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Here I am again


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A few very stressful thinks in the last few weeks have now put me back in insomnia land. I slept perfectly well for the last two years and then this happens. I’m wide awake again tonight. Fell asleep for about 30 minutes and that was it. No idea what to do know?

 

This will be the fourth sleepless night in almost three weeks. The first two were four days apart. Now this one is is only two days from the first.

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Hi Siggy,

Not fun to have insomnia again, but it is sure to resolve itself again, just like it did before. I think that most of us that have been through the stress of withdrawal have pretty fragile sleep for a long time and can easily slip back into poor sleep when things get tough. Also, whatever led us to take benzos or z-drugs for sleep in the first place (if they were taken for sleep) may still be waiting unresolved in the shadows just waiting to make a reappearance from time to time. I would imagine that such a reappearance would be far less potent than messed up GABA receptors from an active withdrawal.

 

I hope that you are staying away from drinking, especially while this current bout of insomnia is happening. Just use all the tools that you already learned to stay calm and keep from blowing this up to something bigger than it has to be.

 

Good to hear from you again, but I would rather that you had no reason to return to say hello.

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Thanks aloha, def no alcohol or other drugs now. I was doing so good and now it feels like I’m in a tough spot again. Seems to be another sleepless night. I was easily getting 7+ hours most nights up until this. I guess my anxiety from these situations has me jacked up and I don’t know how to get back out of it. Hadn’t missed a full night in probably 2-½ years. Had a few rough nights, but nothing that got me worked up.

 

Glad to hear from you and how you’re doing well. I’m hoping this doesn’t last long.

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Siggy,

 

Sorry you're in a tough spot again after doing so well for so long!

 

When I was in a tough spot last March at the end of a vacation, I used some OTC sleep gummies (I think they were ZzzQuil pure Zzzs?) to get my circadian rhythm "jump started" again.  Not sure if they helped, but the Zero night followed by a 2 hour night and then a 3-4 hour night quickly went back to 6+ hour nights for months.

 

I guy that has worked for me for 7 years has chronic insomnia that is not drug related although he smokes and drinks a lot of regular coke.  He goes through bouts of zero nights and said that sometimes melatonin works for him.  He only takes a low dose maybe one or two times per week on the bad nights.

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Siggy,

 

Sorry you're in a tough spot again after doing so well for so long!

 

When I was in a tough spot last March at the end of a vacation, I used some OTC sleep gummies (I think they were ZzzQuil pure Zzzs?) to get my circadian rhythm "jump started" again.  Not sure if they helped, but the Zero night followed by a 2 hour night and then a 3-4 hour night quickly went back to 6+ hour nights for months.

 

I guy that has worked for me for 7 years has chronic insomnia that is not drug related although he smokes and drinks a lot of regular coke.  He goes through bouts of zero nights and said that sometimes melatonin works for him.  He only takes a low dose maybe one or two times per week on the bad nights.

 

Thanks for the response. I tried some Melatonin before and it never really worked for me. Just made me feel weird. I do drink Tart Cherry though.

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Sorry to see you are dealing with this again. You've been a huge help to me as I've gone through this. As you know, my sleep has fluctuated through the entire process. One thing that I take about once a week is this herbatonin and it does work for me. It's a only .3 milligrams of melatonin and it's all plant-based. It does work for me. They say that most melatonin supplements are way too much and actually can have the opposite effect and give people insomnia.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Health-International-Herbatonin-Supply/dp/B006H9T94Q/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=herbatonin&qid=1582126709&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzNzRXSTIwSTNENk1MJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzMyNzA3N1M0MlI5S0xJVFBMJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAzNDAwMDExMkNCNFhMU0dENjNYJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

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Sorry to see you are dealing with this again. You've been a huge help to me as I've gone through this. As you know, my sleep has fluctuated through the entire process. One thing that I take about once a week is this herbatonin and it does work for me. It's a only .3 milligrams of melatonin and it's all plant-based. It does work for me. They say that most melatonin supplements are way too much and actually can have the opposite effect and give people insomnia.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Health-International-Herbatonin-Supply/dp/B006H9T94Q/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=herbatonin&qid=1582126709&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzNzRXSTIwSTNENk1MJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzMyNzA3N1M0MlI5S0xJVFBMJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAzNDAwMDExMkNCNFhMU0dENjNYJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

Thanks for the link. I've been drinking Tart Cherry. One thing I didn't think about, I wonder if the laxative that prescribed me did something to me? Because I was fine sleep wise before I took it. It's called Lactulose. It made my head feel funny. Later I read it can have some reaction in the brain.

