begin a new taper. Congratulations on getting down to 120mg equivalent.

Thank you for listing your daily stabilised dose.

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

Is there any way you can get on all one benzo, as different Benzes just mess with the gaba system, it would be easier for you to stick to either diazepam or clonazepam as they are easier to taper from.

You can use liquid, there is a titration section on here.

You need to be tapering (at the very most) by I would say 5% every 2 weeks, and I don't mean 5% of 120mg Diaz equivalent, I mean 5% of the previous dose.

For example 5% of 120mg is 6mg

120mg minus 6 = 114mg so your next cut would be 5% of 114mg if you choose to use diazepam.

Hope I got the calculations right, please check.

 

It's difficult, due to the price and what I currently have in possession. But I think cutting the alpraz out would be helpful as obviously it has the shortest half life of the 3. I wasn't aware that using different benzos simulataneously caused any significant issues with the GABA receptors. Would you be kind enough to elaborate?

 

I agree with your suggested tapering schedule, it's just bloody hard to envisage this carrying on for years. Plus the money involved.

 

 

I am not encouraging the use of illicit Benzes, I have no comment on that, I just chose to go legit as I wanted to taper from a trusted source rather than illicit as the amount of benzo in illicit can change or have other stuff in.

I remember starting my taper on illicits and using milk, I used Diaz, which totally dissolves in milk yet I got one batch of illicits which didn't dissolve in milk. The box looked like a pharmaceutical box but the braille on the box was not consistent with other boxes, and I felt like I had been given etizolam.

 

Yep, I'm totally aware of the fake benzo epidemic. Christ, when I was taking pressed Xanax bars god knows what was in them. But now, as you say, the fakes are so professional and sophistcated not even a GP wouldn't be able to tell you if a box of Actavis (for example) diazepam was real. However, I now test everything I acquire using wedinos.org, which you are probably aware of.

 

 

Glad you've coped well so far, remember the lower you go the slower you go, see my calculations above. Im glad you understand this.

 

 

 

I see you have been comfy with a faster rate, I am just concerned as your last taper "may" have been too fast, I may be wrong if you did cope.

 

All I can say about slowing down the dose reduction is above but it is whatever you feel comfy with.

Being on different Benzes does make things more difficult for us though, it confuses our receptors.

 

Thank you! As I mentioned I don't think I would've relapsed so heavily if it wasn't for my job. I need a fucking new career mate haha.

 

But yes, I will cut the alpraz out for sure, and just go with the clonazepam and diazepam for the time being. I would love to be able to get a prescriptions from a pharmacy for the amount of diaz I need every week, of course that's the best course of action, but I have to be realistic.

 

 

 

Yes, acquiring illicits is difficult and expensive, also unreliable and risky.

 

Are you sure your GP will not prescribe you Benzes? If you decide you don't want illicits and want to go legit, would they be allowed to put you at risk.

If you are in the uk there is a really good charity called batted.org, they have a phone line for all UK users to call, they might even be international I am not sure, but they did help me.

 

 

I'm not 100% sure, but I just doubt he will prescribe 120mg's worth haha. I mean, christ, you know what UK doctors are like, they are terrified of prescribing benzos these days. Saying that, the GP who managed my taper was excellent, flexible when I needed to be, and just generally understanding. BUT, that was from a starting point of 20mg. It's a big difference.

 

Thanks for the advice about batted.org, I will check that out for sure. In what ways did they help you? But I am really interested in the psychiatrist route. If you could elaborate on that it would be most appreciated. Please PM if you prefer.

 

Thanks again for taking your time to respond. I was beginng to think my thread would be left unanswered. 

 

Morning guys, any more advice on this one would be great. Down to 120mg now (4mg clonazepam + 30mg diazepam)

Cheers!