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Sry for my english. I am almost completely healed, but insomnia is getting worse since last summer, dropped to 3-4 hr  from 5-8.  I have sleep anxiety and i suppose its comletely rewired my brain. Cbt-i and sleep hygiene doesnt help , need something else to teach my brain how to sleep again, anyone have solution?
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No need to apologize, your English is great.

 

My therapist recommended listening to calming sleep hypnosis meditations.  I found lots of free ones on YouTube.  Search for sleep hypnosis or ASMR sleep.

 

I understand your pain as I have lots of trouble falling asleep.

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Hey Alextrup,

 

How long have you been off and what were you taking?

 

It's not uncommon to get hit by some late waves of poor sleep even after doing well for some time.  I got hit by a month long insomnia wave after sleeping 5-8 hours for 6 or 7 months in a row.  I had 4 zero nights and a bunch of 1 or 2 hour nights.  I got hit again at 32 months off after sleeping well for about 20 months.  It happens. 

 

So you never get more than 3-4 hours per night now?  Are you drinking alcohol or taking any other Rx drugs?

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Thanks for advices and support. I were taking phenazepam for 1 - 1.5 year when needed for insomnia , then 1 month daily , CT , very bad acute withdrawal with Extreme insomnia that led to sleep anxiety.  Later docs tried on me very short term courses and usually low doses of different antidepressants, neuroleptics, anticonvulsants ( possibly kindled) . nothing really helped.    When i realised that its benzo  withdrawal  i stopped my last drug ( depakote) and slowly healed to almost OK  Then i got scared that someday my symptoms will return and immideately got insomnia setback. .  It has been 1.5 years since last doze of benzo and 1 year since everything else. I dont drink , smoke or  take any pills.  Usually i sleep broken 3-4 hours but on rare occasion i sleep 5-6 hours of unrestful exteemely broken sleep full of nightmares and vivid dreams.
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Thanks for the update.

 

As I mentioned it could still very likely be Bezno WD at 18 months off.  I had very poor sleep episodes after sleeping well for months and months.  3-4 hours isn't great, but it's a lot better than zero or 1 or 2?  Try to be positive and thankful for any sleep you do get.  I know that doesn't really help and it won't make you sleep better, but the more you worry about sleep, the less likely you are going to get the amount you want?

 

I too went on Benzos for sleep issues.  After WD completely ends, there is good chance you will still have some sleep issues as healing from Benzos doesn't fix preexisting conditions.  But you will be in a much better position to cope with a poor night of sleep here and there.

 

IMO, I would give it more time and keep doing what you are doing by staying away from everything.

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Ok , i tried cbi-i again.  Sleep restriction helped immidiatley , i slept 5 hours for two days in a row. Then on third day i was very sleepy but afraid that i would not be able to fall asleep  so when i went to bed i got severe panic attack and my sleep drive was gone completely once again. I am absolutely sure its not withdrawal anymore. Its severe somniphobia.  I am obsessed with idea of getting good night sleep but at the same time when night come i am afraid to got to bed.  Everyday i checked how many time i sleep, time when i woke up and etc. I am obsessed with sleep hygiene. Its OCD like behaviour.  It fuels my anxiety. From today i will try to not give a damn about how many hours i sleep and everything else related to sleep. From today i will try to stop thinking about sleep at all.  I will give a update in a week.
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Ok , i tried cbi-i again.  Sleep restriction helped immidiatley , i slept 5 hours for two days in a row. Then on third day i was very sleepy but afraid that i would not be able to fall asleep  so when i went to bed i got severe panic attack and my sleep drive was gone completely once again. I am absolutely sure its not withdrawal anymore. Its severe somniphobia.  I am obsessed with idea of getting good night sleep but at the same time when night come i am afraid to got to bed.  Everyday i checked how many time i sleep, time when i woke up and etc. I am obsessed with sleep hygiene. Its OCD like behaviour.  It fuels my anxiety. From today i will try to not give a damn about how many hours i sleep and everything else related to sleep. From today i will try to stop thinking about sleep at all.  I will give a update in a week.

You seem to have anxiety induced insomnia.  Your anxiety is preventing your sleep.  I have this problem but I can now sleep doing all the things shown below.  It takes me about 10 hours in bed but I wake up with enough sleep and feel good.

 

Have you tried going to a psychologist instead of a psychiatrist?

Psychiatrists give pills.

A good psychologist might give alternative measures.

 

For anxiety, I do Meditation using Youtube videos right before bed.  I also daily take L'Theanine at bed.

