Alcoholism versus benzo dependency

So I was randomly sitting here thinking to myself, how is alcoholism bad if benzo dependency isn't? Aren't they the same thing? What I mean by that is your Gaba receptors are impacted and so is your glutamate.

 

So if somebody is an alcoholic, they are constantly altering their gaba chemicals and glutamate levels. They do it non-stop which isn't very good. I would think it's the same thing as taking benzos long-term.

 

I know that one has a stigma to it, and the other one doesn't. One is FDA-approved and the other one isn't. But does that mean alcohol is worse? Yes I know it comes with GI problems and it is a toxic chemical, but do we know that benzodiazepines are not?

 

I see people getting judged for being alcoholics all the time, as if alcohol is not legal. Like they are using some kind of street drug. But I don't really see how alcoholism is any different than physical dependency from benzodiazepines long-term. Even if it's prescribed.

 

I guess of course there's similarities and differences with everything, but either way you're altering your Gaba chemical in your body and your body's response to glutamate. So basically I would think it's the same thing and you shouldn't be doing it whether it's legal or not.

Who is making the claim that either one isn't bad?

 

I have personally experienced the benzo issue and I have witnessed alcoholism up close and personal with a friend of mine, and I wouldn't wish either one on anyone for any reason. They do share some things in common (both chemicals act on similar systems in the body and withdrawal symptoms can be similar) but these are two very separate and distinct issues.

If you want to beat yourself up and call yourself an addict then fine.

 

I was on Benzos for 20 years because I had a spinal injury and surgery and it caused terrible muscle rigidity and because I have hypermobility that causes my muscles to spasm.

 

In all that time I never once craved the benzo. I just took it twice a day as prescribed. Never updosed.

 

My father was an alcoholic. He ended up drinking whiskey for breakfast, eventually had a traumatic brain injury falling over one too many times.

 

There is a difference.

 

I will never call myself an addict because I took drugs a dr gave me.

 

My problem is that a physio told me I needed to stop taking them.

 

 

I've experienced both myself. In the past when I moved one time, I had not established the doctor yet, so ran out of benzos. I knew that they acted similarly, and I was having horrible withdrawal from the cold turkey, so I went to the liquor store and got some vodka. Started drinking vodka for a few weeks to get rid of the symptoms and it worked and I didn't have much of a problem getting it down. But then after a little while, I became bloated feeling and nauseous and just wasn't taking care of myself but wasn't even realizing it.

 

So then I just kept drinking all day everyday for almost four months. Not even thinking about the fact that I was ruining myself. At the time I didn't have anything to lose in the first place is how I thought, it's a long story, so I just pushed my boundaries.

 

I kept digging myself deeper and deeper. I must have started going through about a fifth of vodka per day or more. It was just barely enough to get rid of the withdrawal symptoms from the benzos. It was a nasty combination. And then I started to absolutely hate the vodka but couldn't quit because then I had to deal with alcohol withdrawal and benzo withdrawal simultaneously.

 

I hated both of them. But because of the physical dependence do it, I kept going. Well after a while, a few months later, I had blacked out. I was at a friend's house, and my body had just given out on me. It wasn't like I was just drunk or whatever slurring my speech, my body literally gave out. I think it was too much stress on the body.

 

Whenever the EMS got there, I had blown up .59 which is supposed to be fatal. They took me to the hospital and put me in the ICU for 8 days with a PICC line in my armpit. They had to give me Valium through an IV which obviously helped because I was in benzo withdrawal. And it took away a little bit of the alcohol withdrawal symptoms.

 

And then they gave me morphine and stomach pills and a few other things to get me better. It was the worst off I had ever been in my life. My liver enzyme levels were really high and kidney levels were high as well. It didn't really matter to me, I had just went through a really hard couple years trying to survive.

 

And then after the 8 days was up at the hospital, the doctor pulled me off of the Valium, so that's the second time I had to quit Valium in a year. So then I had even worse symptoms than the first time. I didn't want to drink Vodka again but I had to get rid of my symptoms because I felt like I was going to die.

 

So then I just tried drinking normal Coronas and not many of them and was hoping it would work. It just made me feel really sick and Bloated. It was hard to get them down. I hate alcohol with a passion but it was symptom relief.

 

And looking back at all of this, other than the nastiness of alcohol and blacking out and stuff, it's kind of similar in a way. People can't deal with the withdrawal, so they start taking pills again. Kind of like alcohol how people can't deal with alcohol withdrawal, so they have another drink. Yes I know there's huge differences in the two substances, but I guess Gaba drugs are just really bad.

 

So a couple months after the alcohol ordeal my neurologist put me back on the meds. Klonopin this time.

 

And on this cold turkey from Klonopin, I actually called my doctor's office and requested off of the Klonopin which I don't know was a great idea now but after 10 months off of them I'm not going back. All Gaba drugs are absolutely horrible. I don't wish it on my worst enemy.

