Difference in taste the lower your mixture gets

Curious if anyone else when tapering notices the lower their mixture gets , the less it tastes like alcohol. Could this mess with the ratio of medicine when you get to the bottom?

 

I’m currently at .040mg of klonopin doing a liquid taper.

 

I do (5) 1mg klonopin

20ml alcohol

30ml water

 

 

I just happen to notice every time I make the new mixture, that the alcohol taste definitely disappears the lower my mix is at and becomes much more apparent when i make the new batch. Because of this I psych myself out and end up holding for a few days when I start the new batch of liquid.

 

Are you not having so much alcohol as dose gets lower because amount taking is lower?

 

Or have you noticed any other taste changes?

 

My ability to taste things gets worse as get lower.

No I’ve always stuck with the same mixture which I believe is okay. 20ml alcohol 30ml water... but it seems with a brand new mixture I can taste the alcohol more.. once i get to the bottom half of my mixture it starts to taste “less alcoholy”.

 

Was kinda wondering if anyone else has noticed this.

Are you shaking it well? Alcohol and water don’t mix very well.

I agree with Ajusta. You should definitely shake your mixture before measuring your dose, but for a different reason than the one she gave.  When you add water to 40% vodka, you are effectively diluting the amount of alcohol in the resulting liquid.  This decreases the amount of active drug substance the liquid can dissolve.  So it’s possible (maybe even likely in the case of clonazepam) that the homemade liquid you are making is a suspension not a true solution. 

 

Unfortunately, the properties of these homemade liquids are largely unknown at this time. For example, to my knowledge, none of the homemade liquids for any of the benzodiazepines has been tested for stability (i.e. how much of the active drug substance is present in the liquid under specific, controlled conditions over time).

 

How do you store your homemade liquid?  In what type of container (glass/plastic, wide/narrow mouth)?  With what type of lid (e.g. airtight, leakproof)? Under what conditions (temperature, light)?  For how many days?  Might evaporation be a factor?

 

If I were you, I would make less homemade liquid at a time (e.g. one 1mg tablet, 2mLs of 40% vodka, and 8 — or 98 mLs if you find you need to make smaller reductions — of distilled water).

 

To close on a happy note, congratulations for reducing your dose to 0.04mg of clonazepam.  That’s a major accomplishment! 

So does that mean my taper is incorrect? I do usually find it a little strange whenever I make a new mixture. I currently use a glass container with a screw off lid. It just sits in my medicine cabinet so no real issues...

 

It’s strange because I actually feel better almost than when I take my dose . Like I will take it mid day sometime and it seems that mid day is when I experience more anxiety.. although I’m at a dose that really shouldn’t impact me... I’ve been functioning during this taper. Only a few times was it difficult. I was gonna taper down for 39 more days from .039.. but are you saying I may be taking in more or less of my current dose?

 

I currently dose with a 1ml syringe from a 50ml = 5mg jar.. So my dose of .39 should equal 0.39mg. how would I go about making a smaller mixture ? I’m debating at this point of jumping from the klonopin since I don’t believe im taking much as it is. This mixture I made would theoretically last me until my final dose. I can get approx 160 more doses. I wonder when I got lower in my mix I was doing larger amount of medicine and when I make my mixture I’m dropping more than I think? I dunno.. I’ve just found it to be more of a problem recently and unsure what I should do 

The “correct” taper is the one that works for you! 

 

For your consideration:

 

(1) Your homemade liquid may be becoming unstable over time.  If so, the longer you store and use it, the higher the likelihood you are getting inconsistent amounts of the active drug substance from dose to dose.

 

To address the above, you could make smaller batches of your homemade liquid. You also could prepare a new batch of your liquid every 5-7 days or whenever the taste or appearance of the liquid changes. For example, the following “recipe” would yield 10mL of a liquid with the same concentration you’ve been using (i.e. 0.1mg/1mL):

 

1mg of clonazepam + 2mL of 40% vodka + 8 mL of distilled water

 

Other ideas for your consideration: (a) find a glass container with an airtight/leakproof lid that is suitably sized for the amount of liquid you are preparing, (b) store the container away from light, heat, and moisture (and variations thereof), and © consider the liquid to be a suspension not a solution (i.e. shake the container/liquid well before quickly measuring the dose).

 

(2) You appear to have been reducing your dose by a fixed amount versus a fixed percentage.  Per the Jim Hawk Taper Tool, “The dark side of this approach is that by the end phase (~1/3) of the taper, many patients seem to become more vulnerable to the same reduction ... The reduction quantity must be therefore adapted when symptoms occur.”

 

There are several ways to address this. One would be to make your homemade liquid less concentrated. For example, the following “recipe” would yield a liquid with a concentration of 0.01mg/1mL:

 

1mg of clonazepam + 2mL of 40% vodka + 98mL distilled water

 

Sending all best wishes your way for a successful completion to your taper ... Libertas

 

PS The Jim Hawk Taper Tool suggests a quit (jump) does for clonazepam of 0.025mg.  You are nearing the finish line.

If I’m currently doing 5mg = 50ml... that makes 1mg = 10ml..

I dose .38 currently on 1ml syringe... that would make my dose .038mg..