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Hey Boomboxboy21,

 

I take Herbatonin too from time to time and the same 0.3mg dose

 

They have a medical staff you can email anytime and get advice.  I read some of the reviews for the product and they said to start with one .3mg capsule and increase to 2 if one doesn't work.  You can email and get "FREE" dosing advice.

 

This response is from a review of person that said it didn't work:  This response also fits with what Aloha said about keeping the lights off when using the toilet at night.

 

Barbara did you contact our medical.team@naturalhi.com as sometimes dose is important and you might need slightly more. Also one of the most important thing when taking Herbatonin is going to bed in darkness as melatonin reacts to light and dark, not day and night. Taking Herbatonin but still being in light wont be as effective.

Regards,

James Frame

CEO

Natural Health International

 

Here's another response from one of their medical team members:

 

Firstly just like you experienced melatonin assists with falling asleep not staying asleep. Staying asleep relates to other aspects of sleep health which we can help you on please email medical.team@naturalhi.com or call 415 243 9991.

 

In addition as you experienced low dose helped you fall asleep but then you increased the dose to assist staying asleep - which it doesn't work for. Instead increasing the dose and thus "overdosing" melatonin resulted in making it harder for you to fall asleep.  Many people don't know that too much melatonin can in fact make it harder to fall asleep and make you wake up in the middle of the night thus low dose and other support for sleep versus more melatonin is the key.

 

Also if you take melatonin and then have light stimulation ie your tablet on it will actually make it worse and trigger your wake cycle! Melatonin does not work based on day and night but light and dark. Dark triggers melatonin and stimulates the sleep cycle;  light (especially from a phone or computer) does the opposite.

 

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Just an update. Was able to sleep from 12pm to 4:30am last night. So roughly 4-½ hours. Feel pretty good today considering. 

 

Hoping I can get a few tonight. Being able to sleep every night would be a great help for my confidence that I'm getting back to my regular sleep routine before this insomnia spell hit me. Hoping that it won't last long and I can feel good again.

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I think lactulose is actually supposed to help people with encephalopathy when the liver can’t detox resulting in mental cognitive problems

 

I saw that, but I was sleeping mostly normally until I took the Lactulose. Had another person tell me in a PM that it could cause that. All I know is something isn’t right after nearly 2-½ years if not having any problems sleeping.

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Could be something new in your diet. Chocolate can cause insomnia, even in seemingly moderate amounts. As can too much caffeine, obviously. Some new snack that's loaded with MSG could cause this problem. And alcohol has been mentioned already. Take a look at what you've been eating and drinking lately.
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Could it be a stressful event

 

Yes that could be contributing. Had jury duty a few weeks ago and it stretched on longer than normal (two weeks). Also my brother was in the hospital for liver problems related to drinking. But I was sleeping relatively well during these things. I had two sleepless nights during the trial though. One from having diarrhea one night. I then got constipated because I took too much Imodium. I had to go to the ER and that’s when I was prescribed the laxative.

 

I was easily falling asleep for 2-½ years before this and sleeping well. I would generally fall asleep within 10-15 minutes and would sleep for 7-10 hours. So now I don’t know how to get back to my regular sleep pattern?

 

The even bigger problem is only sleeping every other day.

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Maybe try stopping the bowel meds and wait it out? Lol I’m not sure why I’m contributing advice and opinion sinc my sleep is still nonexistent at a year out. But just my two cents
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Could be something new in your diet. Chocolate can cause insomnia, even in seemingly moderate amounts. As can too much caffeine, obviously. Some new snack that's loaded with MSG could cause this problem. And alcohol has been mentioned already. Take a look at what you've been eating and drinking lately.

 

Thanks, I haven’t changed anything in my diet. I was drinking one or two cups of coffee in the morning with no effect on min sleep. I’ve even occassionally drank some in the evenings and it didn’t stop me from sleeping.

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Maybe try stopping the bowel meds and wait it out? Lol I’m not sure why I’m contributing advice and opinion sinc my sleep is still nonexistent at a year out. But just my two cents

 

I only took it for two days. Last Thursday and then again on Friday. Sunday night is when all of this started. I couldn’t sleep Sunday and Tuesday.

