Switch my taper?

Started on 2.5 mg Clonazepam. The doctor switched to 50 mg about 5 months ago. I’m currently on 16 mg of Valium, but the exhaustion and confusion is too much. I had it as well after the switch. Since I’m planning to go slower, I talked to my doctor about switching back to Clonazepam, but he wanted that I would decide to do it in a day or a few days “the cross” Can it be harmful? Or should i be ok? And if I’m still not doing well can I switch back to Valium?

 

Sorry for my English.

I’m not an expert on switch from one to other and back again.  I do know that it takes time for your brain to adjust to changes.  Your dr suggests wait and do the crossover slowly.  That’s a better idea than just switching.  Some people say they have problems when they crossover.  Not everyone prefers it.

 

Can you accept that tapering benzos doesn’t feel good?  There will be symptoms?  If you’re looking to be rid of symptoms, that may not be realistic. 

I decided not to crossover but to use taperstrips, currently more tired compared to a higher dose. Want to taper to zero in 90 days.

I'm not familiar with taper strips but I'm glad you made a decision, indecision can be very stressful which of course makes everything worse.  I don't have any experience with Valium, I wonder if it might be helpful if you posted on the dedicated Valium support thread to ask your questions.  Valium Support Group

 

I saw in your post on the introductions board that you're wondering how you're going to feel, if you're going too fast and what it will be like once you're off of the drug.  I wish I could answer your questions with any degree of certainty but I can't, each of us is different and each journey is as well.  I can tell you about the fear you're feeling, its so common to feel this way, and to be uncomfortable in social situations, it's all the drug.

 

You will most likely feel withdrawal symptoms as you taper and after you get off of the drug, your brain is still doing repair work at that time, so you should expect to still be uncomfortable.  A good thread for you to review would be this one about the four stages of withdrawal. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=156111.0

Hi Bms88

 

I have a few questions:

 

Started on 2.5 mg Clonazepam.

When did you start with Clonazepam? What was the reason behind that decision?

 

The doctor switched to 50 mg about 5 months ago. I’m currently on 16 mg of Valium

Did you feel symptoms while under Clonazepam and before the switch? Was the switch from Clonazepam to Valium immediate? Did you feel symptoms when you started with 50 mg Valium? How did you do to taper down to 16 mg from 50 mg of Valium during the 5 months?

 

I talked to my doctor about switching back to Clonazepam, but he wanted that I would decide to do it in a day or a few days “the cross”

Do you mean to try the crossover from Valium back to Clonazepam after 5 months of Valium use?

 

Thanks.

 

Hi Bms88

 

I have a few questions:

 

Started on 2.5 mg Clonazepam.

When did you start with Clonazepam? What was the reason behind that decision?

 

The doctor switched to 50 mg about 5 months ago. I’m currently on 16 mg of Valium

Did you feel symptoms while under Clonazepam and before the switch? Was the switch from Clonazepam to Valium immediate? Did you feel symptoms when you started with 50 mg Valium? How did you do to taper down to 16 mg from 50 mg of Valium during the 5 months?

 

I talked to my doctor about switching back to Clonazepam, but he wanted that I would decide to do it in a day or a few days “the cross”

Do you mean to try the crossover from Valium back to Clonazepam after 5 months of Valium use?

 

Thanks.

 

Used Clonazepam 1.5 mg for about 7 years or so about 2 years ago went up to 2.5 sometimes 3 mg. There was no crossover he just switched the 2.5 mg Clonazepam to 50 mg of Valium.

I felt instantly that Valium was not for me, I was told “ it all works the same but it’s easier to taper”

Just felt drunk and my energy was too high, was really feeling a “high” but a scary feeling. So I’m currently on 15 mg of diazepam. But I just can’t..

Had to do a CT scan they gave me a beta blocker, because my heart rate was really high. When the bètablocker started to kicked in, it was the worst feeling ever .. felt so strange. Thought I was going crazy.. They could not calm my drop my heart rate to below 80 with the beta blocker. they said afterwards it increased the effects of diazepam. But if these are the effects..

Did damage my CNS also with other substances in the past.. but this was so weird.

Maybe I just have to go cold turkey.. I can’t imagine using diazepam for four more months.. the depersonalization is getting worse. Talked to a few doctors they all same something different.. I trust the members here more.🤗

 

Hi Bms88

 

he just switched the 2.5 mg Clonazepam to 50 mg of Valium.

According to Ashton's Clonazepam is about 20 times more powerful than Diazepam. So the equivalent dose of Valium seems correct.

