Jordan Peterson's year of 'absolute hell': Professor forced to retreat....

 

The same largely goes for her father, Jordan, if/when he might express views about psychiatry and medicine. He's a psychologist, not a medical doctor. Because of his platform, there is indeed added prominence when he expresses his views. But are they any more reliable or important than anyone posting here? Except for the rather limited margins where his profession meets the other, I would suggest not. I am not totally dismissing what he might have to say (in advance him actually directly expressing any of his views). There are aspects of this where his expertise might offer some insights. But in the broad, he is just another individual who has suffered very significant problems from his (doctor prescribed) use of benzodiazepines. His journeying to Russia, the induced comma, etc., are only distractions and irrelevant to the core issues.

 

I think his journeying to Russia and the induced coma are relevant, given they were the direct result of complete incompetence of the medical profession with a class of drugs that has been on the market for many decades. A curious person might wonder how many drugs they have not bothered to understand at all but still prescribe in large quantities, recklessly, for periods of time the drugs were never tested for. Then you might wonder why there is so little about any of this in the medical literature.

 

I feel like we should evaluate people's views on medicine and psychiatry based on whether we feel they are accurate in their analysis, not based on credentialism or some equal-weighting method. Not that I am giving any advance credence to Peterson's views, although I do feel that Mikhaila is right that the profession has been corrupted by the pharmaceutical industry. Whether Russian doctors are free of corruption is another matter....

 

"In the recent RT interview she talks about he she no longer has faith in doctors because of this experience."

 

I wonder in whom she will place her faith when she needs her first hip revision?

Well I tend to trust a mechanic when they say I need a new tyre.. But I dont have the same faith when they say I need a new ECU..

 

Drs were great at post trauma management (physical), but as we moved on to the longer term medicine issues it got a bit hit n miss...

 

I am prone to place my trust in those that have demonstrated that their skills and knowledge serve me and others well. For the most part, I am fortunate that my doctors, mechanics and others have demonstrated their skills and expertise to me time after time. imo, it is a grave disservice, like the example set by Ms. Peterson, to lead people into mistrusting entire classes of ethical professionals to promote their own self serving interests. As I noted, I believe Ms. Peterson's lack of faith in doctors will be restored when she again faces debilitating pain and an inability to walk and that she will gladly accept the professional services of a good orthopedic surgeon to perform her 1st and subsequent hip revisions.

 

I agree with all of that, except for one caveat: why anyone would attribute any particular import to Mikhaila Peterson's views of the medical profession is beyond me. This is not to say that she is not entitled to relay her experiences and express her views. But her views should be no more important than those of your average poster on the Net. But for some reason I do not fully understand, her views do seem to hold more significance for some.

 

The same largely goes for her father, Jordan, if/when he might express views about psychiatry and medicine. He's a psychologist, not a medical doctor. Because of his platform, there is indeed added prominence when he expresses his views. But are they any more reliable or important than anyone posting here? Except for the rather limited margins where his profession meets the other, I would suggest not. I am not totally dismissing what he might have to say (in advance him actually directly expressing any of his views). There are aspects of this where his expertise might offer some insights. But in the broad, he is just another individual who has suffered very significant problems from his (doctor prescribed) use of benzodiazepines. His journeying to Russia, the induced comma, etc., are only distractions and irrelevant to the core issues.

 

The two professions have the job of cooperating with each other to treat behavioral issues. When you go to an MD you may ask them a question and they will say talk to your therapist. If you have issues about a med, your therapist will refer you back to the MD. A psychopharm Dr will always ask you whether you have a therapist.

 

JP is not a layman. And he has promoted Pharm quite a lot, as a public intellectual. I hope that the chat doesn't need to be sanitized of real issues around this topic. I don't think JP benefits from that.

 

I agree with all of that, except for one caveat: why anyone would attribute any particular import to Mikhaila Peterson's views of the medical profession is beyond me.

 

On Twitter psychiatrist were using their past statements about meat diet and the Russia trip to say that this benzo problem he was experiencing was not the norm, that it's very easy to get appropriate treatment in North America and they are just into pseudoscience and unwilling to get this help. I think bringing up how much Jordan has supported psychiatry in the past is helpful and also reminding all that in every video about benzo issues thus far they were, by their own reporting, following the guidance of local physicians and facilities. This seems critical to understanding for me. The approach is just another way for medicine to divert responsibility and write the sufferers off as crazy,  like they have for us.

On Twitter psychiatrist were using their past statements about meat diet and the Russia trip to say that this benzo problem he was experiencing was not the norm, that it's very easy to get appropriate treatment in North America and they are just into pseudoscience and unwilling to get this help.

 

That's rich, coming from people whose entire profession is based on psuedoscience.

 

I can't say for sure that JP's "awakening" only started with the profound changes that he saw in himself and in his daughter by changing their diets, but the benzo thing certainly isn't his first experience with learning that things aren't always as they seem when it comes to health and medicine. That's a good thing. The more your eyes are open to one thing the easier it is to see the truth in other things.

 

All said n done,

I think the important thing is the freedom to follow our own beliefs,

-though this may also mean accepting any consequences of the same..

 

:thumbsup:

 

We possibly all have the same wish....

to be healthy again and heal, yet

we all have varying obstacles

unique to us individually on this journey.

