Vaccine moral dilemma

As of today I've cut myself off all news sources. It's not difficult.

 

However, I still get news from private mails and a friend working for an unnamed US drug company said their CEO announced a vaccine has been pretty much completed. Should be started for testing in September. But on who?

 

The problem with testing vaccines is finding volunteers. That's why they have to offer cash incentives.

 

China is also close to a vaccine. I envisage a few all being developed at roughly the same time.

 

Now a leading figure in CAR otherwise known as Congo has announced his people ready to be guinea pigs for testing on. Apparently, they tested the ebola vaccine on 90,000 people there.

 

How do you feel about that? I'm not sure I know how to feel. But personally I'd never do it myself.

More importantly - how does that story make you feel???  Are these emails from friends just a substitute for reading upsetting news on CNN?

 

As for your actual question...  I worry less about vaccine trials than I do about new AD drug trials.

 

I imagine the 'volunteers' who participate see this as a way to feed their families for a week (or a month) in return for a little prick in the shoulder.  The government probably sees it as a way to fund a few more bombs or tanks or another lavish painting in the presidential palace.

 

Basically sounds like business as usual in the world today.

It is upsetting and unethical if vaccines and other drugs are tested on ppl simply on the basis of their desperate poverty.

 

But we all know that poor people’s lives matter less that others. That has been the case for centuries...

 

It shouldn’t be so but it is.

 

Same with elderly and disabled ppl as Covid19 is making very clear.

 

In the U.K. disabled ppl have been told won’t be treated of get the virus and those who need nursing care at home for their existing conditions to remain alive are no longer receiving it.

 

 

 

That's a good reply Ajusta. It's awful how the weak and vulnerable are getting less care then they deserve in the current climate.

More importantly - how does that story make you feel???  Are these emails from friends just a substitute for reading upsetting news on CNN?

 

As for your actual question...  I worry less about vaccine trials than I do about new AD drug trials.

 

I imagine the 'volunteers' who participate see this as a way to feed their families for a week (or a month) in return for a little prick in the shoulder.  The government probably sees it as a way to fund a few more bombs or tanks or another lavish painting in the presidential palace.

 

Basically sounds like business as usual in the world today.

 

Hey boss

 

A vaccine ain't a lil prick in the shoulder if it sends the pricked one into a coma, which been known to happen. Or even worse.

 

Congo don't buy bombs. They don't got any planes to drop them from.

 

They buy arms for government troops, which include children (as young as 10 if they strong enough).

 

The gig with Congo is that they tested an ebola vaccine on 90,000 of their folk. No further details was disclosed.

 

A vaccine is a great thing if it works.

 

Teru

I didn't say it was fair.  I didn't say I approved.  What testing option would you condone?

That's funny boss lol If I'd of known you was a geopolitical expert I'd of become a fan yonx ago

 

Folk is real tetchy right now so a dude gotta be careful not to write any dumb shit

 

Well done for getting off K it's a beast

Bill Gates has just declared that coronavirus-vaccine testing should be started here in Africa. Two French doctors suggested the same thing in the media, but their statements were met with furious outcries from the public, as well as sharp criticism by the French embassy in South Africa.

 

I'll tell you this. Look at the maps, look at the numbers. The coronavirus is not spreading fast here in Africa, people are not dying here. Why? Much speculation, several factors perhaps: less processed food/GMOs, very little use of toxic medical drugs and vaccines in general, a younger population (although the 'old' folks don't seem to be dyin much here, either), less radiation (EMFs, etc.) -- all in all, a healthier bodily terrain, i.e. stronger immune response (despite the poverty). But, sure, the jury's still out....

 

We in Africa will NOT serve as guinea pigs for morally corrupt, profit-motivated First World 'leaders' and businessmen (or the sell-out 'leaders' among our own people). Since when is Mr Gates a scientist or physician? Many of us will resist vaccine trials (violently, if necessary) and will fight to preserve our right to do so. As Teru pointed out, if you had half a brain and did your homework, I mean truly did it, you'd know that 'a little prick' (excuse the pun, ha) isn't necessarily nearly as benign as you are told or believe.

