So Confused

I am having a very hard time understanding how to get off these things. I thought about the scale, but I feel good at dosing twice daily and my pills must weigh very little, they are smaller than a birth control pill. I thought liquid titration made sense and it’s not making sense. I’ve been reading through here using the search for liquid titration. I don’t understand math. I can’t seem to follow. How many pills to dissolve vs how much vodka (that I understand) how much liquid to use. How to actually make cuts daily. I’m really just not understanding how to do this. I just want off these things and I’m so confused. Please someone help me make sense of this.

 

Also I thought maybe 1mg (2pills), dissolved in 1ml vodka, 99ml of water added, then do I take out a full ml of water daily? Then that didn’t make sense either. I am completely confused.

It's just a recipe like any recipe.  Each day you make the same mixture - almost like making orange juice in the morning.  Sounds like your morning recipe is: 1 mg (drug) + 1 ml vodka + 99 ml water.  Be sure to mix well after each liquid addition.

 

Each day, the goal is to drink a little less of this 'orange juice'.  You started drinking all 100 ml.  The next day, you threw away 1 ml and drank 99 ml.  The following day, you throw away 2 ml and drink 98.  Then toss 3 ml and drink 97, and so on...    Eventually, you'll basically throw away 99 ml and just drink 1 ml.

 

You can slow down or hold if you feel the need by adjusting the amount you throw out each day.  If throwing out 1 ml per day works, do that.  If that seems too fast, throw out 0.5 ml per day.  If you're really feeling lousy, take the same amount as the previous day.

 

Does that help?

That does sound a lot simpler. There was just so many different posts on here and too much information that nothing made sense anymore.

I taught this stuff to students for many years.  It doesn't have to be difficult.  If you've made Hamburger Helper, you've combined more ingredients in more complex ways than you will when you make this 'orange juice'.

 

There's are some little tricks that you'll learn as you go along, but no need to go in that direction yet.  For now, just be consistent in what you do.

Thank you, you eased my frustration and confusion completely. Now, when I take out this 1ml, or maybe less we’ll see, do I take this out of the total solution? Or take it out of the water before I pour it in with the rest of the stuff, or is there any difference. Seems simpler I took out of total solution.

Hi hiwyci,

 

badsocref did a great job didn't he, I even understood it and it's been alluding me for years!  My limited understanding would be you would take out the 1 ml out of the entire solution after you've made it.  If you took it out before you added the medication, that wouldn't be a reduction, just less water.  But, we'll make sure of this with badsocref when he returns.

 

How are you feeling, as I recall you're low on pills and trying to make it to your next refill?

Thank you, you eased my frustration and confusion completely. Now, when I take out this 1ml, or maybe less we’ll see, do I take this out of the total solution? Or take it out of the water before I pour it in with the rest of the stuff, or is there any difference. Seems simpler I took out of total solution.

 

Take it out of the final solution (although, in reality, there would be no difference).

Thank you both. I’m feeling ok, anxious. But that’s why I’m on these things. I took 2 instead of 1 today but as long as I have enough to make it till next script than I will stick with this liquid taper plan

Also I thought maybe 1mg (2pills), dissolved in 1ml vodka, 99ml of water added, then do I take out a full ml of water daily? Then that didn’t make sense either. I am completely confused.

 

If you’re using regular vodka you’re going to find at a store, I would recommend 2ml of vodka for every 1mg of pill.  Then, add 8ml or water for every gram.  You can dilute it to whatever ratio you need.  But the general rule is 2ml of solvent (vodka), 1mg of pill, 8ml of water.

I’m sorry but I don’t even understand that. And when I tried 2ml of vodka in with 98lm of water the vodka taste and smelled strong. I don’t understand 2ml vodka and 8ml water that’s not very much solution.

Somebody should check my math on the following...

 

The amount of vodka needed depends on the type and amount of benzo being dissolved.  I'm pretty sure you can get 1 mg of lorazepam into 1 ml of 80 proof (40%) vodka.  The mole fraction solubility for lorazepam in 40% ethanol is 0.000336* which I think equates to a little over 4.3 mg per ml.

 

If you're using 5 or 10 mg valium tablets, I think you'll need to increase the alcohol a bit to make sure it all gets into solution.

 

*https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc402444/m1/2/

I wonder if the fact that the Ativan is sublingual would make it easier to dissolve in the 1 ml of vodka?

Wow badsocref - you must be a chemist to be doing mole fraction solubility.

 

I could get my college chemistry text book out and check your math as you requested but might I recommend the visual inspection way?

 

I have trusted just added enough vodka to get the pill to dissolve.  It is like the sugar in water experiment.  You can add sugar to water and it will dissolve until it reaches saturation.  At that point, you can visually see the sugar is no longer dissolving.  In fact, you can stir the mixture (add energy) to get it dissolved but as soon as it settles down again, the sugar will fall out of solution.

 

So I tell people to just add the vodka slowly so they just use the minimum amount to dissolve the tablet. 

What about when I get down to low amounts, like is my last ml just going to be that ml of vodka? Or 1ml vodka/1ml water? So on.

What about when I get down to low amounts, like is my last ml just going to be that ml of vodka? Or 1ml vodka/1ml water? So on.

 

You would still make the solution.  When down to your last mL, you would use the one mL from your solution/homebrew you make.  You will ALWAYS make the liquid and then take your dose from that. 

Ohhhh ok, that makes sense. Thank you.

Yeah, add all the water, mix well, then remove what you want to remove.