 

Also, before bed and whenever I wake up at night, I take some simple things like Pyridoxal 5’-Phosphate, Zinc, Magnesium Glycinate, L'Theanine, Niacin, and Aspirin or Advil

 

For special nights when an event is happening the next day, I just take 1/4 of a Unisom or 1/2 bedadryl and drink Chamomile tea.  I only do this for emergencies. Like every 10 days or so.

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Thanks a lot for advice. I took supplements in my withdrawal withdrawal. Combination of    lavender , motherwort, magnesium, melissa .  Strong combibation, last day on it i got 7 hours of restful  sleep.  But then my last psychiatrist  said that its  very weak comb and u can ct and it would not affect your sleep. So i ct supplements and got bad setback followeed by 3 days without sleep  then got saved by 25 mg of seroquel. I suppose motherwort is gaba agonist, not sure about melissa. So i got kindled once again . After this i am scared of any supplements except vitamin d, i take  on very rare occasion  because i havent seen sun for months here in central Russia and my level of vitamin d is very very  low.  I attended several psychologists in moscow in past without any positive effect. 
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Interesting comment about vitamin D.

Here in Missouri USA, it is nearly spring and I have been getting more sun and I feel better.

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Got 5 hours of sleep for  few days except yesterday. Yesterday i tried to go to sleep earlier and force myself to fall asleep

  Biiiig mistake. My mind was clear but i got Almost no sleep and neverending adrenaline rush while lying  in bed becouse my brain have extremely strong association between anxiety and bed.  It seems the only way to deal with it is to wait when you start falling asleep sitting or standing and only then go to bed.  I dunno.  So from today i will never force myself to go to sleep.

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Got 5 hours of sleep for  few days except yesterday. Yesterday i tried to go to sleep earlier and force myself to fall asleep

  Biiiig mistake. My mind was clear but i got Almost no sleep and neverending adrenaline rush while lying  in bed becouse my brain have extremely strong association between anxiety and bed.  It seems the only way to deal with it is to wait when you start falling asleep sitting or standing and only then go to bed.  I dunno.  So from today i will never force myself to go to sleep.

When I get to what  you described, I watch this video, while in bed

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Alex

 

There’s no easy cure for this.  But, anxiety about sleep definitely won’t get you to sleep.  I think l theanine and magnesium are great sleep supplements.  And warm lavender baths.  Chamomile tea.  Beta brain wave meditations.  The bed isn’t your enemy.  Not sleeping won’t ruin you.  You’ll be tired.  That’s all.  And when you get tired enough, you’ll sleep.  Can you change the situation a bit?  Sleep on the couch?  Try to let the idea that you can’t sleep just go.  It’s a belief. 

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Alex

 

There’s no easy cure for this.  But, anxiety about sleep definitely won’t get you to sleep.  I think l theanine and magnesium are great sleep supplements.  And warm lavender baths.  Chamomile tea.  Beta brain wave meditations.  The bed isn’t your enemy.  Not sleeping won’t ruin you.  You’ll be tired.  That’s all.  And when you get tired enough, you’ll sleep.  Can you change the situation a bit?  Sleep on the couch?  Try to let the idea that you can’t sleep just go.  It’s a belief.

I agree with Healing64 on so many things:

    -L'Theanine is wonderful (to turn off the brain, in particular if you have ADHD)

    -Magnesium Glycinate is good too (but careful what type as some cause diarrhea but I have good luck with Glycinate types).

    -Get up out of bed and take a very hot bath

    -I also love Chamomile but I slowed down on it once my sleep got better in case it affects GABA (NO ONE REALLY KNOW FOR SURE).  But it works.  I took Chamomile Extract.  It really helped during the hardest part.

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thanks for many advices.  I have started  cbt-i once again. And this time i will try to go to the end.  Yesterday i felt asleep easily after very rough and extremely stressful day  , later  in my sleep i had extreme vivid dream and then got heart palpations, they were so extreme so i got pain afterwards inside my chest. I will report in a week . 
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Hey Bob and all

 

