Please help me stabilize & taper-Far to go-DR-Visual Distortions-loosing hope

If anyone can lend your thoughts & advice as to possible ways that I can stabilize out of DR & visual distortions & then taper, I'd really appreciate it. I've included links to my most recent history that may be helpful for anyone that's willing to read & help.

I think I'm going to have to use my scale to maybe stabilize & definitely to taper & im benzo brain bad at that.

But first, I think I need to stop my current sxs that have been ongoing for months. Ideas please.

 

Copy paste from other post:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=241834.msg3092242#msg3092242

 

Thanks

Scaredie

This is the last line of your signature, is it current and correct?  12/19-6/20-Xanax .25 4 times day as needed, Bed-1X 1.625K(currently, cut from 2mgK since cross)

This is the last line of your signature, is it current and correct?  12/19-6/20-Xanax .25 4 times day as needed, Bed-1X 1.625K(currently, cut from 2mgK since cross)

Yes. Thanks

 

How often is the as needed for the Xanax?

Usually every 4 hours

What I feel would be helpful is to figure out what your daily dose is, as needed doesn't work so well when we're trying to find a starting point for a taper, so can you tell me if as needed is every 4 hours and is it pretty much 1 mg Xanax and 1.625 mg Klonopin every day?

Day time

My as needed is usually every 4 hours. Sometimes the 3rd .25 dose is not taken,. I'll have to say my day dose isn't consistent on Xanax. My .25 as needed during the day is every 4 hours equaling up to 1X for the day time dose. But sometimes I'll take my first one at 4am & sometimes I'll take my first one at 8 or 9 am.(the 4am or super early doses are not my norm, though. That last happened during a caffeine wean gone wrong, where I tried to wean caffeine with pills & it through me way out of wack with ear panic waking. No more caffeine pills to wean caffeine...) And some days I'll take .75X out of those as needed doses & some days I'll take all 1X out of my .25x every fours as needed. There may be days I go longer than 4 hours, but that would typically be after the last 3rd .25 dose of the day. Oh & confession, there are rare occasions where, if I'm melting down & SI can't self sooth, Or just jump out of my skin panic anxious & I know I won't calm,  I'll add .125 onto an existing.25X dose=.375, but I'll keep the total daily dose within 1X...oh & I just remembered, I may be wrong on the 4 hours, as I noticed, I'm not sure when, but definitely after my last kpin cut, that right at 4 hours on the dot after taking my Xanax, I'll get very depressed & start crying, so starting at least a couple of weeks ago, I may have been taking some of my .25X doses @ 3.5hrs, so that it would be effective at the 4 hour mark. This kind of thing makes my head spin, so I'm not sure how long its supposed to exactly take x to kick in, if anyone else does? I used to wait to 4 hrs & beyond until the 4 hr on the dot meltdowns started happening, so I don't know if that means I'm taking it every 4 hours, if I take it every 3.5 hrs & it starts working at 4hrs? I'm also, trying to do that at 3hr & 40m or 3hr & 45m, but, admittedly havnt tracked it too well...ugh-hope that makes sense. This is good start, making me think about this more. Accountability.

Bed time

My bed time Meds are

1X & 1.625K both together Every night

 

Except..

Dont judge🤦🏻‍♀️But I must admit I have one offs sometimes where I'll add .25-.5X if I'm having severe insomnia.

The 1.625K is constant but it's a dry rough eyeball cut.

 

I don't feel any high from my meds, just relief of anxiety, panic, Agoraphobia & insomnia. But not of course total relief now, in the state I'm in.

 

Thanks

SC

 

What I feel would be helpful is to figure out what your daily dose is, as needed doesn't work so well when we're trying to find a starting point for a taper, so can you tell me if as needed is every 4 hours and is it pretty much 1 mg Xanax and 1.625 mg Klonopin every day?

Pamster,

Thank you so much for trying to help me. Super appreciated! Sorry it's a messy run on paragraph. But you did read the part where I'm having Derealization & visual distortions 24/7, too, right? Like, dont we need to find a way to settle that,(figure the cause) before I start to taper?

Gracias

SC

Hi Scardie,

 

I did read about your severe de-realization and visual distortions and I know you're suffering but for now the most important thing we need to discuss is your dosages.  Hopefully when we get that ironed out we can get you started on a taper.  Ideally we hope members can be stable when they begin their taper but for some this just doesn't happen and they realize that starting their taper is the only way to end the pain.