 

Sorry to hear you’ve had issues for a year. I’ve gone through withdrawal and then two setbacks from alcohol. So I’m just confused by this now.

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Felt slightly drowsy on the sofa around 11:30. Tried to come to bed but couldn’t fall asleep. Found some of my Hydroxyzine and took one. Put me in micro-sleep for a few minutes off an on. Allowed me to lay still at least for a few hours. Feel like crap and don’t understand how this happened again. No idea how long it will take to get back to normal.
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Siggy,

 

Sorry this is happening again, but as a battle tested veteran of not sleeping, you know this will even out over time.  Saying that doesn't help you feel any better, but please know this will end soon.  Try not to let it freak you out too much.  :)

 

I would guess it won't take nearly as much time as it did for you during your setbacks?

 

 

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Siggy,

 

Sorry this is happening again, but as a battle tested veteran of not sleeping, you know this will even out over time.  Saying that doesn't help you feel any better, but please know this will end soon.  Try not to let it freak you out too much.  :)

 

I would guess it won't take nearly as much time as it did for you during your setbacks?

 

Thanks for the response.

 

I really hope not. I really think my flight or fight response is in full gear and I can't see how to calm it down. Then the nights of insomnia have brought back my sleep anxiety too. I was able to fall asleep briefly twice this morning maybe for 5 minutes. Not great, but my pattern usually has been sleep one night and not the next. If I could just get a solid 3 or 4 hours a night, I would get a lot of my confidence back. I just have a lot of trouble falling asleep initially.

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Last night I was able to sleep about 8 hours I think, I didn’t look at a clock. I was dozing on the sofa and so I went to bed. Fell asleep quickly but then woke up about 30 minutes later. Got up and watched some more tv until I started dozing again. Eventually fell asleep again but had extremely weird dreams. Probably from them tryptophan. I couldn’t tell if I was awake or asleep until I actually did wake up and realized it. Was awake for a little while, but then fell back asleep again,

 

I’m just hoping I can start getting sleep every night.

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Just going to make this my sleep log. Anyone can chime in if they want.

 

I was able to sleep again last night. This was the first real two days in a row I’ve had in a week. Felt sleepy around 11, so I went to bed. Took a while to fall asleep, but I eventually did. Woke up around 1am. Was awake for a little while until I fell back asleep again. I think I woke up a bunch of times during the night and was falling back to sleep. Felt like crap today for some reason. Depressed and felt basically like a toxic nap. Dues anyone know anyone else that’s had a setback like this?

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Siggy, if it is any consolation, I still get nights like that from time-to-time.  They are either just a single event or a 2 or 3 day stretch.  Dreams seem vivid and don't make much sense.  Sleep is light and I wake up a lot.  In fact, I remember one night about a month ago where I woke up at least 10 times...maybe more...seemed to get back to a light version of sleep in 5 or 10 minutes but it seemed to happen every 45 minutes or so.  About 1 time every 6 weeks or so I get a night like that...I actually feel "wired" like I did in the "bad old days" of hardly sleeping. 

 

But then again, I started Benzos for some sleep issues that appeared out of the blue...I was always a great sleeper. 

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Siggy, if it is any consolation, I still get nights like that from time-to-time.  They are either just a single event or a 2 or 3 day stretch.  Dreams seem vivid and don't make much sense.  Sleep is light and I wake up a lot.  In fact, I remember one night about a month ago where I woke up at least 10 times...maybe more...seemed to get back to a light version of sleep in 5 or 10 minutes but it seemed to happen every 45 minutes or so.  About 1 time very 6 weeks or so I get a night like that...I actually feel "wired" like I did in the "bad old days" of hardly sleeping. 

 

But then again, I started Benzos for some sleep issues that appeared out of the blue...I was always a great sleeper.

 

Thanks for the info. That's how I've been feeling lately. Very wired and not relaxed. I have no idea if it's just general anxiety, or if I set something off in my CNS?

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So I'm almost positive it was the LDN Low Dose Naltrexone that caused this setback. It was a shot to counteract the opiate in the Imodium. WTF!!!!!!!!

 

I was basically healed for years until this happened.

 

It's on a list of substances that can cause a setback.

https://www.benzowarrior.com/may-cause-setbacks

 

So know I have no idea how long I'm going to  have to go through this again. I guess I just can't ever get sick again.

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