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When I tell you I feel like I’m dying, I mean it. EVERY night, I wake up between 2-4 am. EVERY NIGHT. Is this still the benzos? Does anyone else know if this can be from another medical condition? Is there something I can get tested for?  How can this still be happening at 27 months? The exhaustion is crippling me and destroys everything. Please help me.

 

If it helps, MSG kills me and makes it way worse with night sweats and akathisia.

Occasionally ibuprofen helps me.

 

I don’t know what this means, but hopefully someone smarter than me will have some ideas.

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The path to better sleep is often dependent on accepting less/worse sleep.

 

 

My sleep was much like yours (still is some nights).  It used to upset me to wake up (EVERY night) at 3 or 4 am.  The added emotion (from getting upset) only made my sleep worse.  That eventually got me started on benzos, and we all know how that ended up. 

 

During my withdrawal, I came to terms with my sleep.  I'm now (mostly) calm when I find myself awake at 3 am.  That's allowed me to eventually fall back to sleep much more often.  I no longer feel like I'm dying (I don't use negative analogies like that - they don't help).  If I have a particularly 'limited' sleeping night, I work within my abilities instead of getting angry/frustrated.

 

Your language suggests much anger/frustration with your current sleep situation.  I invite you to not bring those feelings to bed with you.

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Thanks for responding.

 

I am very calm every night before bed. I believe I will sleep every night and am pretty relaxed before bed every night. I am not bringing negative energy to bed.

 

I don’t get angry when I wake up at 3am. Of course I’m not happy either. I sigh, go downstairs, and stay calm while waiting to fall back asleep with a podcast to distract.

 

I understand that getting frustrated at my situation can lead to negative emotions. After 27 months of the same thing happening over and over, and watching my life be destroyed specifically due to it, it can be tough to not to be upset by it. Maybe I’m not strong enough and I let a little thing like my life crumbling bother me. Either way.

 

Unfortunately, the analogy of feeling like I’m dying is 100% correct.

 

The point of my post was to ask whether anyone thinks the specific situation of waking up every night between 2-4 could be due to something other than benzos. I’m sorry if my frustration at my situation is not ideal for some readers. I do everything I can on a daily basis to remind myself that this will end and I will make it through.

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I wish I knew why I wake up twice every night around the same time, it feels like my body is conditioned to do it now and it's frustrating.  I'm not in the same boat as you are, I'm recovered but I wonder if the body just gets in the habit and if so, how can we break the habit?

 

I'm know this isn't helpful but you've got me wondering how we can control something we can't seem to control.  :-\

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Thanks, Pam. I’m just wondering if it’s something other than damaged gaba receptors, you know? If it’s just waiting for gaba to regrow, that’s ok. But what if we can fix whatever mechanism is causing the wakeups? I don’t know, maybe I’m just hoping to hope.
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If you are not already familiar with the subject, try googling "sleep cycles". There is an period at the end of each sleep cycle where we wake up to some degree, but then usually drop back down into the next sleep cycle I believe that if after a few cycles some of our need for sleep has been satisfied so it can become harder to fall back into sleep. If you keep waking up at the same time try going to bed at a different time (I would vote for earlier) and see if you still wake up at the same time or after the same amount of time. Beyond that, just wait it out. 27 months may seem like a lot of time to still be experiencing sleep issues, but it is not uncommon at all.
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Thanks, aloha. Wouldn’t that just mean the wakeup would occur earlier?

 

I’m considering seeing an endocrinologist and neurologist. I’ve seen natural healers and sleep apnea doctors to no avail.

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I usually stay in bed when I wake up.  Getting up just wakes me up more.  Also - if I start to doze off again, I don't want to have to get up, go upstairs and get back in bed.  I realize that laying awake in bad is poor sleep hygiene according to the experts, but it seems to create less angst for me.  Even worse, I'll game or text or email or even do work work in bed at 4 am.  Photoshopping and web work are particularly good at boring me back to sleep.

 

I've had this sleeping pattern almost all my life.  Since March (re-retirement), I've been catching afternoon naps more often (usually after golf) to bring up my total sleep a little.  I still pretty much never sleep 8 hours in a 24-hour period.  I can probably get around 5-6 if the dog doesn't bark, and that seems to suffice.  I actually seem to do better with two sleep cycles instead of one.  I suspect biphasic sleep is probably a better option for a lot of people, but we get forced into a 7-6 work/commute regime, kids' evening commitments, etc ...

