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Which brain test detects benzo brain damage?


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I'd like to take an EEG and/or MRI if they could detect it (I'm a protracted victim - 4.5 years off). Not because I want a cure but because I want tangible proof that benzos did something to my brain. Will any structural damage be visible if I take these tests?
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I'd like to take an EEG and/or MRI if they could detect it (I'm a protracted victim - 4.5 years off). Not because I want a cure but because I want tangible proof that benzos did something to my brain. Will any structural damage be visible if I take these tests?

I have done both bc my doc said this is not mental its physical all my sxs and protracted w/d.. My MRI showed a brain tumor and white matter mass like scars in my grey matter mass a lot. Not supose to look that way. Scars in brain can be from MS and dementia, brain injury etc I have also a patologic EEG.

My patologic EEG is caused by a disorder in my brain. My neuro doc say it might be caused by to much or to low neurotransmitters in the brain like GABA , Glutamate, serotonin,Dopamine etc. And my doc say this is caused by benzo down regulated damage GABA receptors and unbalanced. I have a iatrogenic brain injury/damage. My tumor is located in the vestibular area close to my brainstem. It cause tinnitus abd balance, hearing issues not other strange neurologic sxs.

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Thanks for sharing. But can you explain better. If I don't have a brain tumor, which I hope I don't, will any structural damage come up in an EEG or MRI? Because my neurologist says nothing will come up, but he also says I am inventing WD. Which I know is not true. So maybe he just doesn't know. Can anyone tell me if I will see anything if I was only damaged by benzos and take an MRI or EEG? Which one is a better test for this?
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Hello Nony,

 

I had an MRI of my brains done after I was C/T-ed (see signature) and developed tinnitus. The scan came back as normal, nothing to worry about (though my GP did not go into details).

 

You will find this in the Ahston manual (https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha03.htm):

 

"Do benzodiazepines cause structural brain damage? These results have raised the question of whether benzodiazepines can cause structural brain damage. Like alcohol, benzodiazepines are fat soluble and are taken up by the fat-containing (lipid) membranes of brain cells. It has been suggested that their use over many years could cause physical changes such as shrinkage of the cerebral cortex, as has been shown in chronic alcoholics, and that such changes may be only partially reversible after withdrawal. However, despite several computed tomography (CT) scan studies, no signs of brain atrophy have been conclusively demonstrated in therapeutic dose users, and even the results in high dose abusers are inconclusive. It is possible that benzodiazepines can cause subtle changes which are not detected by present methods, but on the available evidence there is no reason to think that any such changes would be permanent."

 

SG

 

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As I was in my taper I was also in the process of getting a battery of tests by a neurologist because I thought I might have a brain tumor - I didn't know at that time the headaches and head pressure were from inter-dose withdrawal.

 

I had so may tests done and they all came back totally normal.

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I'd like to take an EEG and/or MRI if they could detect it (I'm a protracted victim - 4.5 years off). Not because I want a cure but because I want tangible proof that benzos did something to my brain. Will any structural damage be visible if I take these tests?

 

I had an MRI done about a year ago after I started experiencing some short-term memory loss, accompanied by some odd behaviors on my part. It came back as normal.

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PET, SPECT or MR spectroscopy might show something but unlikely normal MRI would show withdrawal.

Functional MRI might.

 

Unlikely any of those would lead to any treatment.

 

 

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Same here. MRI of brain because I was convinced is had MS. I didn’t understand I was in withdrawal at the time. Thought something was super wrong with me.

Came back normal.

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But I had normal MRI and EEG in 2017 in may. I took those tests bc I was so dizzy after the forced CT. My white matter mass is not notmal thisis scars in grey matter after something. My doc cant explain why i have this. It could be MS or dementia (I am 50) or some other organic illness/damage in brain.  This is damaged neurons says my neurodoc. My EEG show abnormal brain waves too but no seizures or epilepsy. And my tumor dosent cause abnormal EEG.  My doc say my EEG is abnormal bc my brain dosent work as it should. Lack of neurotransmitter substans and/or the visual damage I have...Could benzo cause this damage?! We know that glutamate cause neurons to die. Thats a fact! And a brain in benzo w/d can have to much glutamate
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As far as I am aware most ppl who have MRI do not show any structural damage that would explain symptoms.