I’m tapering clonazepam.  I was on .5 once daily for 9 years a long time ago.  I tapered over 3 months with ease.  I was started due to terrible insomnia.  6 years later found myself back on .5.  For anxiety and insomnia.  Because I was deceived by the earlier easy taper, I accepted this med.  Now 24 months back in and tapering again.  Anyway...I cut 50 % , then 30 % and another 30% and now at .125.  Big cuts, long holds of 1 month, 1 month and this hold is 2 months.  I do NOT recommend these cuts.  I was ok but they are big.  Sleep was an issue and I dread insomnia.  But for anyone reading this post, it has not remained a problem!  I’m happy to say that I do sleep 7-9 hours a night!  Shocking but true.  I drink tart cherry juice with 1.5 mgs liquid melatonin in it.  The tart cherry knocks me out.  Ok, I also take gabapentin at night 300 mgs.  But I’m not so sure that’s the main thing.  If I were you all, I’d go ahead and try that tart cherry ( no sugar and no fruit juice mix) .  Just the tart ( not the sweet).  Anyway, sometimes the simple remedies work.  Being used to these hard core meds can make anyone skeptics,  but nothing to lose by trying the healthy solution 🙂 

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I hope and pray for the best for you.

 

Thanks bob. Same to you. I am here to report.

CBT-I helped at some point .  The whole week I went to sleep at 10 pm, woke up at 2-5am by myself , dumped alarm long time before becouse i have alarm related anxiety too))) it was tough in the beginning but later i started to fall asleep easily. .    Somedays sleep drive was very strong  and i managed to sleep 4-6 hours of broken sleep most days .  I was doing well on this amount of sleep.  But yesterday was very strange day.  I woke up, did exercize ,  everything was ok, i put on my russian replica of american OCP army combat uniform and went to Moscow ( i live in country now close to moscow) , bought gasmask and other stuff to deal with coronovirus outbreak, put everything i bought on me for fun and spent the whole day wandering in crowded russians supermarkets scaring shit of people, pranking them by the way i look  and buying food and other supplies amid coronovirus outbreak.  Then i spent time with friends and went to sleep at 10 pm. I had no anxiety, not bad thoughts  but i had day full of excitement and positive emotions .  Fell asleep easily then woke up in a hour and thats all. Problem is i wanted to sleep s hard, i was passing out but i could nt fall  asleep again. Some chemical were released into my body throught the day related to my positive emotions.  Dopamine? i dont know.. i will add emotions restriction, internet surfing restriction,  and try to avoid tyramine , tyrosine rich food (precursors of dopamine, noradrenLine, adrenaline). Report in a week.

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I hope and pray for the best for you.

 

Thanks bob. Same to you. I am here to report.

CBT-I helped at some point .  The whole week I went to sleep at 10 pm, woke up at 2-5am by myself , dumped alarm long time before becouse i have alarm related anxiety too))) it was tough in the beginning but later i started to fall asleep easily. .    Somedays sleep drive was very strong  and i managed to sleep 4-6 hours of broken sleep most days .  I was doing well on this amount of sleep.  But yesterday was very strange day.  I woke up, did exercize ,  everything was ok, i put on my russian replica of american OCP army combat uniform and went to Moscow ( i live in country now close to moscow) , bought gasmask and other stuff to deal with coronovirus outbreak, put everything i bought on me for fun and spent the whole day wandering in crowded russians supermarkets scaring shit of people, pranking them by the way i look  and buying food and other supplies amid coronovirus outbreak.  Then i spent time with friends and went to sleep at 10 pm. I had no anxiety, not bad thoughts  but i had day full of excitement and positive emotions .  Fell asleep easily then woke up in a hour and thats all. Problem is i wanted to sleep s hard, i was passing out but i could nt fall  asleep again. Some chemical were released into my body throught the day related to my positive emotions.  Dopamine? i dont know.. i will add emotions restriction, internet surfing restriction,  and try to avoid tyramine , tyrosine rich food (precursors of dopamine, noradrenLine, adrenaline). Report in a week.

Thanks for the report Alextrup,

 

I can confirm, at least for me, while my brain is in healing mode from benzo withdrawal, any big day results in a night of horrible sleep.  You had a very big day.  Such days do something to keep you anxious - I also think it is chemical in the brain.  Holiday parties for an example that do it to me.  I have a wonderful time at the party, everything feels good, but it carries over into my sleep and my sleep is destroyed.

 

I can say, when this experience happens, I have very good results fighting it using the supplements list in my signature.  In addition, a long hot bath before bed and then listen to Youtube anxiety reductions videos (don't watch, just listen), things like meditation, hypnosis, or calm affirmations.  Anything to shut off the brain.  You will recover in time.  Stay off the benzos and alcohol for sure.

 

I wish you the best. 

 

I enjoy your report on Moscow.  I find it interesting to hear about other parts of the world.  I live in Missouri USA.  We are mostly shut down to keep the virus from spreading.  Everyone is working from home if possible.

