Struggling . Please help.

Detox is a nightmare.  Given Valium and gamba pentin to detox from Suboxone.  Last Suboxone November 15, 2019.  Started 10mg  Valium 3 times daily at that time.  Tapered to 5 mg . April 1 started taper from 5mg. 2 1/2 weeks later was at 1.25 mg then jumped off.  Going crazy.  Less than 3 hours sleep nightly for past 10 days.  Anxiety, depression, morbid thoughts.  Dr says increase gaba pentin.  Side effects of that drug are similar to Valium. 

Hello Steven397, Welcome to BenzoBuddies!

 

I'm sorry to hear you were put on an addictive drug to get off of another addictive drug, it makes no sense to me but here you are.  We understand what you're feeling so the best thing you can do is reach out for support on the  Withdrawal Support (during your taper) board, it helps to be validated.

 

Have you read  The Ashton Manual, it's a great resource for understanding what the drug has done to us, chapter 3 lists our symptoms and why we feel them, that helped me.

 

Let us know how we can help you.

 

Pamster

Thanks Pam.  Not sure what to do.  T thought getting offSuboxone was  bad.  This is worse.  Sleep deprivation is my biggest enemy.  Today I thought I was heading for a mental breakdown.  Parker's info really helped.  Will read Maher. 

Questioned my dr back a few months ago about adding more drugs when I just wanted to be clean.  She told me to trust the process.  Seems the process isn't working. 

If your suffering is too much for you, would you consider reinstating to do a slower taper?  We recommend only cutting your dose by about 5-10% every week to 10 days.  Reinstatement might not relieve your symptoms, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't and you're left with another taper but no real relief.

 

I quit cold turkey and your taper is so rapid you're pretty much experiencing the same thing.  As for the Gabapentin, it's another drug which will need to be tapered so use caution.  Some say it really helps them, others not so much, we just never know how we're going to react to anything, including supplements so again, do your homework before adding anything to your already sensitized central nervous system.

 

Keep talking to us, we get it. 

Thanks so much for your reply.  I spoke to my Dr and she told me to work my way back up to 5MG and stay on the gabapentin.  She had also given me trazodone but trying to avoid it.  Getting more sleep (about 5 hours at most) with the increased dose of Valium, but depression , especially in the morning continues to be my biggest enemy.  I can't keep the dark thoughts away.  I have support from my parents, a good diet and try to exercise daily but still feel very low. I do have nausea, as well.  Now I'm worried that increasing the dose to 5MG has done very little and I will have to face a longer battle down the road.  Trying to keep positive.

Depression is pretty common with Valium, some members seem to adjust to the Valium and don't experience it anymore, others have to get off of it and switch to another benzo to find relief.  I'm glad your Dr understands the need to go back up and stabilize, how long have you been at the 5 mgs?

 

What you need to remember about the depression you're feeling is, it's not you, it's not real, it's the product of a drug so when you're free of what the drug did to you, you'll be free from the depression.  There are people in this world who feel this way every day of their lives, but this won't be you when you recover.

 

You mention Trazadone, is it to combat the depression since its an A/D or is it in the lower doses for sleep?

Hi Steven, Just want to welcome you as there are 1000s of people in your shoes subuxone and all. You are not alone.

I feel were on a tight wire balancing all these drugs while trying to get off them.  The point is we are getting off of them! You are smart enough to realize you want your old self back and getting off drugs is the first step. No one told us how much it sucked. I'm guessing from subuxone you've been on opiods. That is just a fun he*ll for 7 days to get off. The "legal" drugs of Benzos take a lot longer.  mmmmm...

Anyway, welcome to the first start to freedom. Just a taste but its awesome to know there are people who have overcome worse and are still breathing!

Hi welcome!

 

Sorry you're in the thick of it. All your side effects are normal.

 

In my opinion, try not to add anything med wise. Its just one more thing for your body to adapt to and that you'll want to get off of eventually.

Sleep deprivation is common when reducing benzos, but it does eventually come back. I'm always amazed at how people function with sleep deprivation but they do!

 

Read Success Stories. Very inspiring on the rough days to hear others successes:).

Thanks everyone.  Needed validation that I'm not alone. Have been back up to 5mg for 5 days.  Dr is supposed to call tonight.  Sleep is marginally improved. Feel much better in the evening but mornings and afternoons are bad.  I have tried taking 1/2 dose twice daily but doesn't seem to change anything.  The last few days I took the entire 5 mg around 1pm.  Will see what today brings.  I'm afraid Dr will suggest an antidepressant.  Want to avoid any more chemicals.  Given up caffeine and trying to avoid sugar.  Walk daily. Trying to reach out to a higher power but he/she doesn't seem to be listening at the moment.  Used to belong to a gym, but even if they were open don't think I could go.  Thanks again. 