 

Presumably if glutamate is causing neuronal death - which it does it would only show as structural damage on MRI if that damage was focussed in specific areas do that enough neuros are killed to show as damage?

 

I am aware of a guy who had a QEEG & other tests (POSs fMRI?)  due to AD issues that showed extreme disruption of brain activity that was diagnosed as neurotoxicity.

 

I would be interested to know of other ppl have had EEGs or QEEGs or fMRI etc and of it showed anything.

 

It might be Sundanceshaman that other ppl have simply not been tested.

 

There wa one guy on Facebook who was having constant muscle spasming who was found to have ongoing seizures and went back on diazepam. Wish I could do that.

 

 

 

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[cf...]

As far as I am aware most ppl who have MRI do not show any structural damage that would explain symptoms.

 

Presumably if glutamate is causing neuronal death - which it does it would only show as structural damage on MRI if that damage was focussed in specific areas do that enough neuros are killed to show as damage?

 

I am aware of a guy who had a QEEG & other tests (POSs fMRI?)  due to AD issues that showed extreme disruption of brain activity that was diagnosed as neurotoxicity.

 

I would be interested to know of other ppl have had EEGs or QEEGs or fMRI etc and of it showed anything.

 

It might be Sundanceshaman that other ppl have simply not been tested.

 

There wa one guy on Facebook who was having constant muscle spasming who was found to have ongoing seizures and went back on diazepam. Wish I could do that.

First, there can be too much glutamatearound; abnormally high concentrations of glutamate can lead to overexcitation of the receiving nerve cell. ... This overexcitation can lead to effects that can cause cell damage and/or death. For this reason, glutamate is referred to as an excitotoxin when it causes cellular damage

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PET, SPECT or MR spectroscopy might show something but unlikely normal MRI would show withdrawal.

Functional MRI might.

 

Unlikely any of those would lead to any treatment.

Did anybody try any of those tests? I don't know what they are?

Thank you to all those who shared the tests they took. It seems it would be pretty useless to do a regular MRI. I took an EEG four years ago, when WD began, but they can't find the results (I never got them then; was too sick to follow up). I don't know who to go to to complain. Doc can't find 'em; medical center I took them by says they sent it to the doc and don't have a copy.

Another question, how come there are studies that allegedly noticed brain damage from benzos  - which tests do you think they took?[https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/side-effects/201011/brain-damage-benzodiazepines[/url]

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Which tests would show the damage they say they found in this article?

I can't read it clear-headedly right now but I don't think it has the info (hard time reading).

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[cf...]

glutamate storming kills brain cells?  That's what I've read.

Yes too much glutamate kills braincells. Thats true. And glutamate is all over with no GABA in the brain.

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Dear Nony and All,

 

That was an interesting article.  I would imagine if you took 20 people with a mental illness, finding 3 with some measurable visible damage would not be unusual.  While I have left out an important part of "what is wrong with us" by entirely neglecting histamine, I will l apologize and for that and get to work on the problem in another thread.

 

In this thread, I want to assure you that as of yet, there is no test that can be performed on a living human that would show our "brain damage," because it is at the molecular level. Too small to be seen by even the most powerful of microscopes.  Our receptors are measured in angstrom units, tenbillionths of a meter.  And it is more "neurological damage" than brain damage because if you think about it, we have issues everywhere, not just psychological ones.  I wish someone would kill the man who is constantly squeezing my neck and has his knee in my back.

 

When researcher write papers on medication experiments and "look" at receptors, they use very tiny instruments to measure voltage and current changes, and do chemical tests for mRNA expression to get receptor counts, all done on the nerve tissue of the rats they killed after the experiment.  This is the nature of the damage we feel, and the damage they are really describing in the article as well.