 

So the solution you said of 2ml alcohol and 8ml water making 1mg = 10ml would be okay? I would be lowering how much alcohol I use, although I use probably more than I need in my mix.

 

I think that would give me the same .38ml dosing equal to .038mg..

 

Doing a mixture of 100ml seems like a lot when I currently do 50ml total. If I’m sticking with .001 reductions currently when I do drop (I hold often).. just trying to confirm I’m understanding what you are saying. Will try this method so I don’t have my medicine sit as long

The “recipe” for 1mg of clonazepam + 2mL of vodka + 8 mL uses the same ratio as the liquid you are currently making.  So, it yields the same concentration, 0.1mg/mL.  The only change is the volume of liquid you are making (from 50mL to 10mL). 

 

If you make less liquid, you will use it in less time (or to phrase it another way, you will make fresh batches on a more frequent basis).  The rationale for doing this is to decrease the possibility that your homemade liquid is degrading (losing potency) the longer you store/use it.

 

If you have a sufficient supply of clonazepam, you could just keep using the same “recipe” you’ve been using.  But instead of storing/using it for long periods, discard it after X days and make a new batch. (Because homemade liquids have not been tested for stability, we don’t know what number to use for “X.”  I recall a post from one member who observed changes in his homemade liquid after 5 days.)

 

The 100mL “recipe” yields a liquid with a lower concentration than the liquid you are currently making (0.01mg/mL versus your current 0.1mg/mL).  This would enable you to make smaller reductions in dose if needed.  Clonazepam is a potent benzodiazepine and you are in the last phase of your taper when it is not uncommon for members to discover they have to decrease their taper rate to keep withdrawal symptoms tolerable.

Awesome thank you. Yes since I’m at such a low dose of benzos.. I have so many pills to my disposals. I even missed a refill that expired. Always a good sign.

 

I will try making a new mix and if need be I’ll change to a smaller reduction if needed. Thank you

You are most welcome, Wowzers91.  Please do let us know how making a new batch of liquid works for you.  Also, if you are not already doing so, please consider (1) agitating your liquid before you measure out your dose and (2) storing your liquid away from moisture (humidity), heat, and light.

Just made it now, will keep you updated once I start tomorrow. My liquid definitely seemed off from the other times I made it so it was probably better to remake it and start fresh. I will make sure to store it optimally and mix up it up as well.

 

Only thing that stinks is my jar is 50ml. May have to buy a new jar

Good for you!  Have you decided how many days you are going to keep/use your liquid before you make a new batch? 

 

On June 1, 2019, the United States Pharmacopeia (USP) published updates about compounding nonsterile and sterile preparations, including updates to the beyond-use dates (BUDs).  Look below for details and a link to the fact sheet.

 

As you’ll read, the BUD for non-preserved, nonsterile compounds that include water is 14 days.  Assuming you are using non-pharmaceutical grade ingredients (i.e., off-the-shelf vodka and tap water) and probably do not have access to an ISO Class 5+ cleanroom , you might consider a shorter BUD for your homemade liquid. Perhaps 7 days or less if you notice changes in the appearance, taste, or effects of your liquid.

 

What are Beyond-Use Dates?

Beyond-use dates (BUDs) are the date or time after which a compounded sterile preparation (CSP) or compounded nonsterile preparation (CNSP) may not be stored or transported and are calculated from the date or time of compounding.

 

Why are Beyond-Use Dates Necessary?

BUDs help decrease the risks that may be posed to patients. A CSP’s or CNSP’s BUD identifies the time by which the preparation – once mixed – must be used before it is at risk for physical or chemical degradation, microbial contamination and proliferation, and impact on the integrity of the container-closure system. In other words, the BUD serves to alert healthcare workers to the time/ day after which a CSP or CNSP must not be used.

 

Source:

USP Compounding Standards and Beyond Use Dates (BUDs)

https://www.usp.org/sites/default/files/usp/document/our-work/compounding/usp-bud-factsheet.pdf

 

Thank you for the help. I have tapered down to about  .027mg of klonopin. I know my dosage is no longer therapeutic. I have been experiencing some anxiety. Some days worse than others. But I am getting through. I have been in a bit of a funk lately and I am not sure if I can attribute it to benzos or not. To be honest for most of my taper I have been functioning and working. Only in the beginning was it really demoralizing and I think it was because I was starting Prozac which I quickly got off of after  2 weeks.

 

I started a taper of .35mg almost a year ago. Which is insane to me. I don’t know how much I’m really doing, and wonder if I really made it worse for myself. I have decided to try jumping at this dose.  If I can stay in the circumstances I am feeling now I will be okay. In my life I seem to find crutches and reasons to why I sometimes feel the way I do. I am going to be talking with my therapist and begin my process of healing and living without benzos. I am 11 months no drinking and this is the next step.

 

I hope I continue to get better as days progress and will check in frequently. Any advice would be appreciated

You are welcome, Wowzers91.  Thank you so much for stopping by with an update.  You have learned and accomplished much during the past year and have a solid plan in place for moving bravely forward into the Land of the Benzo Free.  Congratulations and best wishes! Libertas