Did A Cold Turkey From Benzos Now Reinstated And Drugs Are Less Effectiveplzhelp

Not really...stopping a drug that already down regulated your GABA receptors wouldn't make them more sensitive to the drugs...in fact it would most likely be the opposite.  Think of it this way:  If a light bulb burns out, it's not more sensitive to electricity.  It doesn't work, so no matter how much electricity you push out to the light bulb, it won't light up.

 

GABA receptors are the same way.  After they are damaged, they don't respond to the same dose of a Benzo.  In fact, sometimes they don't even respond to much higher doses.  They are "burned out" like the light bulb.  The only difference is that GABA receptors, unlike a burned out light bulb, can heal and even regrow.  But again, time is the healer. 

 

I understand your logic in thinking that doing a CT and then being off Benzos for X amount of time would somehow make the Benzos start working again, but it's based on a faulty premise.

 

Once tolerance is reached, the drug stops working at that dose.  Then your only option is to increase the dose to get a similar effect from the drug.  That's why it's a dead end road.  You are always increasing the dose to get some relief.

There's a probiotic that grew gaba receptors in mice it's called lactobacillus rhamnosus. What do you think of that?

 

Reference, please.

 

There's a paper showing caffeine up-regulates GABAA in rats or mice, but most people feel caffeine is exactly the opposite of the kind of supplement that they desire.

 

In my experience, individuals who try to short-cut the healing time-line don't experience success.  I'm not saying that you shouldn't investigate options, but you should realize that there are literally tens of thousands of people who have searched for a quick fix to benzo tolerance/withdrawal and haven't found one.  If somebody had found something that consistently helped, we'd all be all over it.

I think..!!?? -ok, I have a notion.. That some people might find something that helps for themselves, perhaps only at certain times even, but the next 10 people that try the same thing might not be happy with the outcome at all...

Its that “difference” thing that makes this whole show so hard..

 

...and that was “help”, -not “cure”..

 

 

http://w-bad.org/tolerance/

Not really...stopping a drug that already down regulated your GABA receptors wouldn't make them more sensitive to the drugs...in fact it would most likely be the opposite.  Think of it this way:  If a light bulb burns out, it's not more sensitive to electricity.  It doesn't work, so no matter how much electricity you push out to the light bulb, it won't light up.

 

GABA receptors are the same way.  After they are damaged, they don't respond to the same dose of a Benzo.  In fact, sometimes they don't even respond to much higher doses.  They are "burned out" like the light bulb.  The only difference is that GABA receptors, unlike a burned out light bulb, can heal and even regrow.  But again, time is the healer. 

 

I understand your logic in thinking that doing a CT and then being off Benzos for X amount of time would somehow make the Benzos start working again, but it's based on a faulty premise.

 

Once tolerance is reached, the drug stops working at that dose.  Then your only option is to increase the dose to get a similar effect from the drug.  That's why it's a dead end road.  You are always increasing the dose to get some relief.

There's a probiotic that grew gaba receptors in mice it's called lactobacillus rhamnosus. What do you think of that?

 

Reference, please.

 

There's a paper showing caffeine up-regulates GABAA in rats or mice, but most people feel caffeine is exactly the opposite of the kind of supplement that they desire.

 

In my experience, individuals who try to short-cut the healing time-line don't experience success.  I'm not saying that you shouldn't investigate options, but you should realize that there are literally tens of thousands of people who have searched for a quick fix to benzo tolerance/withdrawal and haven't found one.  If somebody had found something that consistently helped, we'd all be all over it.

"In addition, when the brains of the little mice were tested, the amounts of mRNA of various types of GABA receptors (reflecting the amount of messages from the genes to create the GABA receptors) were higher in certain key brain areas of certain key subtypes of GABA receptor.  Meaning mice who had the probiotics made more anxiety-reducing receptors in the brain.  Interesting, no?"

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201206/do-probiotics-help-anxiety

...one last time (I hope), lest I get in trouble for spamming..

 

 

***

While its far from a “cure”, I have been playing with a targeting product “Biome Lift Probiotic” by Activated Probiotics..

ACTIVATEDPROBIOTICS.COM.AU

 

Its been interesting but complicated (im still tapering my final med)..

 

To say more would be getting repetitive, but I do have high hopes for the microbiome industry in future medicine..

 

 

"In addition, when the brains of the little mice were tested, the amounts of mRNA of various types of GABA receptors (reflecting the amount of messages from the genes to create the GABA receptors) were higher in certain key brain areas of certain key subtypes of GABA receptor.  Meaning mice who had the probiotics made more anxiety-reducing receptors in the brain.  Interesting, no?"

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201206/do-probiotics-help-anxiety

 

Thanks.  Let me read thru the paper. 

 

There are a fair number of people in the forum who take probiotics for various digestive issues.  We'll want their feedback too.