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If you are not already familiar with the subject, try googling "sleep cycles". There is an period at the end of each sleep cycle where we wake up to some degree, but then usually drop back down into the next sleep cycle I believe that if after a few cycles some of our need for sleep has been satisfied so it can become harder to fall back into sleep. If you keep waking up at the same time try going to bed at a different time (I would vote for earlier) and see if you still wake up at the same time or after the same amount of time. Beyond that, just wait it out. 27 months may seem like a lot of time to still be experiencing sleep issues, but it is not uncommon at all.

 

Thanks for this aloha.  :thumbsup:

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I'll be 4 years off of 6 months of use on August 5, 2020 and I still wake up a lot between 2:00 and 4:00 am.  As others have said, I just lay in bed and usually fall back to sleep.  Sometimes I don't and I am OK with that.  In the past I would get angry and get upset thus ensuring no more sleep.  Also, maybe stay in bed after you wake up because even if you can't sleep, your body still needs the rest.

 

I function very well on 5 - 6 hours most nights and an occasional 7 or 8 hour night mixed in.  It truly is mind over matter. 

 

Another thing that worked (but took some time to master) is going to bed with the idea you are going to just rest your body and not expect any sleep.  That way, when sleep comes, you'll be pleasantly surprised...or at least I was.

 

BTW, sleep was my worst symptom and I had about 15 other symptoms too.

 

You'll get past this, you just need to give it more time.

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Thanks, ThEwAy. You always share good sleep advice on here.

 

Unfortunately for me, I do not function well on 5-6 hours of sleep. I am crippled with sick fatigue and my mental capacity is greatly diminished because of the lack of sleep. Mind over matter is not a viable solution in my situation, but I do appreciate the benefits of a positive outlook.

 

When I initially wake up, I try to stay in bed and fall back asleep. Sometimes I do, but if I can’t I get out. I find getting out helps. I’ve read that you should leave your bed if you can’t sleep. It seems to work for me.

 

I’ve seen your posts in the past about just letting your body rest even though you aren’t sleeping, and I make sure to do that.

 

Does anybody know the scientific mechanism involved in mid-sleep awakenings? Gaba? Cortisol? Other?

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Consider seeing a therapist who does cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia (CBT-I). It really helped me a lot.
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Consider seeing a therapist who does cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia (CBT-I). It really helped me a lot.

 

Thank you! I will see if there are any in my area.

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Thanks, ThEwAy. You always share good sleep advice on here.

 

Unfortunately for me, I do not function well on 5-6 hours of sleep. I am crippled with sick fatigue and my mental capacity is greatly diminished because of the lack of sleep. Mind over matter is not a viable solution in my situation, but I do appreciate the benefits of a positive outlook.

 

When I initially wake up, I try to stay in bed and fall back asleep. Sometimes I do, but if I can’t I get out. I find getting out helps. I’ve read that you should leave your bed if you can’t sleep. It seems to work for me.

 

I’ve seen your posts in the past about just letting your body rest even though you aren’t sleeping, and I make sure to do that.

 

Does anybody know the scientific mechanism involved in mid-sleep awakenings? Gaba? Cortisol? Other?

 

That getting out of bed advice doesn't really apply to those with Benzo related insomnia.  That advice is fine for those with "regular" insomnia. 

 

If you want to know why this is happening, it has to do with your down regulated GABA and the lack of balance with Glutamate.  Both are nervous system receptors.  GABA is your body's "brake pedal" or what slows things down and makes you calm and relaxed.  Glutamate is your body's "gas pedal" or what makes you active and alert or even fight or flight.  Normally the two are in a "balancing act" so one doesn't overtake the other.  But when your GABA is temporarily taken off line by the Benzo, Glutamate rules the day and night.  That's why you might feel wired all the time, have racing thoughts and are never sleepy.  It takes some time for your body to repair the temporary damage.  No one knows how long that will be.  But your body knows exactly how to repair the damage and put your GABA and Glutamate back into balance.  However, it is a very nonlinear process...UP and DOWN, one step forward, 2 steps back for some time for most.

 

Maybe you're young and need more sleep?  I am older, almost 57, and function well on 5-6 hours although I do prefer to get a bit more when I can.

 

I would definitely look into CBT-I.

 

Good luck.

 

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Thanks, ThEwAy. I understand the basics of how it works. I don’t have racing thoughts, and don’t feel wired all the time. I feel fatigue during the day due to poor quality sleep. Could it be the glutamate waking me up every night at 3am? I’m just trying to understand why this specific thing is happening so I can possibly take steps to help myself get better sleep.