 

I know you're scared and I know how hard this is but taking the drug is hurting you at this point, so your only choice is to taper from it, this is the only way you're going to gain your freedom. 

 

Help me understand your exact doses now if you will, is your total daily dose typically?

 

2 mg Xanax and 1.625 Klonopin

 

It's my wish that we get you on a consistent dose each day, can you stick to taking the above dose for a few days with no rescue doses? 

 

 

 

 

Hi Scardie,

 

I did read about your severe de-realization and visual distortions and I know you're suffering but for now the most important thing we need to discuss is your dosages.  Hopefully when we get that ironed out we can get you started on a taper.  Ideally we hope members can be stable when they begin their taper but for some this just doesn't happen and they realize that starting their taper is the only way to end the pain.

 

I know you're scared and I know how hard this is but taking the drug is hurting you at this point, so your only choice is to taper from it, this is the only way you're going to gain your freedom. 

 

Help me understand your exact doses now if you will, is your total daily dose typically?

 

2 mg Xanax and 1.625 Klonopin

 

It's my wish that we get you on a consistent dose each day, can you stick to taking the above dose for a few days with no rescue doses?

Yes that's my dose. I'll do my best not to take rescue doses.

 

I'm going yo need some sort of supplements or something to get through this. At least for 𝗦𝗹𝗲𝗲𝗽.

 

Yes I'm scared as heck!😭 yes I want off desperately.

 

How can we know there's no way fir me to stabilize to taper? Is it because of rescue doses? Like I've done wrong?

 

How, what is going on? I'm the type that needs to understand everything. Like how caN I be having such bad DR & visual distortions & still 𝗦𝗹𝗲𝗲𝗽, have some functionality I'm calm & happy & not anxious sometimes , & not all the typical tremors(I do get that minor Ly, sometimes minor jaw or hand, but think from coffee or overdoing it). Why now? After all these years & im not tolerant to X? Am I having these sxs?

 

Sorry so many questions, but If you cOuld just reassure me with a little explanation to my questions?

 

Thank you again, so much for your help.

SC

Oh, what if I only take .75 during day, but hold all else steady & it's possibly 1x during day, but not more? Would that be ok? If I go under my daily dose?

 

We are sure my symptoms are from benzos?

Hi Scardie,

 

I need you to understand that I don't have all of the answers you're seeking, no one does, we just have our personal experience that we share with you in the hope we can help you get through this.  I don't have experience tapering, I quit cold turkey, so I'm not the best person to advise you but I've read a lot of posts.  I have a difficult time remembering all of my experiences from my cold turkey because it happened in 2007-2008 so forgive me if I can't reassure you the way you need.  I do want to help you though, so please work with me so I can understand your situation a little better.

 

I was looking through some of your old posts, it looks like you joined the forum a little over two years ago, was your DP/DR this bad back then or is it a new symptom?  Also, what was your reasoning or your Dr's reasoning for adding the Xanax in addition to the Klonopin?

 

I can't say for sure if your symptoms are benzo related, but they sure sound like they are, it sounds like you've reached tolerance and the only way you're going to get better is to get off of the drug.  Have you looked at  The Ashton Manual lately, chapter 3 will list your symptoms and why you feel them.

 

Please take your dose for the next few days with no rescue doses and no reductions, just take the 2 mg Xanax and the 1.625 of Klonopin and write down how you feel, lets see if this is too much or too little, okay?

 

 

Hi Scardie,

 

I need you to understand that I don't have all of the answers you're seeking, no one does, we just have our personal experience that we share with you in the hope we can help you get through this.  I don't have experience tapering, I quit cold turkey, so I'm not the best person to advise you but I've read a lot of posts.  I have a difficult time remembering all of my experiences from my cold turkey because it happened in 2007-2008 so forgive me if I can't reassure you the way you need.  I do want to help you though, so please work with me so I can understand your situation a little better.

 

I was looking through some of your old posts, it looks like you joined the forum a little over two years ago, was your DP/DR this bad back then or is it a new symptom?  Also, what was your reasoning or your Dr's reasoning for adding the Xanax in addition to the Klonopin?

 

I can't say for sure if your symptoms are benzo related, but they sure sound like they are, it sounds like you've reached tolerance and the only way you're going to get better is to get off of the drug.  Have you looked at  The Ashton Manual lately, chapter 3 will list your symptoms and why you feel them.