 

Geez, no wonder the privileged 'First' World is not faring all that well right now. You wanna test your dumb shit? Do so on your own people. If they're ignorant enough to let you. Us third-world expendables are starting to see this exercise exactly for what it is. Une connerie du début à la fin...

 

Oh wow, Wildflower i so applaud this post, thank you.

Oh wow, Wildflower i so applaud this post, thank you.

 

Thank you, Southern Star.... So many blessings for your healing.

 

💗

[nobbc]Wildflower-

Thanks for your wonderful post!! I also have no intention of getting the vaccine, though they may try to make it mandatory.  I have absolutely no trust in the MSM, US govt, or the medical establishment.  I think there's another agenda going on:  https://www.globalresearch.ca/coronavirus-causes-effects-real-danger-agenda-id2020/5706153

#FilmYourHospital

Bill Gates Mass Vaccination & Global Governance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4Aps2NPe54

https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/04/08/corona-creating-illusion-of-pandemic-through-diagnostic-test/

Dr. Andrew Kaufman/Doctor explains the COVID deception.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=46&v=4sHqJaSZvHs&feature=emb_title[/nobbc]

 

Edit: disabled active links.

~Colin.

 

 

Wildflower-

Thanks for your wonderful post!! I also have no intention of getting the vaccine, though they may try to make it mandatory.  I have absolutely no trust in the MSM, US govt, or the medical establishment.  I think there's another agenda going on:  https://www.globalresearch.ca/coronavirus-causes-effects-real-danger-agenda-id2020/5706153

#FilmYourHospital

Bill Gates Mass Vaccination & Global Governance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4Aps2NPe54

https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/04/08/corona-creating-illusion-of-pandemic-through-diagnostic-test/

Dr. Andrew Kaufman/Doctor explains the COVID deception.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=46&v=4sHqJaSZvHs&feature=emb_title

 

Laura, thank you!

 

The virus pretext is being used to negate key Constitutional rights, in the US and elsewhere. For example: the right to assemble, the right to work and to earn a living, the right to use the roads (travel)...technically, this amounts to a state of marshal law.

 

The so-called 'police powers' doctrine came into being in the US about 125 years ago and still stands, even though it clearly violates the Constitution. It is the basis for forced medical treatment, such as forced vaccination. This is abhorrent: if a person cannot decide what will be done to his or her body, that person has no rights at all.

 

It is also the basis for restricting people from leaving a hospital, and electronically monitoring their movements within the hospital.

 

All this is without stating the scientific obvious: viruses mutate all the time (the common cold being an example -- hence no effective vaccine). That is their nature. Therefore, you can only try to vaccinate against 'last year's virus'.... Look at the flu vaccine: so successful that we never see cases anymore.  The only long-term solution lies in strengthening the immune response through nutrition, natural measures, etc. This approach was always supported by the medical profession -- until the medical-drug cartels really got going during the last century. Vaccines are BIG business. Just ask Mr Gates.

 

Your links are spot-on, Laura. Solid addition by Dr Kaufman. I fear for us all if more people don't open their eyes before it's too late. We are being lied to and manipulated into a state of fear (and mistrust of others), in order to get us to give up our human rights voluntarily -- and it's working.

 

Laura, I hope you and your sister are well. Take good care.

For my money, certain constitutional privileges (e.g. assembly) must take a back seat when inalienable rights (e.g. life) are threatened.  Done right, the interruption to 'normal' life can be fairly short.  But since some people want to make this a political (or a 5G) problem instead of dealing with it scientifically, I suspect this little virus will be around until a proper vaccine can be developed.

 

Yes, viruses mutate.  Yes, it's a bit of a guess which strains to include in a given year's flu virus vaccine.  So they include several strains to try to cover as much as possible.  And there's excellent evidence that it helps - even if the included strains (in the shot) miss the actual strain(s) that get out.  There's enough similarities among the various viral epitopes to help the body mount a significantly higher level of defense (compared with no protection).  I anxiously await the availability of a CV vaccine so I can more safely get back out with people. 