Hi Justin...wondered if you wanted to start a blog...seems like you’re working through some stuff right now that would lend itself to blogging.  I did the same thing when I was going through the recovery process and found it cathartic and helpful. 

Just a thought...

Hi Justin...wondered if you wanted to start a blog...seems like you’re working through some stuff right now that would lend itself to blogging.  I did the same thing when I was going through the recovery process and found it cathartic and helpful. 

Just a thought...

Great Idea..!! A blog worked really well for me..

 

Maybe I should, it might help. Only problem is, Pamster likes to edit all my posts. Anything good that I typed, she likes to delete it or lock it for no reason at all other than she doesn't like me. I'm not even breaking any rules.

 

Like the other day I was talking about dependency versus addiction and she got all pissed off and decided to lock a conversation even though it's been talked about millions of times on here and she didn't lock anybody else's.

 

So imagine if I started talking about substance abuse and suicide and hating doctors and Psychiatry, imagine what she would say then. I don't have anything against her but I think she does against me so I will stay away from post with any life information.

Maybe I should, it might help. Only problem is, Pamster likes to edit all my posts. Anything good that I typed, she likes to delete it or lock it for no reason at all other than she doesn't like me. I'm not even breaking any rules.

 

Like the other day I was talking about dependency versus addiction and she got all pissed off and decided to lock a conversation even though it's been talked about millions of times on here and she didn't lock anybody else's.

 

So imagine if I started talking about substance abuse and suicide and hating doctors and Psychiatry, imagine what she would say then. I don't have anything against her but I think she does against me so I will stay away from post with any life information.

 

If you disagree with a moderation action please see our policy ''Disagreeing with a moderation decision' for further details on permitted methods of recourse.

 

Yeah I do disagree with it and I submitted a ticket. I feel like I'm talking to a patient advocate. You know those people that you contact and tell them what's wrong and they don't care? Yeah I feel like I'm talking to one of those when responding to you Pamster. You claim that you do things by the book but you don't. You just don't like being called a drug addict and you do anyting to not be called one including deleting members posts. Even if that means judging them.

Maybe I should, it might help. Only problem is, Pamster likes to edit all my posts. Anything good that I typed, she likes to delete it or lock it for no reason at all other than she doesn't like me. I'm not even breaking any rules.

 

Like the other day I was talking about dependency versus addiction and she got all pissed off and decided to lock a conversation even though it's been talked about millions of times on here and she didn't lock anybody else's.

 

So imagine if I started talking about substance abuse and suicide and hating doctors and Psychiatry, imagine what she would say then. I don't have anything against her but I think she does against me so I will stay away from post with any life information.

To be honest... I dont think I have ever seen the team AND the BB community ever be more tolerant than with you..!!

My guess would be that this stems from a much deeper understanding of discontinuation issues than what you are yet aware of...

I hope in time you will come to understand that the BB village works holistically at a far deeper level than one might find on a standard Face Book or whatever site... -But its a two way street also...

 

Lets move on in a supportive manner with less dictation...

 

Yeah you're probably right, I was making a fool out of myself. I've done it with everybody, family included. But I will try to never do that again. We are all in this together, I guess I just feel like everybody is out to get me sometimes but they're not.

 

Cold turkey was a really bad idea, and now I'm starting to learn these waves. Like when I get hit with these huge adrenaline and pressure spikes in my head, I don't think straight. I get really negative and defensive and feel like snapping at people. It's almost uncontrollable, almost.

 

And I didn't realize the barbiturate withdrawal was going to be so severe and I went cold turkey on that this morning, actually last night. That was the second time I've tried it. Along with the propanolol at the same time. It was pretty scary and I wasn't acting normal.

 

And I've just been hurting everybody close to me. I don't know how that works but it's true what they say. People that try to help me, I have been getting pissed at. So now I have to change my ways. Benzo buddies does help me and I don't get on Facebook or anyting for this very reason. I might say the wrong thing.

So I was randomly sitting here thinking to myself, how is alcoholism bad if benzo dependency isn't? Aren't they the same thing? What I mean by that is your Gaba receptors are impacted and so is your glutamate.

 

So if somebody is an alcoholic, they are constantly altering their gaba chemicals and glutamate levels. They do it non-stop which isn't very good. I would think it's the same thing as taking benzos long-term.

 

I know that one has a stigma to it, and the other one doesn't. One is FDA-approved and the other one isn't. But does that mean alcohol is worse? Yes I know it comes with GI problems and it is a toxic chemical, but do we know that benzodiazepines are not?

 

I see people getting judged for being alcoholics all the time, as if alcohol is not legal. Like they are using some kind of street drug. But I don't really see how alcoholism is any different than physical dependency from benzodiazepines long-term. Even if it's prescribed.

 

I guess of course there's similarities and differences with everything, but either way you're altering your Gaba chemical in your body and your body's response to glutamate. So basically I would think it's the same thing and you shouldn't be doing it whether it's legal or not.