 

It sounds like the Valium is kicking in, it takes a bit longer than the shorter acting drugs but it looks like you've improved slightly.  Antidepressants can be helpful if you're already established on one but adding it into the mix is risky since it generally takes about 6 weeks to reach full effect and in the meantime you're dealing with side effects you don't know if they're attributable to the benzo or the A/D.

 

I hope you can become somewhat stable on the 5 mgs, stable doesn't mean you feel great, it means you feel you can face a reduction without panicking. I hope your Dr will support a slow taper, the rate at which you reduced last time was too fast for you.  I have a question and forgive me if you feel it's inappropriate, do you think given your history (not sure why you were on Suboxone) that you can taper?  I'm recovering and even though I didn't know the drug had to be tapered, I'm not sure I could have.  I'm just concerned about the dilemma you may be facing.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your reply.  I had a neck injury and was prescribed Oxycontin.  Became addicted. Went to detox where they prescribed Suboxone to withdraw and assured me it wasn't addictive.(ha. Ha.) was on Suboxone for 6 years.  At first it was great. Gradually I realized the drug was was turning me into a Zombie.  Tried 2ce to detox without success.  The 3rd time I was prescribed a cocktail of drugs including 150- 5 mg Valium and gaba pentin.  So happy to be off Suboxone (last dose November 15/2019.). Never really given a lot of info on Valium.  Perhaps partly my fault because I just wanted to believe I could be drug free.  My Dr went on a leave of absence for 3 months so I was left mostly on my own to deal with all this.  In January, was feeling pretty good so decided to stop the Valium .  Bad move.  After 7 days off Valium had extreme urge to drink alcohol. Went on a binge and soon started taking the Valium again.  I felt like a complete failure letting down family and friends.  Dr returned from leave and reluctantly prescribed more Valium since I had planned on taking a long anticipated vacation.  Had to cut my trip short because of Covid -19.  Nightmare trying to get home  with airlines cancelling flights.  Home finally March 19.  That's when I started my 1 month taper.  Dr prescribed 5 mg Citralapram and told me to increase dose to 10 mg in a week.  Had a terrible amphetamine reaction and all withdrawal symptoms got unbearable. I stopped the citralapram but increased the Valium up to 7.5 mg for 1 day, after having reduced it to 2.5 mg during my taper.  Still no real direction so back to the suggested taper from the Dr which was too fast.  Was completely off Valium again for a week.  Had a total breakdown. ( anxiety, lack of sleep , nausea , crying fits, no energy).  So now back on 5 mg and hoping to stabilize before trying a very slow taper.  Symptoms are somewhat mitigated.  I'm fearful, but am determined to move forward again. 

Hi Steven, Just checking in to see how you are doing. I apologize if I overstepped with guessing about the opiods. Just trying to stay positive as it can be done. I'm not a moderator just a long time sufferer like yourself. If I dont interject humor into this not- funny- at- all- situation i will go mad. I STARTED WRITING THIS BEFORE YOUR LAST POST. It's been edited.

I have been on Subuxone. I found only using it for a very short time 2-4 days and then quitting worked the best for me. I do not know how long you have been on it or how much. I am so glad you stopped taking it. Good job! Others often dont realize how tough it is. My nausea waned after a month and was completely gone in two but that was 15 years ago before the horrid Klonopin.  6 years on subuxone. That is a rough drug to come off of long term. Worse than the pills.

My best suggestions are distraction ( I like jig saw puzzles and walks with my husband if I can get out of bed.) Also, I found, if you get hungry only eat small meals. 6-8 tiny meals a day. Exercise is the best thing, but I blew out a tire (my achilles) and haven't been able to cardio in over a year. Just started walking. 

We sound like peas in a pod. I c/t off Klonopin and day 10 I left work and was chugging Vodka in my car on the way to the pharmacists. I thought I was dying and never had craved alcohol like that.

It's such a blessing you have the support of family and friends. The more support the better I say.

