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Is this normal for WD insomnia?


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I am nearly 2 months benzo free tapering on Valium using the Ashton Method. My sleep has been spotty. It was actually OK for the first several weeks but is worse now. I had the typical hypnic jerks right as I was drifting off and even as asleep. Those lasted for a couple of weeks but now things are different. I now have no problems initially falling asleep (other than still being bothered by noise while reading in bed), but after 2 to 3 hours of sleep every night I wake up feeling awful - I feel shaky and often hot, having to shed covers and sometimes sweating. If I get up and walk around it dissipates somewhat. The longer I'm in bed, the worse I feel. Just a general malaise but it is pretty powerful. I can sometimes get back to sleep for a couple of hours after waking up the first time but the next round is always worse until I finally get up. There is often a roaring in my ears and my back teeth are sore from, what I assume, is grinding my teeth. I average about 4 to 5 hours a night, so I feel lucky in that regard, but it is hard fought and I feel like I've been through a battle every morning. I had an MRI last spring that found a cyst on my liver that was determined to be nothing to worry about. However, with the night sweating and general feeling of queasiness I have at nights, my gastroenterologist wants to run a battery of expensive tests including another MRI and scoping my esophagus (even though I also had that test done last spring also). As I read these boards I'm thinking my problems are more likely to be continued issues from the benzos. I'm not looking for medical advice on the tests, I just want to know if anyone can speak to having these symptoms I'm now experiencing as typical benzo withdrawal symptoms.
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What you are experiencing are common Benzo WD symptoms.  Unfortunately, doing a proper taper doesn't mean a quick recovery without symptoms and lack of sleep.

 

Acute WD can last from 30-90 days for most.  You are only about 60 days off and could very well still be in acute WD?

 

If getting tests done will give you peace of mind, then do it, but I can almost guarantee they won't find anything?

 

I had every medical test done my insurance would allow and I visited 4 different ERs in 4 different cities over a 30 day period and they found nothing. 

 

Your "toxic" sleep is pretty normal.  When I would fall asleep, I had very similar experiences including the clenched jaw, grinding teeth, tinnitus, sweating, etc.  But at least you are getting sleep.  I was averaging 5-10 hours per week for months. 

 

You have a lot of GABA receptors in your GI Tract that get down regulated too and can cause a host of GI symptoms.  I had horrible constipation, Acid Reflux, Benzo Belly, etc.  They all went away over time and without being treated.

 

There is no rhyme or reason to anything in WD.  New symptoms can appear out of the blue and others can fade only to come back again.  But eventually, everything fades and goes away.  Time is the healer. 

 

 

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Thanks for the feedback. I suspected I would hear that from those who have gone through benzo wd. I don't believe the tests would find anything either and think the easiest answer is usually the correct one so I'll soldier on and see how it goes. It just surprises me how many physicians don't want to consider continued wd after 2 months free of benzos could be the culprit. My family doctor is very familiar with my benzo journey and wanted to put me on anti depressants even though I told him I'm neither depressed nor stressed beyond the obvious insomnia. I'm not going down the anti depressant road unless as a last resort. I've had enough of chemicals disrupting my brain chemistry. To his credit at least he wasn't trying to load me up with expensive tests like by gastroenterologist. My wife is a nurse and tells me to be careful how much I complain because doctors are generally happy to rack up the tests and bills if you do.
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Well, maybe there is something to having tests done. I decided against the MRI and EGD but I did go ahead and get blood work. ANA came back positive for possible autoimmune disorder. Looks like I'm heading to a rheumatologist. Just when you think you have things figured out.....
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Thanks. I talked to nurse practitioner who is friends with my wife. She said a lot of people have elevated ANA values without it being any serious autoimmune issue so if I'm either worried or looking for some solution to my insomnia from my rheumatologist, that I may not find the answer. Still a very good chance my insomnia is benzo wd related I think is probably the take away.
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Anything may be possible, but I would venture to say that it is not probable that an autoimmune disease is responsible for your insomnia, especially so soon after getting off benzos. I have an autoimmune disease that was with me before, during and after withdrawal. The only way it seems to impact my sleep is from joint stiffness at night. Just know that the only treatment options that a rheumatologist will offer involves some pretty nasty meds, many of which lower your ability to fight infections (COVID-19).

 

There is another public forum out there for folks with a particular autoimmune disease and a lot of posts on it are about dealing with the nasty side-effects of the prescribed medications. I for one had a bad experience when I allowed myself to be put on methotrexate and promptly developed a crippling UVA sensitivity that causes me to avoid direct exposure to sunlight (and I live in Hawaii). It has been 8 years since my last dose, but the problem persists although medically this is supposed to be impossible.