 

Nothing wrong with good immune health.  I hear elderberries are all the rage now.

For my money, certain constitutional privileges (e.g. assembly) must take a back seat when inalienable rights (e.g. life) are threatened.  Done right, the interruption to 'normal' life can be fairly short. But since some people want to make this a political (or a 5G) problem instead of dealing with it scientifically, I suspect this little virus will be around until a proper vaccine can be developed.

 

Yes, viruses mutate.  Yes, it's a bit of a guess which strains to include in a given year's flu virus vaccine.  So they include several strains to try to cover as much as possible.  And there's excellent evidence that it helps - even if the included strains (in the shot) miss the actual strain(s) that get out.  There's enough similarities among the various viral epitopes to help the body mount a significantly higher level of defense (compared with no protection).  I anxiously await the availability of a CV vaccine so I can more safely get back out with people. 

 

Nothing wrong with good immune health.  I hear elderberries are all the rage now.

 

First of all, I take it you live in a First World country. I don't. Where I live, many African people exist hand to mouth, depending on daily wages to feed their families. If a lock down lasts longer than, say, 3 weeks, they start starving. There is no access to bail-outs, welfare, unemployment insurance, or anything of that kind. You earn your daily bread, day by day, or you don't eat. That is what is happening here. Neither 'politics' nor 'science' puts food on the table in Africa.

 

As for science. Maybe you'd want to start by reading these articles, by a medical doctor, summarising the truth about the dangers of vaccination (mandatory and otherwise):

[nobbc]https://drlwilson.com/Articles/VACCINES.08.htm and

https://www.drlwilson.com/Articles/VACCINES-GRADY.HTM[/nobbc]

You'll read there numerous quotes from other medical doctors and scientists about their true findings regarding vaccination. You might want to pay careful attention to the science, the in-depth research, and the statistics.

Then maybe we can have an informed discussion.

 

I'm putting my money on elderberries...and real science -- not the bought-and-paid-for kind.

 

Edit: disabled active links.

~Colin.

I live where I live.  The virus doesn't discriminate by location.  It relies primarily on human-human contact (or near contact).  That's why assemblies are a bad idea right now.  Yes, people need to eat, and safe food distribution should be global priority #1.  Stopping the movement/spread should be priority #2.  Until this mess is controlled, there are no other priorities other than caring for (and isolating) those already stricken.

 

I earned my PhD doing molecular virology.  I cloned several viral genomes; sequenced two (back in the day where that took time).  I did protein chemistry (on viral capsids) before that.  I've had at least three virology classes in college and a course in epidemiology.  I ended up doing more on the chemistry side of the research world later in life, but my wife still works on viruses.  So I feel comfortable conversing scientifically about the topic.  I do worry that all of that education/experience might taint me from your perspective.

 

Sorry, but the conspiracy theory stuff doesn't work on me, and did you see the way the second guy spun biblical phrases to suit his purposes?  The misinformation out there is more scary than the damn virus.

Excellent posts, thank you Wildflower33. Its very scary times and I fear the virus is by far the least of our worries,  certainly the preposterous "cures" shall prove to be far worse than  the disease. Bill gates involvment and the rush to put out a vaccine and other experimental drugs is extremely unsettling, may god help us all. Common sense nowadays is being lamely labeled as conspiracy theories. Until they're not.

I wish everyone strength and peace.

Well Im thinking something is off for sure.. Social distancing doesn't seem to be the only agenda here...

1, No motorbike riding in the bush..??!! -all parks and forestry are closed, -even private timber plantations, so camping is out too, even in remote areas...

2, Forget sailing off in ones boat too, -waterways and boat ramps are closed.. This includes fishing and shore based activities (inc. dams)..

3, Dont even think about going hunting for food, -if you can get bullets that is..  they shut down all our armourers too..

 

I get that different demographics face different issues around the globe, but it seems odd that Australia’s wide open spaces are suddenly off limits..!!