 

Please take your dose for the next few days with no rescue doses and no reductions, just take the 2 mg Xanax and the 1.625 of Klonopin and write down how you feel, lets see if this is too much or too little, okay?

Ok. Much thanks. Of course I'll work with you.  No dp dr back when I joined. This just started sometime after my cross off of half my k to half equal X this past December. I'm not sure exactly when, as I was on another med that I started at the same time that had diss/vis side effects(short term too, that I'm uncomfortable discussing online that med) when I discontinued it, & symptoms continued, I started to realize it may be benzos.

 

We added the Xanax at my request because I was feeling tolerant to the effectiveness of clonazepam(but not in compl Withdrawal from it or anything less effective for anxiety, panic, 𝗦𝗹𝗲𝗲𝗽)& we've had me on Xanax before & it's always been more effective than the k pin. I wanted a better quality of life.

 

Although I wonder if the cold fast Cross was like a cold turkey off that clonazepam & Thats at least part of why m having symptoms?

I think I'm quite tolerant to k not X, but x short half life hard esp. if k tolerant & or withdrawal.

I don't want to, but others have suggested trying to add some k back to daytime to see if helps these sxs & or interdose kpin withdrawal. Just food fir thought-Id really hate to take them both during day,but if helps this journey..? Is risk though.

 

I can tell you that when I've been making my most recent kpin reductions, things get much worse for awhile. I Havnt kept total track-cog fog & other isdues, but think see a pattern of these .125 k cuts may be too large & or just put a real hurting on me like extra random out of nowhere scary irrational irritability that I think settles a bit around 2 weeks after cut to more normal moody stuff. It's like total surprise uncontrollable outbursts-thought hm, maybe hormones etc, but must be benzos.

 

I'll take my dose as you said, but if I don't need the 4th .25x during the day. Like it doesn't fit in, I don't see how I can force it? Ie if I start at 9-1, 1-5, 5-9- no room or reason for 4th dose unless I'm super anxious after 3rd dose or another dose. If I start at 6am, then aLl 4 would fit. Ya dig?

 

Thanks

SC

Also, if helpful if you go to the beginning of this thread & click on the link, then go look at the first link to some of my posts oN here.i believe it answers many questions about how this started, my symptoms & is dated.

Thanks

Hi Scardie,

 

I have to go out of town for a day but when I get back I'll work with you, hopefully others will drop by too.  But for now, take the amount we agreed on and we'll figure this out as we go, okay?

 

Pamster

Ok Pamster,

I'll do my best & I appreciate it. Juggling more than one health issue. Bear with me as I steady these doses back, again, please. Thanks SC

Hi Scardie,

 

I have to go out of town for a day but when I get back I'll work with you, hopefully others will drop by too.  But for now, take the amount we agreed on and we'll figure this out as we go, okay?

 

Pamster

Hi pamster

Just wanted to check in real quick. Let you know I've been busy dealing with other health issues & didn't want you to think I'd fallen off map. Ok, we touch base next week? Thanks so much for everything.

Hope you have a good weekend.

SC

I'm back Scardie, can you tell me what your dose has been the last two days?

Sorry I missed you pamster. Having really hard time right now. Please bear with me. Other health issues issues incapacitating me. And..please don't be upset with me but I cut .125K about 2-4 days ago. Seemed like a good idea at the time. That extra uneven quarter .125 been consistent for at least past month. So now, if I can hang on 1.5 K. Xanax been 2X forlast  2 days I think. I don't think I can make that big of k cut anymore, as it looks/feels now, anyway. Can we pick up in a few? Melting down.

I'll be more detailed when I return.

Thanks

SC

This is your taper Scardie, I don't get mad, we're here to guide and support, not make your decisions for you.   

Hi pamster,

Hope this finds you well.

Had moment of functionality & thought I'd give you an update, best I can. Here You go.

 

ended up, probably bad mistake, but making another klonopin cut of .125=on 6/12. So from ~1.625-1.5k. Seemed like a good idea at the time. I had been holding that uneven dry taper 1.625 k last cut dose K cut for a month & it was so uneven etc I just wanted to be rid of it & though I was ready. So it seems it ended up being too large of a cut(esp. since I was just then trying to stable my doses as described last) And I've been miserable & dysfunctional since with that withdrawal. Sobbing meltdowns, hopeless, irrational irritability, cog fog, fatigue. Have just felt that CNS couldn't take much, so fragile, sobbing off & on all day..