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I followed the Ashton Method on my valium taper. They recommended 1mg taper every 1 to 2 weeks from 10mg on down. I averaged about 1/2 mg every 4 or 5 days (I started my taper on about 8mg valium) so I was more to the middle or 1 week side of that recommended taper, but well within guidelines. It was a little rough at times but Ashton also said "..one never 'stabilises' on a given dose of benzodiazepine. The dose may be stable but withdrawal symptoms are not. It is better to grit one's teeth and continue the withdrawal. True recovery cannot really start until the drug is out of the system." I took that to heart and followed the program as presented. I don't feel I had any worse issues than others during the process and, until the insomnia at about 1-1/2 months, wasn't doing poorly. I do think benzo withdrawal "toxic sleep" is the main culprit for my insomnia but I clearly have something else at play. The last few weeks I've had significant joint and muscle pain and soreness. I think the autoimmune angle is valid but not the entire answer. I certainly don't want to take any more meds. I've fought hard against my doctor's push to anti-depressants and I have a pretty jaded view of most medications. My insomnia, though, and very likely the persistent itching and tightness in my back that is also driving me bonkers, is probably the benzo wd.
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I followed the Ashton Method on my valium taper. They recommended 1mg taper every 1 to 2 weeks from 10mg on down. I averaged about 1/2 mg every 4 or 5 days (I started my taper on about 8mg valium) so I was more to the middle or 1 week side of that recommended taper, but well within guidelines. It was a little rough at times but Ashton also said "..one never 'stabilises' on a given dose of benzodiazepine. The dose may be stable but withdrawal symptoms are not. It is better to grit one's teeth and continue the withdrawal. True recovery cannot really start until the drug is out of the system." I took that to heart and followed the program as presented. I don't feel I had any worse issues than others during the process and, until the insomnia at about 1-1/2 months, wasn't doing poorly. I do think benzo withdrawal "toxic sleep" is the main culprit for my insomnia but I clearly have something else at play. The last few weeks I've had significant joint and muscle pain and soreness. I think the autoimmune angle is valid but not the entire answer. I certainly don't want to take any more meds. I've fought hard against my doctor's push to anti-depressants and I have a pretty jaded view of most medications. My insomnia, though, and very likely the persistent itching and tightness in my back that is also driving me bonkers, is probably the benzo wd.

 

You read that wrong.  Ashton says 5-10% of your current dose every 2 weeks or so.

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What do people think of Ambien as needed for vocations?...I have a family vocation In late July. I'm afraid It will ruin all my progress. Do you think using Ambien for a few nights, then stopping after the vocation or up dosing the Benzo for a few nights Is better? 
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Personally I wouldn't do either.  It's like asking how much "rat poison" you should add to your oatmeal in the morning.  Ambien is a Z class drug that works very much like a Benzo.  I wouldn't take anything.  Benzos and Ambien are a dead end road. 

 

Your sleep will return after you are completely off of everything and updosing most likely will not help either?  It never worked for me after I reached tolerance.  I took 10mg of Ambien for a few nights right before I did my CT and I barely got an hour of sleep.

 

Rx drugs are never the answer for sleep IMO, but if you absolutely think you need to take something I would try low dose seroquel...maybe 25 - 50mg?  That seems to work well for most people and a few nights of that shouldn't affect your progress?  You decide what is best for you though.  Good luck and don't fret too much about sleep or it will ruin your vacation!  Just sayin!

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I had a family vacation scheduled and paid for just before I got hit by the worst part of my withdrawal insomnia. I considered not going, but figured that if I was going to not sleep either at home or while on vacation, I might as well be on vacation and enjoy a change of scenery. The vacation ended up pretty good although I had zero sleep the night before leaving and I was often in a haze while away, but I look back at that vacation with nothing but good memories.
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Thanks folks, I agree this Ambien and benzo is a dead end, but I overthink sometimes. Ambien was a nightmare for me when I used too take It regularly. Worse than Valium in my case. Last night I had a set back. I Was up at 3AM and needed too get up for work at 6. Took some extra benzo that I shouldn't have. Tonight get back on track Is my focus. Hope everyone Is ok, and let's be supportive of each other. In our daily lives we get very little support from people.
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I followed the Ashton Method on my valium taper. They recommended 1mg taper every 1 to 2 weeks from 10mg on down. I averaged about 1/2 mg every 4 or 5 days (I started my taper on about 8mg valium) so I was more to the middle or 1 week side of that recommended taper, but well within guidelines. It was a little rough at times but Ashton also said "..one never 'stabilises' on a given dose of benzodiazepine. The dose may be stable but withdrawal symptoms are not. It is better to grit one's teeth and continue the withdrawal. True recovery cannot really start until the drug is out of the system." I took that to heart and followed the program as presented. I don't feel I had any worse issues than others during the process and, until the insomnia at about 1-1/2 months, wasn't doing poorly. I do think benzo withdrawal "toxic sleep" is the main culprit for my insomnia but I clearly have something else at play. The last few weeks I've had significant joint and muscle pain and soreness. I think the autoimmune angle is valid but not the entire answer. I certainly don't want to take any more meds. I've fought hard against my doctor's push to anti-depressants and I have a pretty jaded view of most medications. My insomnia, though, and very likely the persistent itching and tightness in my back that is also driving me bonkers, is probably the benzo wd.