 

True but the only bug in that theory is the drug it's-self.  Alcohol only has a 2 hour half life so being an alcoholic must be similar to taking many tiny doses of Ambien for several hours per night while trying to dance and party.  It figures, people do really stupid stuff when on Ambien or drunk on booze don't they?  The half life of Ambien and alcohol are both about 2 hours ea.  1mg of Ambien is equal too 44.36ml Alcohol (@100 proof)  The average dose of Ambien is 10mg so that's about 8.8 shots of strong Vodka. 

I wonder if a person would act drunk if they took 2 or 3mg Ambien over a 3 hour long period.  That would give you your answer.

8 shots of vodka is a lot stronger than Ambien, and it's different. I don't know exactly how but it is because I've taken both in my life several times.

The main thing about consuming any chemical is many people don't care as long as you can "control it"

 

The optics of a needle in your arm or snorting powder is not ok with most people but if they didnt see it, and one is still functional and has it under control, i noticed a lot of people really dont care.

 

If i can control my liquor, people usually really like me. its actually why i have kept drinking for so long is it is the only way for me to connect with people. But when it gets out of hand, im a mess (even more so since i started taking benzos) then i dont hear from people. I have lost countless friends from taking benzos at bedtime after drinking. it just doesnt put me to sleep and i end up doing stupid stuff that no one ever explains to me. they just ghost me. I wish someone explained to me so i knew but its far too easy for people to ghost people than to talk it out.

 

I had a friend, the spouse had been struggling with bipolar, medication, violent behavior, and extreme depression. i wasnt there but they apparently got into a physical altercation months before we met up. while on vacay we talked meds and i mentioned to be careful with them because i felt i was benzos were giving me depression and making me worse. trying to look out for the spouse as i heard they were struggling. despite the spouse's struggles, they were both surprisingly taken back and weirded out. then i drank and took some benzos to sleep and was blacked out for half the trip. even after we tried to talk about it afterwards, i never heard from them again. tried to explain what happened and tried to apologize and was met with pushback or no response at all. so i got judged even though the spouse experienced similar issues but why?

 

maybe because i drank and should have known better? whereas the spouse experienced side effects from medication only? who knows, but my point is its mostly about having control over the chemical. once one loses control, people scatter like cockroaches.

Yeah that's what happens with drugs, people scatter. Everybody is like okay this person is out of control so I'm going to stay in my little world and do my own thing.

 

And then people hurt the ones closest to them, I don't know why but that's just what happens. It's always been that way with drugs and alcohol, either that or there's the people that steal and Rob.

 

And then there's the people that do harm, like physical harm. So a person's morals are really put to the test when they're taking drugs. Either they're going to stick to them self and just be verbally abusive, or they will steal stuff, or they will end up injuring somebody. Prescribed or not, drugs do that.

 

Luckily the worst thing I ever did was Act really stupid and somewhat verbally abusive when coming off of my medicine. I would get into arguments with my family and be really mean and so a day. But we had a lot of stuff to go over from the last few years. We had to get it all out on the table and tell each other what we felt. But luckily it brought us closer in the end.

very much agree.

 

I think one reason people hurt the people closest to them is partly due to the frequency of the interaction. the people they are closest with are the ones most likely to talk to, or see them, at their worst because they are in very frequent contact.

 

also, when everyone else has turned their back and one is still going through the motions, who do they vent to? the only ones left! who are usually family. and sometimes it doesnt come out at the right time or in the right way. Even though they are family they are also human and have their breaking points.

 

same page as far as worst i have done being that i was really mean and may have said mean things but never escalated beyond that. not saying its right but incredibly grateful things didn't end up worse. glad it brought you closer together in the end.

Yeah that plays a big part in it, trying to get your thoughts out to your family only for them not to realize what's going on and then get into it with them. And then seeing them all the time or talking to them all the time, makes them pissed all the time.

 

But I think with my family, they are starting to realize that it's only temporary and I'm just going through really hard times and venting and that I'm crazy half the time. Luckily they understand, I'm sure there's a lot of families that don't.

 

Also with my family, at first they thought it was just a drug addiction problem or that what the doctor says is always right, and now they're starting to realize that I'm right and I don't need these meds regardless of my diagnosis.

 

Basically they were under the assumption if I had a diagnosis, I had to have something to treat it. So benzos are weird in that aspect, in that we just stopped taking them and we will be fine anyways. So maybe we never needed them in the first place.

Alcohol has millions of other effects in addition to activating benzo receptors. For example, it causes liver fibrosis, which has nothing to do with benzo receptors and has probably more to do with adenosine receptors. That's why alcohol is different from beznos and can harm other organs besides the central nervous system.

I wonder:?

https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/can-party-drug-mdma-help-treat-alcoholism/

 

AND

 

https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/mdma-may-help-psychotherapists-to-treat-post-traumatic-stress-disorder-by-rewiring-patients-brains/

Interesting