Simultaneously, I've been dealing with extreme level 10 pain from a chronic pain condition that flares worse on some days than others & it's been bad daily lately-bedridden, feeling toxic & OD'd on  otc pain relievers around the clock etc. This in itself drives people to severe depression, fatigue, anxiety.

 

I'm going to have to learn use scale from now on I believe for cuts.

 

Also, trying & failing to quit & or wean coffee over & over...

 

Anyway, I've been taking all 4 of my day .25 X doses, but not exactly at same times each day, but at least all 4. K cut helped that! I wake early due to my other health issues & beteween that & withdrawl sometimes I need to dose at like 5am & other days I've waited till anxious from caffeine, pain, & or withdrawl to take.

 

So, Sometimes ~7Am has been first dose & therefore last dose ends right before bed dose & or overlaps with it. Not Ideal, as that would/could effect how I fall asleep.  And have been times I had to force the 4th dose, but not too often due to k cut withdrawl.

 

I'll have to go through my calendar to track accuracy of dosing & Im just not up to that right now, sorry. But I've stayed within daily limits & not taken more nor less except for my .125 k cut on 6/12 & I accidentally skipped .5K on 6/16! I just didn't see it left in pill boc(no doubt threw a wrench into things) So-day .25X times 4 every 4 hours-starting 5-7am for first dose. Bed 1.5K, 1X.

 

I have noticed over at least the last 3 days until this morning, for some reason, that my vision, although somewhat distorted(letters looking big & bold & clear & colors looking bright & the reflections) has been moRe clear in the first part of the day & more blurry & sometimes double vision as I near bedtime, where I need my reading glasses to see tv less blurry & without double vision. This is what I journaled about that. On 6/16:

7:30am-I'm not sure what's going on right now but all my visuals seem pretty normal maybe some outdoor stuff looks a little bit fake like the neighbors house fake been going on so long I'm not sure but I'm not having blurry vision pretty clear nothing really seems very distorted right now and I'm anxious from coffee and having that body anxiety like I've been having RLS every night probably from my k pin cut. Water bottles are still sparkly and jiggly but not really bothering me.

5pm-just over past few minutes my vision has gotten really funky. They are going very blurry having a really hard time reading right now.

6/178pm-I think I'm starting to see a pattern of my visual distortion getting worse as the day goes on especially towards the evening at least in the past couple of days like my vision is getting blurry and glassy and Smeary, I feel like I need my glasses. So it either means, that the more I take my additional Xanax doses throughout the day, the Xanax is giving me visual side effects, somehow. Or the further I get away from my bed time clonazepam dose, withdrawal from that is causing my vision to go more blurry the day goes on. Or the further away from my morning coffee, the blurring gets worse. Maybe...that's my current hypothesis.

 

That said, this morning 6/19, I'm already having the blurry vision, but not as bad as it can get. Only main change is no OTC pain meds this am & a different coffee. Took first Xanax at 5:30am.

 

Feeling more stable, knock n wood than have all week, so far, emotionally,(also my pain hasn't flared up worse like it has been, which no doubt helps, but maybe starting to level out a bit from last cut?) but very tired. Yeah vision is quite off this am 10am 6/19 with the blurry stuff. Depression, pain starting to pick up.

 

Sorry long ramble. Had a little Sorta ok streak, there...Anyway, until the blurriness this am, I was  starting to think maybe moving some klonopin, in very small measured amount to the am might help. Even though I really don't want to do so. Thought I was seeing a pattern, of possible interdose klonopin withdrawal. But I guess too unstable still to see pattern to do that, yet.

 

Thanks

SC X

 

 

I'm glad to hear you're keeping a journal, you have a lot going on so it's good you have that to help you make decisions.  I see you've made good effort to be more consistent in your dosing, and it appears that you've seen improvement in some areas? 

 

It sounds like coffee is causing you some issues, I get that, I had to give it up for a little while because it made me feel worse so I hope you can figure out how to help yourself when it comes to that. 

Hi SC I wanted to pipe up and say hang in there. Keep fighting the good fight.

Thanks cheese!

 

Hi Pamster,

Just popping by to say hello & let you know I'm still here. Sorry it's been so long. Yes, I've much going on, multi issues. Had to tend to some other things fir a bit. Still working on this caffeine situation. It's hard.  Everything is a ginormous effort in this state. Grateful fir the good moments. Trying to get some ducks in a row. Hope that you are doing well.

Scaredie

 

Its good to know you're still around, would you like to let us know what's going on with you lately, are you stable on your current dose and what that dose is?