 

You read that wrong.  Ashton says 5-10% of your current dose every 2 weeks or so.

Not to gang up but I agree that this is a fast taper. I wouldn't have been able to do it half as quickly as that even if I wanted.

 

Just wanted to emphasise the positive in this. With a taper this fast, this is remarkable progress. I think many of us here would be doing a lot worse. By the manual, it is too fast, but the symptoms as described are not as severe as some people who go slowly. People have worse symptoms than that and make full recoveries... there's no reason to be alarmed.

 

It might not be the best news but this could go on for a little while longer. It sucks but again, it's normal. You might improve before it flares up again. It could happen a handful of times and that is normal too. It might be something that doesn't clear up fully until a couple of years from now, although it is highly unlikely that it will be as bad as this. Gradual improvement is sometimes imperceivable but when you are able to look back at 6, 12, 18 months out you will notice the difference.

 

It's so much better to be aware of the potential ups and downs and the length of time it might take so that you can make an informed choice about whether this is a problem that needs intervention. Medical professionals are extremely unlikely to identify a post acute withdrawal symptom several months after you took a benzo as the culprit. They may even state categorically that it can't be the case, which is completely inaccurate. If you go for another med, you might "fix" a problem that will most likely correct itself and possibly quite soon. But the other med might put you through something similar to this in the future and is rarely worth it unless your life is unbearable.

 

Best of luck. You're doing really well.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I followed the Ashton Method on my valium taper. They recommended 1mg taper every 1 to 2 weeks from 10mg on down. I averaged about 1/2 mg every 4 or 5 days (I started my taper on about 8mg valium) so I was more to the middle or 1 week side of that recommended taper, but well within guidelines. It was a little rough at times but Ashton also said "..one never 'stabilises' on a given dose of benzodiazepine. The dose may be stable but withdrawal symptoms are not. It is better to grit one's teeth and continue the withdrawal. True recovery cannot really start until the drug is out of the system." I took that to heart and followed the program as presented. I don't feel I had any worse issues than others during the process and, until the insomnia at about 1-1/2 months, wasn't doing poorly. I do think benzo withdrawal "toxic sleep" is the main culprit for my insomnia but I clearly have something else at play. The last few weeks I've had significant joint and muscle pain and soreness. I think the autoimmune angle is valid but not the entire answer. I certainly don't want to take any more meds. I've fought hard against my doctor's push to anti-depressants and I have a pretty jaded view of most medications. My insomnia, though, and very likely the persistent itching and tightness in my back that is also driving me bonkers, is probably the benzo wd.

 

You read that wrong.  Ashton says 5-10% of your current dose every 2 weeks or so.

 

Chapter II - Slow Withdrawal Schedules; Schedule 3 in the Ashton Method shows a tapering of 1mg of Diazepam every 1-2 weeks starting at Stage 26. That is what I followed in theory (instead of 1mg every 7 to 14 days I did 1/2mg every 4 to 5). I looked at other schedules in that section and when you hit 10mg of Diazepam they all refer you back to that point. I assume I was looking at the right Ashton method document. I'm not saying you are wrong by any means. That is just where I got my schedule from. Perhaps we are looking in different areas or I'm looking at some other document. Maybe I'm looking at an old or different Ashton document. I will admit I've made a lot of missteps and this may be another. And I also admit that I did push that schedule to the short end. Be that as it may, I'm free now and can only look forward. I don't feel like I tapered too fast and, even though I am having some sleep issues, I know it could be far worse. I never expected to not experience residual discomfort after my last dose. I know these things can linger. I do agree with your assessment that my issues are "toxic sleep" problems from benzo withdrawal and not something else. I appreciate everyone's feedback. I do feel very fortunate in many ways. I've read many of the stories on here and my journey has pretty uneventful in the grand scheme of things. Thanks again to all!

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