Anyway, I digress, I figure if I can stop the pain pills, alcohol, smoking, and subuxone then the benzos can be done too. I tried to taper way to fast, thinking it was just like the other stuff I have quit before and the moderators helped me realize I needed to slow down and talk to my Doctor about stabilizing for awhile. So I am in a holding pattern at .5K With all the dizziness it feels like I'm flying anyway. LOl Welcome to a bizarre mixture of The Wizard of Oz meets Alice in Wonderland. The flying monkies are not real, I assure you. The Cheshire cat ate them.

  Ok I'll let the pros take it from here. Good luck on your taper! -Killianne

Thanks for your reply.  I had a neck injury and was prescribed Oxycontin.  Became addicted. Went to detox where they prescribed Suboxone to withdraw and assured me it wasn't addictive.(ha. Ha.) was on Suboxone for 6 years.  At first it was great. Gradually I realized the drug was was turning me into a Zombie.  Tried 2ce to detox without success.  The 3rd time I was prescribed a cocktail of drugs including 150- 5 mg Valium and gaba pentin.  So happy to be off Suboxone (last dose November 15/2019.). Never really given a lot of info on Valium.  Perhaps partly my fault because I just wanted to believe I could be drug free.  My Dr went on a leave of absence for 3 months so I was left mostly on my own to deal with all this.  In January, was feeling pretty good so decided to stop the Valium .  Bad move.  After 7 days off Valium had extreme urge to drink alcohol. Went on a binge and soon started taking the Valium again.  I felt like a complete failure letting down family and friends.  Dr returned from leave and reluctantly prescribed more Valium since I had planned on taking a long anticipated vacation.  Had to cut my trip short because of Covid -19.  Nightmare trying to get home  with airlines cancelling flights.  Home finally March 19.  That's when I started my 1 month taper.  Dr prescribed 5 mg Citralapram and told me to increase dose to 10 mg in a week.  Had a terrible amphetamine reaction and all withdrawal symptoms got unbearable. I stopped the citralapram but increased the Valium up to 7.5 mg for 1 day, after having reduced it to 2.5 mg during my taper.  Still no real direction so back to the suggested taper from the Dr which was too fast.  Was completely off Valium again for a week.  Had a total breakdown. ( anxiety, lack of sleep , nausea , crying fits, no energy).  So now back on 5 mg and hoping to stabilize before trying a very slow taper.  Symptoms are somewhat mitigated.  I'm fearful, but am determined to move forward again.

 

You've had a terrible time of it, I'm so sorry but thank you for not taking offense with my question.  You've definitely jumped from the frying pan into the fire with Valium, your Dr did you NO favors!

 

I have no doubt you'll be able to taper from the Valium, you have an amazing amount of determination and drive.  The first thing we need to do is get you stable and I'd sure try to avoid adding anymore medications into the mix, your central nervous system if super sensitive right now, I hope you can convince your Dr that adding anything else isn't going to help.  You might want to spend some time on the Other Medications board to see what our other members have to say about the various drugs they've been prescribed.

 

We typically suggest cutting your dose by about 5-10% every couple of weeks depending on your symptoms, we have to remain functional, this is the point of a taper.  We can help you figure this out when you feel you're stable.

 

One thing you should know, alcohol acts on the same part of the brain as benzo's do so I'm not surprised you craved it but it would be best to avoid it while you're tapering and well after you're off the drug.

 

Keep talking to us, we'll figure this out.

Thanks Pam.  Yesterday was a bit better.  Actually played a game of dominos last night.  Then little sleep and a difficult day.  Still hanging in. 

Good to hear yesterday was a little better, our symptoms come and go then come back again, sometimes morphing into others, it's awful how the healing is non-linear, we never know from one day to the next how we're going to feel. 

 

Do you feel like you might be stabilizing on the 5 mg? 

Hi Steven, Glad to hear you're back in the saddle.  A little bit of exercise goes a long way. Its the little things that keeps us going. Good job!

The crying fits are new to me but I am having them now. Not sure wheat thats all about. Sigh...... Fight the good fight Steven. Glad you are doing a bit better, A day at a time, a moment t a time, a little tiny bit at time. I'm watching one flew over the cuckoos nest. I dont want to be that guy.

Hang in there.-Killianne

Thanks.  Got about 5 hours sleep last night.  Yeah!  Today I'm more functional .  Living at home now so no financial pressure and have access to good food.  I'm of the opinion that a good cry might be a positive thing.  Grieving people can't seem to cry.  When they finally do, they are on the path to recovery.  I've decided to avoid taking Valium at night.  I don't want to start mentally thinking I need it to sleep.  Yes.  One day at a time.  One flew over the cuckoos nest was always one of my favourites.  You're right. Don't want to be that guy. 