 

Despite being high risk (no spleen), I wont be rushing out for vaxing, but that in part stems from prior personal experiences.. Im not saying a definite NO, but there will be much consideration given the matter before I stick my arm out...

But then, I dont live in a high rise in the middle of a big city either, nor work in a people dense environ..

 

Strength and well wishes to All..

 

 

"WEBCAST | COVID-19 and Africa: On-the-Ground Perspectives from Five African Countries"

 

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/event/webcast-covid-19-and-africa-ground-perspectives-five-african-countries

 

(about 1 1/2 hour webcast from earlier today)

For my money, certain constitutional privileges (e.g. assembly) must take a back seat when inalienable rights (e.g. life) are threatened.  Done right, the interruption to 'normal' life can be fairly short.

 

 

What about the lives that are lost due to the secondary effects of removing or suspending rights or privileges?

 

Suicides are already starting to spike, and this is only the beginning. If this drags on for more than a month or two the effects on the economy is going to be catastrophic (if it isn't already there).

 

Some people would love to simplify this into a lives vs the economy thing but it isn't nearly that simple. The economy is life. It isn't just about rich people trying to protect their millions, it's also about the average Joe trying to put food on the table and keeping a roof over his family's head. Take away his ability to provide for basic needs for him and his family and there are all sorts of downstream consequences, up to and including death.

 

But since some people want to make this a political (or a 5G) problem instead of dealing with it scientifically, I suspect this little virus will be around until a proper vaccine can be developed.

 

It isn't that some people want to make this political, it's that MANY people want to make this political, on both sides and everywhere in between. Add in the fact that much of the science itself is far from settled and it's easy to see that it isn't as simple as just following the science.

 

All I can say is that having been through this benzo nightmare pretty much everyone here should understand that it isn't just as simple as trusting what "the authorities" say. It's up to us as individuals to gather information and make informed decisions. Wherever there is the potential for people to gain money or power there is the potential for corruption. You can't rely on anyone to dictate what you should be doing when it comes to your health. You are the only one who truly cares about you.

Believe me when I say that I do NOT trust our (US) authorities, but that's not a conversation that is appropriate to this forum or it's rules.

 

I know it's difficult to be stuck at home.  We have a choice of letting people run free and spreading disease or keeping people inside as much as possible and containing this contagion.  The choice seems clear to me.  Again, it's imperative that we keep food coming along and that we don't take shelter away from people who are out of work due to this mess.  Those supplies/guarantees will have to come from government, and it's anybody's guess how well or poorly DC will be able to advance policies that are so brazenly socialistic.

 

I agree that many people want to make this political (not just a few).  Doesn't help solve the problem at hand.

We are a global community of organisms each with its own ways and means of survival. Regarding vaccines, first of all one or more vaccines for CoVid-19 have not even been fully developed and accepted. Secondly vaccines in general, once they have been developed and accepted, have existed and have been required by global travelers for decades or longer. People may be able to avoid vaccines if they wish to shelter in place their entire lives but, IMO if they wish to venture beyond the entrances to their homes they will be necessary.

For my money, certain constitutional privileges (e.g. assembly) must take a back seat when inalienable rights (e.g. life) are threatened.  Done right, the interruption to 'normal' life can be fairly short. But since some people want to make this a political (or a 5G) problem instead of dealing with it scientifically, I suspect this little virus will be around until a proper vaccine can be developed.

 

Yes, viruses mutate.  Yes, it's a bit of a guess which strains to include in a given year's flu virus vaccine.  So they include several strains to try to cover as much as possible.  And there's excellent evidence that it helps - even if the included strains (in the shot) miss the actual strain(s) that get out.  There's enough similarities among the various viral epitopes to help the body mount a significantly higher level of defense (compared with no protection).  I anxiously await the availability of a CV vaccine so I can more safely get back out with people. 

 

Nothing wrong with good immune health.  I hear elderberries are all the rage now.