Hey, I would love to help but first off I would want to know why the "reinstatement" in general? I am also a little sad to see so many people commenting but not willing to ask that first question. Most the people on this form know how damaging benzos are and how they "rewire" the brain to say the least. I would be cautious about reinstating and I would consider ALL my other options before getting back on a benzo which we all know that over time you will have to eventually quit. The withdrawal symptoms right now may be hard and may make you feel like you want to give up and get back on but in the long run when inevitably the meds stop giving you relief and you start serving them, it will be 100x worse and you'll wish you never reinstated. That's my opinion and experience with myself and 20-30 others who have had to go through this prescribed brain damage and hell.

I want to encourage you to be cautious in the changes you make in your drugs and dosing regimes.  We generally encourage slow, steady tapers to help reduce the impact of dosing changes.  Your recent drug/dosing history is pretty random.

 

May 20 - 1 mg Ativan

May 21 - 1 mg Ativan, 7 mg Valium

May 22 - 10 mg Valium

May 23 - ?

May 24 - 2 mg Ativan

May 25 - 1 mg Ativan, ‘lots’ of n-acetyl cysteine

May 26 - ?

May 27 - 12 mg Valium

May 28 or 29 - c/t

June 2 - Reinstated Valium and/or Ativan

Difficult to tell after this, but sounds like you’re continuing Ativan

 

I think this behavior hastens tolerance and makes eventual tapering more difficult.  I'd invite you to get steady and pursue a nice, steady taper.

Hey, I would love to help but first off I would want to know why the "reinstatement" in general? I am also a little sad to see so many people commenting but not willing to ask that first question. Most the people on this form know how damaging benzos are and how they "rewire" the brain to say the least. I would be cautious about reinstating and I would consider ALL my other options before getting back on a benzo which we all know that over time you will have to eventually quit. The withdrawal symptoms right now may be hard and may make you feel like you want to give up and get back on but in the long run when inevitably the meds stop giving you relief and you start serving them, it will be 100x worse and you'll wish you never reinstated. That's my opinion and experience with myself and 20-30 others who have had to go through this prescribed brain damage and hell.

1) Why the reinstatement..??

-Poor Nik’s sig makes that pretty clear (to me)..

 

2) Nik didn't ask for opinions as to reinstate or not.. This is a support forum, thus hopefully supportive of peoples choices..

 

3) As to a general rule on reinstating or not...

-Were it so simple..

Your right, your experiences lead you to AN opinion..

 

Not that I really had a horse in the race as the thread had taken a different direction by the time I read it, and I just provided some info for perusal if anyone was interested..

 

Hope that helps..??

 

 

 

I woke up to very bad anxiety this morning I didn't have this yesterday or the day before that, how come?

 

I had some meatballs yesterday which might have msg in it could that have been the cause? I also took my Valium one hour later than usual, at 6 pm.

Because you are still on Valium....that's why you woke up with anxiety.  It's a very common symptom of taking a Benzo even while you are still on. 

Because you are still on Ativan....that's why you woke up with anxiety.  It's a very common symptom of taking a Benzo even while you are still on.

It's the first time I had it, morning anxiety.. It was real bad, like terribly bad. It was like I was in heavy withdrawal.

 

Doesn't the 7 mg of valium I take at 5 pm substitutes for the morning anxiety? I didn't have it yesterday and 2 days ago. I woke up fine back then.

Taking Diazepam or Valium is causing your symptoms.  Drugs are not a substitute for anxiety or any other condition.  IMO, you need to taper off the Valium.  You won't heal until you are completely off.

Nikitis. Your problems seem to be tolerance. And this happens, sooner or later, with problems with anxiety and your sleep. What is your next step? Should you continue to lower your dose? 

Nikitis. Your problems seem to be tolerance. And this happens, sooner or later, with problems with anxiety and your sleep. What is your next step? Should you continue to lower your dose? 

Yes I'm gonna taper off the Ativan first in 2 months then taper off the valium.

Taking Diazepam or Valium is causing your symptoms.  Drugs are not a substitute for anxiety or any other condition.  IMO, you need to taper off the Valium.  You won't heal until you are completely off.

I didn't have the terrible morning withdrawal anxiety this morning so I think it was the meatballs.

Could demyelination be the cause of the tolerance? Would lions mane help recover the myelin sheath?

 

Edit: I found this made a seperate topic for it:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=242210.0

So no one knows why tolerance occurs when you cold turkey benzos?

Hi Nikitis. I have read all your posts. But sorry if I don't understand your signature. Are you lowering the dose? 

Tolerance doesn't occur because of a CT.  Tolerance occurs when your body no longer gets the same effect from the drug at your current dose.

 

Many people do not get the same effect after reinstating with Benzos because their GABA receptors are already temporarily damaged from the previous doses

 

It's not that you've necessarily reached tolerance, it's just that it's fairly "normal" to have the same dose you jumped off from, not give you any or very little symptom relief after going back on Benzos at the dose.