 

What I would like to know, and seriously I would like to know this so if anyone does, please chime in, is:

If it is neurological damage and present in nerves all over out body, which I am 100% certain it is, and a surgeon can take a nerve biopsy, a small piece of living nerve tissue from a human, and test it for "disease," they why can't they take that same nerve biopsy and do the tests the researchers do on the dissected rat brains to show the molecular level damage in humans?  It seems like they should be able to do that, and no one I have ever asked has given me a good reason why they don't/can't.

 

That would be your test, if and when it is ever developed.  Hope that helped.

 

Ramcon1

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Ramcon, I remember reading about a lady on here who had a small nerve biopsy type of test done one time and it was abnormal.  Can't remember who it was or when.  When I read that rat study, on autopsy they used a chemical dye to show all the extra glutamate receptors.  I was trained and worked as a lab tech and know that that is how they can see and measure the number of cells they are interested in looking at, etc.
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Magnetic Resonance Spectroscopy can measure levels on neurotransmitters.

fMRI can look at gross brain activity which may show issues in WD.

Thermography can show similar stuff.

QEEQ can shoe cortical activity.

 

None of that helps in any way as there is no treatment that can help.

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Magnetic Resonance Spectroscopy can measure levels on neurotransmitters.

fMRI can look at gross brain activity which may show issues in WD.

Thermography can show similar stuff.

QEEQ can shoe cortical activity.

 

None of that helps in any way as there is no treatment that can help.

 

There is no KNOWN treatment that can help, mainly because next to no doctors are actually looking for a treatment.  And you can't find a treatment unless you have evidence of some kind of condition.  We are the only medical condition support group that isn't interested in learning about the mechanism of our condition or finding any primary evidence of it.

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I have not found any doctors that will say my problems are connected to benzos.

 

I have a cyst on my pineal gland that gets monitored yearly.  I had a specific headache like a pinpoint I the middle of my brain that feels like a volcano.

 

I see a neurosurgeon who does an MRA (Magnetic Resonant Angiogram) not an MRI.  The difference is that an MRA looks at the blood vessels in your brain and neck.  It will also detect if you’ve had a brain bleed.

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Yes, that is true but atm there is no treatment that can help.

There are ppl that have gone through this who are very wealthy and, I’m sure, have been extensively tested and would have been able to find treatment if any currently existed.

 

I have contacted various ppl & academic depts doing research on illnesses that involve glutamate, for instance, asking if they would consider including protracted withdrawal as a possible subject of study they aren’t interested.

 

The problem, as I see ot, is that the treatment for all conditions where high glutamate is the issue is generally drugs that block glutamate transmission or drugs that increase gaba transmission.

 

Ppl could try things like Memantine but my Neuro has said it would stop my brain from healing and now I am so sensitised I can’t even take basic pain meds.

 

This is neurotoxicity and there is currently no treatment for that.

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I have not found any doctors that will say my problems are connected to benzos.

 

I have a cyst on my pineal gland that gets monitored yearly.  I had a specific headache like a pinpoint I the middle of my brain that feels like a volcano.

 

I see a neurosurgeon who does an MRA (Magnetic Resonant Angiogram) not an MRI.  The difference is that an MRA looks at the blood vessels in your brain and neck.  It will also detect if you’ve had a brain bleed.

 

 

What does your MRA show?

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I have not found any doctors that will say my problems are connected to benzos.

 

I have a cyst on my pineal gland that gets monitored yearly.  I had a specific headache like a pinpoint I the middle of my brain that feels like a volcano.

 

I see a neurosurgeon who does an MRA (Magnetic Resonant Angiogram) not an MRI.  The difference is that an MRA looks at the blood vessels in your brain and neck.  It will also detect if you’ve had a brain bleed.

 

 

 

I’m sorry Adjusta, I thought I posted a reply yesterday but it’s not here!

 

It started with an 8mm cyst on pineal gland and now it’s 1.5 x 1.2 cm

Doctor says it’s stable so wait and watch.  There’s really not much to do for it anyways.  I don’t want surgery in the middle of my brain.  I’m praying after I get off these meds and I heal that it will miraculously disappear.

 

 

What does your MRA show?

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