Steven

Still little sleep.  I dread the mornings because I feel so helpless and depressed.  Then in the evenings I feel somewhat better.  Hope this is a positive sign.  Still holding at 5mg.  Maybe should not have gone back up to 5mg because I don't feel a lot better. 

Hi Steven. I also dont feel like rainbows  are flying out my...nose. i know they say to stay positive on this forum but I sure dont feel it. Sorry. If you need smiles and unicorns and lucky charms I am not the person to listen too.

I feel like dog shit. My regular doctor has asked me to get an addiction specialists to help me get over the Klonopin. OOOOOOkkkk. Geeezz. I feel like I got dumped on prom night. But hey maybe they can help me taper better i left a couple messages this weekend to get back to me Monday. And dont worry, I was chipper and cheerleader happy in my messages. Uhg, I dont feel that way. Let you know if they have good tips.

I am so glad to hear you are sleeping better!! Good for you my friend! I seem to check out at 2am now and get up at 10am. I' trying to rewind my sleep meter to 10pm to 7am. What is you goal?

I am also glad you are doing better, are you? This just will suck til it stop sucking LOL  Good luck to you. Time is on our side. Going to sleep now, trying anyway. Like you giving it all I got.

 

Hey Man !

 

Like everyone here, I am sorry to hear you are struggling. However, I am glad you are on the right path.

 

Instead of praising or judging you, I will try to give you advice from my own experience. First I will let you know how I felt at the beginning of the detox / withdrawal ordeal:

  - surprised, since I had no idea what was happening to me ; I had no idea that "sleeping pills" (Valium) I was taking were addictive in such a way

  - scared beyond normal, as I didn't know if I would ever get better

  - impatient, as I expected "getting off the meds" to take no more than 3-4 weeks

  - dizzy, noxious, chills going down my spine, extremely anxious, terrible sleep, tinnitus, tingling in my fingers and toes, some kind of fatigue / sleepiness during the day, lost weight, couldn't say depressed but in a very dark place most of the time

 

What works for you is that you were on Valium for only a short period of time. What works against you is the other drugs you were on for a long time.

 

What worked for me ? First and foremost ACCEPTANCE. I believe that was the key. Many people here point out HOPE. Screw hope. Hope can only disappoint. If you accept that this is your life now you will be able to live it. Easier said than done, I know, but once I accepted that this is going to be a long process I was on my way to a better place.

 

Our paths are not going to be the same, I believe, as, unlike you, I used Valium for a longer period of time (2-3 years). Smaller dose (5 mg once daily) but for a long time. However, like in your case, my PCP had no idea about tapering and withdrawal so I got off it very quickly, managed for a couple of months and had to reinstate once it all broke down as I had a big setback. Reinstating never got me back to normal (who knows what normal is any more) but it became manageable. Six months after I reinstated I started a slow taper. First at 15% every two weeks, than slower and finally a bit faster toward the end. I had ups and downs during the taper but never felt terribly worse than during the six months while I was on it again. On the contrary, I can say that I probably felt a little better with each week and month that passed by. I jumped on 2/2/2020 after a 4 month taper and I am feeling OK. There are still some lingering issues but generally I am feeling OK.

 

What I did to make it through:

  1. working out ; I am a passionate crossfitter (I am not good at it, I just love it  ) and no matter how bad I felt I never allowed more than 2-3 days without exercising ; tried to exercise 3-4 times per week, and I mean really exercise where you cannot breathe, that's how tired I would be

  2. seeing a psychiatrist helped as he thought me how to deal with my new reality; for example, he asked me what it was that I couldn't do; not what I didn't feel good doing (as I never felt good) but what I couldn't do ; the reality was: I could do everything, I just felt awful ; that was a big confidence booster

  3. started meditating ; practicing to listen to your thoughts will help you realize that the feelings you have and what you think is depression is just thoughts and not your reality ; your thoughts are lying to you many times, they take you down the wrong path and once you learn how to recognize that you can escape them and live better ; I still meditate almost every day

  4. I stopped checking the clock during the night ; once you wake up in the middle of the night take it as a new norm ; don't get up, don't check the clock, ... just stay put, try to use meditation techniques to clear your head and go back to sleep ; after a while it will start working

  5. don't plan your day based on what you feel like doing but what needs to be done; let's face it, you are feeling crappy and you will for some time ; but life goes on; so, keep doing what you have to regardless of how you feel

 

I see you are back on Valium. Give it a couple of months (maybe more), until you feel strong enough to start reducing your dose and then back to tapering. This time do it slowly, bit by bit but don't stop. And remember, this is a process. Changes are so small you don't even notice. But when you look back 2, 3 or more months you will realize you had gone a long way.