 

I would be careful searching for OTC supplements that may have provided some symptom relief to others.  Why?  Because supplements may increase symptom intensity and some supplements work paradoxically.  For example, I took OTC sleep remedies that actually made my insomnia worse or didn't work at all.

 

As long as you are still tapering, I would expect the unexpected.  There really isn't any Rhyme or Reason to Benzo WD and healing/recovery.  It's mostly a roller coaster ride for most, with highs, lows and everything in between.

 

You heal, but time is the healer.  There aren't any "magic" or "secret" potions, pills, supplements, etc. that will speed up the healing and recovery process.  Sure, you might read about people that were put on an AD or Gabapentin or something else for symptom relief and they claim it worked for them and that's probably true, but WD is UNIQUE to each person, so what worked for someone else most likely will not work for you?

 

Good luck!

 

 

Hi Nikitis. I have read all your posts. But sorry if I don't understand your signature. Are you lowering the dose? 

I ended up upping my dose because I had severe withdrawal on 7 mg of valium in the midday so I upped to 10 mg of valium. Now I occasionally get mild anxiety.

Tolerance doesn't occur because of a CT.  Tolerance occurs when your body no longer gets the same effect from the drug at your current dose.

 

Many people do not get the same effect after reinstating with Benzos because their GABA receptors are already temporarily damaged from the previous doses

 

It's not that you've necessarily reached tolerance, it's just that it's fairly "normal" to have the same dose you jumped off from, not give you any or very little symptom relief after going back on Benzos at the dose.

 

I would be careful searching for OTC supplements that may have provided some symptom relief to others.  Why?  Because supplements may increase symptom intensity and some supplements work paradoxically.  For example, I took OTC sleep remedies that actually made my insomnia worse or didn't work at all.

 

As long as you are still tapering, I would expect the unexpected.  There really isn't any Rhyme or Reason to Benzo WD and healing/recovery.  It's mostly a roller coaster ride for most, with highs, lows and everything in between.

 

You heal, but time is the healer.  There aren't any "magic" or "secret" potions, pills, supplements, etc. that will speed up the healing and recovery process.  Sure, you might read about people that were put on an AD or Gabapentin or something else for symptom relief and they claim it worked for them and that's probably true, but WD is UNIQUE to each person, so what worked for someone else most likely will not work for you?

 

Good luck!

Thank you, but don't gaba receptors renew themselves all the time?

GABA takes some time to heal and/or renew for most...that's why you experience symptoms

 

If you want to know why this is happening, it has to do with your down regulated GABA and the lack of balance with Glutamate.  Both are nervous system receptors.  GABA is your body's "brake pedal" or what slows things down and makes you calm and relaxed.  Glutamate is your body's "gas pedal" or what makes you active and alert or even fight or flight.  Normally the two are in a "balancing act" so one doesn't overtake the other.  But when your GABA is temporarily taken off line by the Benzo, Glutamate rules the day and night.  That's why you might feel wired all the time, have racing thoughts and are never sleepy along with a host of other symptoms.  It takes some time for your body to repair the temporary damage.  No one knows how long that will be.  But your body knows exactly how to repair the damage and put your GABA and Glutamate back into balance.  However, it is a very nonlinear process...UP and DOWN, one step forward, 2 steps back for some time for most.

 

Tolerance doesn't occur because of a CT.  Tolerance occurs when your body no longer gets the same effect from the drug at your current dose.

 

Many people do not get the same effect after reinstating with Benzos because their GABA receptors are already temporarily damaged from the previous doses

 

It's not that you've necessarily reached tolerance, it's just that it's fairly "normal" to have the same dose you jumped off from, not give you any or very little symptom relief after going back on Benzos at the dose.

 

I would be careful searching for OTC supplements that may have provided some symptom relief to others.  Why?  Because supplements may increase symptom intensity and some supplements work paradoxically.  For example, I took OTC sleep remedies that actually made my insomnia worse or didn't work at all.

 

As long as you are still tapering, I would expect the unexpected.  There really isn't any Rhyme or Reason to Benzo WD and healing/recovery.  It's mostly a roller coaster ride for most, with highs, lows and everything in between.

 

You heal, but time is the healer.  There aren't any "magic" or "secret" potions, pills, supplements, etc. that will speed up the healing and recovery process.  Sure, you might read about people that were put on an AD or Gabapentin or something else for symptom relief and they claim it worked for them and that's probably true, but WD is UNIQUE to each person, so what worked for someone else most likely will not work for you?

 

Good luck!

Thank you, but don't gaba receptors renew themselves all the time?

 

Yes they do. They upregulate in a few weeks in everybody. But they have nothing to do with why we experience withdrawals. We don't know why we get withdrawals.