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Yes!  I was sleeping very well.  I could listen to audiobooks and drift off.  Now, I am unfortunately having some kind of wave. THe audiobooks are just not working,;  I really can't even follow a plot.  The WORSE thing, I have found, is to let yourself lay in bed and ruminate over the situation.  I have heard it said, an idle mind is the devil's playground. You are better off getting up and trying to do something.  Bingeing on Netflix seem to work. 

I hope this passes, and I can get back to at LEAST 6 consecutive hours of sleep a night.  Insomnia is so bad on every level. Worrying about the lack of sleep does not help either.  Sleep is  cleansing for the brain, especially a benzo damaged brain. 

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Yes!  I was sleeping very well.  I could listen to audiobooks and drift off.  Now, I am unfortunately having some kind of wave. THe audiobooks are just not working,;  I really can't even follow a plot.  The WORSE thing, I have found, is to let yourself lay in bed and ruminate over the situation.  I have heard it said, an idle mind is the devil's playground. You are better off getting up and trying to do something.  Bingeing on Netflix seem to work. 

I hope this passes, and I can get back to at LEAST 6 consecutive hours of sleep a night.  Insomnia is so bad on every level. Worrying about the lack of sleep does not help either.  Sleep is  cleansing for the brain, especially a benzo damaged brain.

Maybe you could try mixing up your audio.  I rotate through Youtube Meditations, Hypnosis, AMSR, and calming affirmations.

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Late waves are somewhat common?  I had a 29 day insomnia only wave at about 18 months off.  It sucked.  4 zero nights and lots of 1 or 2 hour nights.  It eventually evened out. It will for you too.  I Netflix binge when I wake up too early, like last night, 3:00 am wide awake after about 6 hours of sleep.  I do that more than I'd like to, but feel fine.  6+ hours is enough for me although I usually get 6-8 most nights.
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Here is my report. i dumped CBT-I once again. After 1.5 weeks of use it gave me increased anxiety ,and extreme heart  palpations.  It seems CBT-I is good for healthy people with circadian rhytm disorder, but its not my case. Main mechanism of CBT-I is sleep restriction but my body adapted to increased sleep drive caused by sleep restriction  by increasing hyperarousal to the roof.  So next day i focused on my daytime anxiety and abandoned idea of trying anything to help me sleep. In theory overthinking= anxiety.  So For the next 5 days i restricted internet use  to 2 hours a day and tried to keep my mind blank for the most part of day. At first it was very hard to not think 

even for 1 minute, thoughts attacked my brain constantly and i have to focus on my  breath o get rid of any thoughts but later it becomes easier and i could stop thinkinh for 30 minutes while walking, washing dishes, cooking.  Then i did emotions restriction, i tried do not laugh , feel angry or guilt.  I dont know if it worked or my wave ceased but i was able to sleep 6 h on average for the last 5 days ( one day i slept 8 hours of broken sleep and it was incredible) I still have broken sleep and daytime anxiety but my heart palps gone and i dont feel misarable and broken anymore.  I continue to work on my daytime anxiety and report if i achieve better results

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Here is my report. i dumped CBT-I once again. After 1.5 weeks of use it gave me increased anxiety ,and extreme heart  palpations.  It seems CBT-I is good for healthy people with circadian rhytm disorder, but its not my case. Main mechanism of CBT-I is sleep restriction but my body adapted to increased sleep drive caused by sleep restriction  by increasing hyperarousal to the roof.  So next day i focused on my daytime anxiety and abandoned idea of trying anything to help me sleep. In theory overthinking= anxiety.  So For the next 5 days i restricted internet use  to 2 hours a day and tried to keep my mind blank for the most part of day. At first it was very hard to not think 

even for 1 minute, thoughts attacked my brain constantly and i have to focus on my  breath o get rid of any thoughts but later it becomes easier and i could stop thinkinh for 30 minutes while walking, washing dishes, cooking.  Then i did emotions restriction, i tried do not laugh , feel angry or guilt.  I dont know if it worked or my wave ceased but i was able to sleep 6 h on average for the last 5 days ( one day i slept 8 hours of broken sleep and it was incredible) I still have broken sleep and daytime anxiety but my heart palps gone and i dont feel misarable and broken anymore.  I continue to work on my daytime anxiety and report if i achieve better results

Congratulations in your discovery.

I can affirm, I sleep better when my anxiety is under control and it is very true, if I can avoid the things in life which create anxiety in me, I sleep better.

 

 

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