 

I absolutely need more sleep. I also need better quality sleep. Even 6 hours is not enough due to the poor quality. I cannot perform a job in my career due to the exhaustion and sleep deprivation.

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Benzo WD can give you a CFS (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) type of experience, or it's possible you may have CFS?

 

Have you had any tests done to rule out other things that could be causing your fatigue other than lack of sleep?

 

It was very common before the industrial age for almost all people to have 2 distinct sleep periods that were shorter in length...4 hours or so then an awake period for 1 to 2 hours then another 3-4 hour sleep period.

 

I used to think I felt bad because I didn't sleep, but after I changed my attitude, things slowly got better on the same amount of sleep.

 

I was getting 5-10 hours per week for months and now I get 40 - 50 hours per week on average.

 

When my body has had enough sleep, I wake up..that is usually after 6-7 hours of sleep.

 

Are you able to nap?

 

I am sorry the lack of sleep is affecting your job/career.

 

I believe it is cortisol surges waking you up at night?  That seems to happen to a lot of people recovering from Benzos.

 

Hang in there, sometimes some people just need more time for things to even out.

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Hi ,

I am not too far behind you  and as you can see in my sig I was not given this for sleep issues but I sure have them now !

  I wake up the same times as you , and I am sick from it like you are also . Its not in my head either, sometimes I am puking sick from the insomnia . I am back to working first with my own horses to TRY to see if I can take in any customers again in the near future and I am working 2-3 out here in 107 degree heat right outside of LA here ,  6-7 hours and still have a tough time , Plus I also walk 6.5 miles every single day  so I get it . Its very hard core .

 

I do the sleep hygiene now as habit , I have to have totally dark cool SILENT room , some nights I do well with ASMR in my earbuds , other nights it really irritates me . It IS frustrating I agree .

This one dr I saw told me to go to bed later , that does not work .

 

I do take 1.5 mg of melatonin  , sublingual, which helps me fall asleep but that is with all the stuff I mentioned above . If I do none of this then sleep is maybe 1-3 hours long so I have to stick to this schedule .  I must lay down and start getting quiet about 8pm and take my melatoin at 9 .  Some days I want to nap but I dont , I am afraid Ill have another horrid 0 hour night .  So you are not alone , I will be glad if or when this eases up .

I was always such a niteowl but could and WOULD sleep as long in the day as I needed too but now when the least bit of sunlight starts then thats it !

I know its frustrating and yes quite sickening , I get nauseated and a very bad headache and very spacey .

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Benzo WD can give you a CFS (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) type of experience, or it's possible you may have CFS?

 

Have you had any tests done to rule out other things that could be causing your fatigue other than lack of sleep?

 

It was very common before the industrial age for almost all people to have 2 distinct sleep periods that were shorter in length...4 hours or so then an awake period for 1 to 2 hours then another 3-4 hour sleep period.

 

I used to think I felt bad because I didn't sleep, but after I changed my attitude, things slowly got better on the same amount of sleep.

 

I was getting 5-10 hours per week for months and now I get 40 - 50 hours per week on average.

 

When my body has had enough sleep, I wake up..that is usually after 6-7 hours of sleep.

 

Are you able to nap?

 

I am sorry the lack of sleep is affecting your job/career.

 

I believe it is cortisol surges waking you up at night?  That seems to happen to a lot of people recovering from Benzos.

 

Hang in there, sometimes some people just need more time for things to even out.

 

The only thing I’ve had done is a cortisol test, which showed a really high spike in cortisol in the morning. I take a cortisol manager supplement and various vitamins that supposedly help your body regulate cortisol. I think it’s the cortisol surges. I stopped working out because I was overdoing it and may have made things worse. It’s just frustrating. Everything else is much better in the withdrawal. The mental stuff is fine. I just feel exhausted and like a haze is over me from the insomnia. What gives me hope is the few windows I have had. They always come after a solid night’s sleep and it feels AMAZING. If I could just figure out how to stop the waking up, I feel like I could heal, you know? That’s what’s so frustrating. I feel like I’ve pinpointed the cause and I need to fix it. Maybe it’s just more time....but I’m wearing thin...

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Hi ,

I am not too far behind you  and as you can see in my sig I was not given this for sleep issues but I sure have them now !

  I wake up the same times as you , and I am sick from it like you are also . Its not in my head either, sometimes I am puking sick from the insomnia . I am back to working first with my own horses to TRY to see if I can take in any customers again in the near future and I am working 2-3 out here in 107 degree heat right outside of LA here ,  6-7 hours and still have a tough time , Plus I also walk 6.5 miles every single day  so I get it . Its very hard core .