 

it all works the same but it’s easier to taper

Many buddies tapered Clonazepam directly without the crossover to Diazepam. On one thing opinions greatly diverge: is Diazepam easier to taper than Clonazepam? Many said yes. Others no. I'm personnally against it. I'm against the introduction in my body a new beast I don't know what it can do to me. But now you are already in the middle of it. In your shoes I won't go back again to Clonazepam. What if the 'old good friend' has changed meanwhile? Actually he has not but it is a certainty that your CNS has undergone a lot of changes after these 5 months. your CNS  has pedalled unrelentingly to restore its equilibrium after been forced to switch to another drug after years of use. It has changed since. What was good 5 months ago might result not so good if not painful now.

 

So I’m currently on 15 mg of diazepam

It is not a small quantity but there are buddies who took much more than that and came out healed. You can do it too.

 

Maybe I just have to go cold turkey.. I can’t imagine using diazepam for four more months.

Please don't! It may not happen to you but it has been reported of cases of seizures following cold turkey. As much as Diazepam is hurting you, please know that many buddies in here present unsettling symptoms while they are tapering. Establish yourself a planning to come out. When you have it and take the first reduced dose you are halfway out. Rough symptoms may arise along the bumpy road but you will keep strong knowing that there's a large community of more than 70'000 members behind you. You will heal.

 

If you want to get a rough idea on how a taper planning might look like, have a look here.

 

Wish you a smooth journey towards freedom.

 

Ok, thanx for your advise, but what I don’t get is that I did hold for a month at 17.5 mg and became more and more tired. Way more tired and sleepy than I was on a higher dose of diazepam, but maybe my adrenaline was too high that I could not be tired, also I ‘m so hyperactive and stressed. Since my last cut my cat even won’t sit with me longer than 5 minutes, and I’m thinking constantly the cat knows that I’m stressed. Also if I really listen to my body I could not do anything and would be sleepy all day.. Is it possible do get faster than 10% every 10 days because I really want to get it over with, think I have some adverse effects on Valium.

My doses are

2.5 mg at 9.00

2.5 mg at 11.00

5mg at 14.00

2.5 mg at 16.00

2 mg at 18.00

 

What is a good cut but not dangerous?

 

 

Hi Bms88

 

I did hold for a month at 17.5 mg and became more and more tired. Way more tired and sleepy than I was on a higher dose of diazepam

Besides the abrupt switch from 2.5mg of Clonazepam, you went from 50mg of Diazepam to 17.5mg in 5 months time. It's about a 6.5% reduction every 14 days. That is quite within the recommendation to reduce between 5-10% every 10-14 days.

 

As your symptoms do not seem to come from a too fast taper, there are a few points left: Can it be that

1. You are in withdrawal, when current dose of benzo is no longer sufficient for your craving body?

The fact that you feel more and more tired as you hold drives me to think that your CNS is trying to work hard to adapt its structure to the new situation where less benzo is made available. It can explain some of your symptoms.

 

2. You are taking too much benzo?

As Diazepam is known for its sedative effect, it must have in your case helped in decreasing your anxiety, stress, muscle ... It seems however to not suit your case as you talk about being constantly hyperactive and stressed. However when you are more and more tired and sleepy, that drives me to think about sedation.

 

3. You are allergic to Diazepam?

If you are allergic to diazepam or any of the other ingredients of this medicine you may have the following symptoms: rash, itching, difficulty of breathing or swelling of the face, lips, throat or tongue, blistered or peeling skin, wheezing, tightness in the chest or throat, trouble breathing or talking. You do not seem to have them though.

 

My personal feeling is that:

- you are NOT taking too much benzo as symptoms just increased while you hold

- you are NOT allergic to Diazepam

- likely you are suffering withdrawal

 

What to do then?

Is it possible do get faster than 10% every 10 days because I really want to get it over with

Let me ask you a question. What if you take the last benzo dose and during a period that may vary from months to years after that day your disabilitating symptoms are always there lingering like in many cases of protracted symptoms we have seen too frequently here? You are perhaps imagining that the last dose will fix all your symptoms. It will not. While everybody who taper wish to see the drug out of their organism in less time possible, quitting improperly can play against them. Remember that the last dose is just a symbolic milestone and nothing more. It does not mean that you are benzo free. It does not mean that you are healed. Long time after your last dose, your CNS continues to work hard to restore its equilibrium after been forced to live together with a drug for years. The taper should not be to get rid of the drug as soon as possible (otherwise a cold-turkey would be fine!) but ultimately be a matter of getting out of the drug while remaining functional in the daily life and overall with no protracted symptoms months/years after the last dose.

 

It's up to you to decide how to proceed. In your shoes, as you seem to never have a stable point to start to taper from, I would try to start anyway a micro taper. The quantity involved in the reduction would be so small, so tiny that I would be surprised you will feel any more symptoms than what you are feeling today. If you want to have a go, let me know and we can talk.

 

Meanwhile keep strong and cuddle your cat if it helps to relax