 

First of all, I take it you live in a First World country. I don't. Where I live, many African people exist hand to mouth, depending on daily wages to feed their families. If a lock down lasts longer than, say, 3 weeks, they start starving. There is no access to bail-outs, welfare, unemployment insurance, or anything of that kind. You earn your daily bread, day by day, or you don't eat. That is what is happening here. Neither 'politics' nor 'science' puts food on the table in Africa.

 

As for science. Maybe you'd want to start by reading these articles, by a medical doctor, summarising the truth about the dangers of vaccination (mandatory and otherwise):

[nobbc]https://drlwilson.com/Articles/VACCINES.08.htm and

https://www.drlwilson.com/Articles/VACCINES-GRADY.HTM[/nobbc]

You'll read there numerous quotes from other medical doctors and scientists about their true findings regarding vaccination. You might want to pay careful attention to the science, the in-depth research, and the statistics.

Then maybe we can have an informed discussion.

 

I'm putting my money on elderberries...and real science -- not the bought-and-paid-for kind.

 

You will need to copy/paste the links from my post to your web browser.  Active links serve to enhance search engine ratings for the target webpages - obviously, I wish to avoid this.

 

Dr Lawrence Wilson is unhinged. Here's one of his peculiar writings about the correct kind of sex at his own website:

 

[nobbc]https://drlwilson.com/Articles/SEX.REGULAR.htm[/nobbc]

 

Wilson wrote a chapter, entailed The Case Against Medical Licensing for the book, The Dangers of Socialized Medicine by Thomas Szasz (yes, that Thomas Szasz).

 

[nobbc]https://www.amazon.com/Dangers-Socialized-Medicine-Sheldon-Richman-ebook/dp/B00BUVVVDS/

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Szasz#Relationship_to_Citizens_Commission_on_Human_Rights[/nobbc]

 

There are critiques of Wilson all over the web. He is not any kind of authority on anything. Please do not post links to materials originating from assorted quacks and snake oil salesmen.

 

Additionally, I note numerous disingenuous responses to BSR's comments regarding 'a prick in the shoulder'.

 

More importantly - how does that story make you feel???  Are these emails from friends just a substitute for reading upsetting news on CNN?

 

As for your actual question...  I worry less about vaccine trials than I do about new AD drug trials.

 

I imagine the 'volunteers' who participate see this as a way to feed their families for a week (or a month) in return for a little prick in the shoulder.  The government probably sees it as a way to fund a few more bombs or tanks or another lavish painting in the presidential palace.

 

Basically sounds like business as usual in the world today.

 

It is patently clear that BSR was describing how testing is sold to those of little means and how their governments are likely to sell out their own populations for weapons and self-enrichment.

 

Further, we do not allow conspiracy theory and/or anti-medicine/doctor content on this forum:

 

(active link) http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=73877.0

 

I am locking this thread. We do not allow for such misleading and - frankly - dangerous content at BB. Take it to facebook or Twitter. (But even those two sites are growing weary of such bollocks. You will - increasingly - need to go to the fringes of the Internet to discuss such nonsense).

 

Apologies to the OP, terua (and other members who have applied due seriousness to the topic). Please feel free to start the thread again. A note to other members: do not attempt to similarly derail a new topic on this matter, any similar topic, or promote such nonsense anywhere on this forum.

 

COVID-19 is a very serious matter. If you wish to discuss it at BB, you will need to treat it as such.

[nobbc]Wildflower-

Thanks for your wonderful post!! I also have no intention of getting the vaccine, though they may try to make it mandatory.  I have absolutely no trust in the MSM, US govt, or the medical establishment.  I think there's another agenda going on:  https://www.globalresearch.ca/coronavirus-causes-effects-real-danger-agenda-id2020/5706153

#FilmYourHospital

Bill Gates Mass Vaccination & Global Governance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4Aps2NPe54

https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/04/08/corona-creating-illusion-of-pandemic-through-diagnostic-test/

Dr. Andrew Kaufman/Doctor explains the COVID deception.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=46&v=4sHqJaSZvHs&feature=emb_title[/nobbc]

 

More nonsense, I see. I've disabled the links above and in the original.