 

I do the sleep hygiene now as habit , I have to have totally dark cool SILENT room , some nights I do well with ASMR in my earbuds , other nights it really irritates me . It IS frustrating I agree .

This one dr I saw told me to go to bed later , that does not work .

 

I do take 1.5 mg of melatonin  , sublingual, which helps me fall asleep but that is with all the stuff I mentioned above . If I do none of this then sleep is maybe 1-3 hours long so I have to stick to this schedule .  I must lay down and start getting quiet about 8pm and take my melatoin at 9 .  Some days I want to nap but I dont , I am afraid Ill have another horrid 0 hour night .  So you are not alone , I will be glad if or when this eases up .

I was always such a niteowl but could and WOULD sleep as long in the day as I needed too but now when the least bit of sunlight starts then thats it !

I know its frustrating and yes quite sickening , I get nauseated and a very bad headache and very spacey .

 

Thank you! Your symptoms are mine exactly! I work outside doing hard labor. It’s very difficult due to the fatigue, but I have to work. When COVID 19 had us on lockdown, I took a month off. During that time I did a lot of resting. I would get some sun and go for a walk, then rest all day. My sleep started improving. But now that I’m working, it’s bad again. I think maybe my job is too strenuous and exacerbated my cortisol issue. If only I could take time off to rest and heal.

 

My room is very dark, cold, and comfortable. I have a noise machine, fan, great sheets, king size bed, all of it. But I can’t get past the wakeup. Frustrating to no end. I take vit C, B complex, maca, magnesium, all which are supposed to support adrenal health. I also take a cortisol manager supplement. What helps the most is taking an ibuprofen once every few weeks. For some reason it helps me sleep! I wish I knew why! Inflammation?

 

Like you, I often wake up with nausea and a headache from the lack of sleep. My legs will also be sore from not getting rest. Unbelievable.

 

Thanks for responding. It’s good to hear that I’m not the only one with this!

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Here's another thought.  Strenuous physical labor or activity can make symptoms/sleep worse for some?  I know when I tried to workout during my WD, it jacked up my symptom intensity and destroyed my sleep.  B vitamins also jacked up my symptoms and ruined my sleep.  I was forced to take walks only. 

 

Now that I am healed, physical work in hot weather conditions gives me a great night's sleep 99% of the time.  Today I can take any supplement I want and even eat msg (which I avoid because it's not healthy) without any effect on my sleep.

 

You might want to consider the idea that some of the supplements you are taking to combat cortisol might also be affecting your sleep? 

 

Some supplements work paradoxically and do the opposite of what they are supposed to do.  I was initially given Trazadone for sleep, but it actually kept me awake and that's how I ended up on Benzos.

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I think the labor is preventing me from getting good sleep, but I have no choice. It’s literally putting one foot in front of the other. I feel so horrible.

 

Not sure if it’s the supplements since they are a relatively new addition and this has been happening over 2 years.

 

I’d there a type of sleep doctor who actually knows and can help with sleep maintenance issues??? I’m trying to find one. Probably a waste of time and money though.

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Yes, sleep doctors are a waste of time and money.  I saw 2 different sleep doctors and had two sleep studies done. 

 

All they were looking for was apnea, which I don't have.

 

They offered me more Benzos or told me to try CBT-I.  They both recommended Shut-I

 

Short of finding apena or offering Rx drugs, not sure how they can help most people?

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I tend to agree. I saw one, well, a nurse at the doctor’s place, and was borderline in the apnea test which they said could be due to the margin of error. I got the machine anyway. I do t think the actual doctor even works there - just puts his name on it. Machine has not worked for me.

 

I’m wondering if there a sleep maintenance specialist. Someone who can run tests. There has to be someone, right? I’m willing to travel. But, I’m sure they won’t think benzos caused it. Very frustrating.

 

I just don’t see many people with the 4am wakeup persisting so long. I’d like to rule out anything else.

 

Btw, been up since 3:30 and suffering greatly.

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Sorry you are suffering.

 

I will be 4 years off from a CT from 6 months of use and I still wake up most nights/mornings between 2:00 and 4:00 am.

 

 

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Thanks. Our situations are still different since you feel ok on that amount. My sleep is horrid and I feel very bad when I wake up at 4. Maybe your body is doing it’s natural thing due to your age. That amount just won’t work for me. I’m going to see if I can find a doctor who specializes in sleep maintenance insomnia. I’m also going to try every holistic approach - meditation, yoga, breathing, y’all therapy, etc. I just can’t go on like this. I’m deteriorating.
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