 

Cheers!

 

 

Good luck!

Well, haven't posted in a while.  Talked to my doctor and a psychiatrist.  Both felt because of my depression and insomnia, I needed an antidepressant.  They suggested Remeron Mirtasapine.  I was reluctant after reading some posts, but desperate.  I started about 10 days ago with 7.5 and upped it after a week to 15 mg.  I am sleeping better and my mood is slightly elevated.  They both keep assuring me that 5 mg Valium is a very small dose and the gaba pentin won't cause too much in the way of withdrawal.  Now I think I'm stable at 5 mg Valium and am going to try and cut my pill in 5 pieces, reducing by 1 mg to see how it works.  The pharmacist says there's a shortage of 2 mg tablets, so have to work with the 5's.  Don't think I can cut them much smaller than fifths.  Trying to walk each day and think positively.  Hope I've made the right decision.  Thanks for listening.

Thanks for you kind response.  Guess you could say I had a bit of a setback.  Because of my depression and severe insomnia, both my doctor and a psychiatrist felt I should try a low dose antidepressant with few side effects.  i did some research, but I was desperate so I filled the prescription.  Remeron Mirtasapine.  Started at 5.5 mg and after a week in creased to 15 mg.  10 days in, I'm getting more sleep and my mood has improved somewhat.  I'm fearful of starting the taper, but have decided to try again.  Pharmacist says ther's a shortage of 2 mg Valium, so have to deal with splitting a 5mg pill.  Think I can cut it in fifths.  Plan to start in the next couple of days to reduce by 1 mg.  hope I can manage this time. 

I have a good diet.  Walk each day.  Am going to try some weight training.  Hard with the Covid -19 as as the gym I go to is closed.

I meditate. Do the winnHoff breathing exercises, and am listening to David Hawkins and others .  Will keep you up to date.  Any other thoughts are welcome. 

Hi Steven,

 

You are definitely not alone. You have been so strong in what you've endured already and that's impressive. If you can see my signature you will see I've had a mix of drugs along the way as well. I got off morphine first, then methadone and was on lyrica. Since there is some similarity in gabapentin and lyrica I have one odd suggestion that worked for me when I got off lyrica.

 

I started looking for help since I had started having bad effects from lyrica after 10 years of being on it. The sxs started after getting off methadone so there had to be a relationship. I expected to get off lyrica in a few weeks like methadone and morphine. The advice of 10% per week was not working. I had tapered to the lowest dose capsule 1x day and was OK but cutting 10% off that caused severe neuro sxs. I couldn't imagine doing that for 10 weeks. I went back to where I was comfortable and started increasing the time between the capsule by one hour each day. If I had any sxs I would hold for a day or two at that time frame. Of course I ended up having to set my alarm to take some doses and I was having insomnia and the jolts awake at times and hated to wake myself if I had managed to go to sleep but it was well worth it. I had almost no sxs of WD. I kept expecting things to fall apart but they never did. I actually went to 72 hours between doses before I dared to quit and I was good. I thought I had invented the wheel! When I needed to get off xanax I tried the same thing. Of course it was a big ol failure to do it that way, along with tapering another Rx of morhine. But it saved me from agony with lyrica and would be worth a try with gabapentin, when the time comes.

 

I was only on xanax for 4 months but had scrambled my brain with the other stuff, including a dumb failed CT off paxil use of 25 years so maybe it made my WD harder. I took 8 months to taper off my 4 months use and I have been off for 3 months. I still have some waves but I am SO much better. Slow was definitely the way to go for me. Best of luck with everything. You have a lot of people rooting for you here!!! 

Thanks for your welcome note and advice.  The Doctor doesn't want me to come off gaba pentin til I get off the benzos.  I'm taking 15 mg of remeron and finally getting some sleep.  Have really bad indigestion and feel constantly hungry.  I know weight gain is a side effect, but if I'm getting sleep and my mood improves, I'm not going to complain about a few extra pounds.  This time around I'm going to taper very slowly.  Reduced my dose to 4.5 Valium 3 days ago.  So far I'm ok, but know it has a very long 1/2 life.  Finally got some 2 mg tabs, so I can be more accurate when cutting the tabs.  Doctor wants me to drop .5 mg per week.  Hope that won't be too fast.  Keep well. Thanks again