 

almost any wish or goal

has obstacles that need to be overcome by us,

even this is demonstrated by the many

and varied opinions and solutions offered here

on BB.

 

It is never just one solution or another persons solution or beliefs

 

These often may not fit our situation or belief system,

so it is up to us to research,

and evaluate  any information for ourselves.

 

Freedom to follow our own beliefs as Cantfly  said, 

is an important feature of our very  own healing,

as it is  also with Jordan Peterson, and his daughter,

as they follow their  own beliefs also.

 

I think people should figure out what works for their own bodies. But there ARE objective measures that can reflect how we're well we're doing with our diets, e.g. blood work, blood pressure. If you try a diet for awhile, and the changes are going in the wrong direction, then it may be time to reassess.

 

Yes and no.

 

Some people will swear that you will get scurvy if you don't eat enough fruits or vegetables, but it turns out that the body likely needs a lot less vitamin c when you eat fewer carbohydrates. So many things are dependent upon so many other things so it can be hard to make an objective assessment.

 

Or how about cholesterol. If your LDL goes up that doesn't necessarily mean that your risk of heart disease is going to go up, despite we are lead to believe. If you go to a "regular" doctor they might only look at this one number before determining that you are at a much higher risk for a heart attack, but there are more and more doctors out there who will tell you that LDL is only a small part of the overall picture. If two different doctors have a radically different opinion on something like this, that is far from an objective measure.

 

I'm not saying that all bloodwork numbers are useless, I am saying that some of these numbers are very likely to change depending on certain factors and the usefulness of some of them in general is debateable. It goes right back to my assertion that the science on all of this stuff isn't nearly as "settled" as we might believe it is.

 

Well, hopefully, doctors aren't taking one number in isolation when looking at blood test results. Usually, there are a number of numbers, e.g. LDL, HDL, triglycerides, cholesterol, etc., that provide a lipid profile. So, maybe things are different where you are, but that's been my experience here.

 

 

Well, hopefully, doctors aren't taking one number in isolation when looking at blood test results. Usually, there are a number of numbers, e.g. LDL, HDL, triglycerides, cholesterol, etc., that provide a lipid profile. So, maybe things are different where you are, but that's been my experience here.

 

The conversation usually goes something like this-

 

"Your LDL is extremely high! Your 'good' cholesterol is also high and that's a good thing, but....... your LDL is very high, so we need to get you on a statin drug ASAP!"

 

Some people might not consider that to be "taking the numbers in isolation", but I do.

 

Having a strong family history of heart disease and "high" LDL cholesterol myself, I have looked into this extensively.

 

I can go on youtube right now and pull up at least half a dozen doctors and other experts in the field who can explain explain in detail the truth behind lipid science. Long story short- statin drugs are only proven to provide a relatively small benefit to a small group of people, yet they are prescribed to everyone and their brother.

 

Here is an excellent discussion that outlines how it usually goes down at the doctor when you have high LDL, and this is what lead this biochemical engineer to dedicate his life to understanding how lipids work (starts around 10:30)-

Hey FG,

A number of weeks ago, I was watching a 2018 video by an American health practitioner, and she was reacting to a new standard of what constituted "high blood pressure", and this number determined whether doctors would prescribe a medication. The figure had recently been dropped even lower, making it easier for doctors to suggest that drugs were necessary. She was clearly concerned about the over-medication of people who really didn't need to be medicated. As well, this increase in medication would provide a big bonus to pharmaceutical companies.

 

The story that you're telling me sounds much like what this health practitioner was describing, and I'm sorry to hear it. Has your doctor ever mentioned any lifestyle changes that could provide a non-drug way to change your numbers? Based on what you've written, I'm guessing not.

 

 

Hey FG,

A number of weeks ago, I was watching a 2018 video by an American health practitioner, and she was reacting to a new standard of what constituted "high blood pressure", and this number determined whether doctors would prescribe a medication. The figure had recently been dropped even lower, making it easier for doctors to suggest that drugs necessary. She was clearly concerned about the over-medication of people who really didn't need to be medicated. As well, this increase in medication would provide a big bonus to pharmaceutical companies.

 

Dr Ken Berry talks about how he isn't convinced about the new BP guidelines in this video-

 

He also mentions in another one of his youtube videos that he isn't concerned at all unless BP taken at home, resting, under zero stress is above (don't quote me on this figure, not sure the exact numbers he mentioned) 140/85.

 

None of this is surprising if you think about how marketing works. The drug companies have to figure out ways to increase revenue, and a great way to do that is to expand the market for an existing drug. Lower the bar and you now have x millions of new customers.

 

The story that you're telling me sounds much like what this health practitioner was describing, and I'm sorry to hear it. Has your doctor ever mentioned any lifestyle changes that could provide a non-drug way to change your numbers? Based on what you've written, I'm guessing not.

 

I have been through a few of them over the past several years and some have mentioned exercise and diet in passing but the dietary advice is never anything more than the boilerplate "eat more veggies and whole grains" type stuff that I now know to be flawed.

 

Ironically the one doctor who was adamant about me losing weight was about 5'2", 225lbs herself 

 

 

I had to laugh at what you said in the end, FG!

 

My ex-husband's LDL is high and so is his HDL. I would caution against taking statins for it. My ex-husband doesn't take them. He has a more broad-minded doctor. I have a friend who took them for years and now can't walk much because of the terrible muscle issues statins cause.

 

And if someone is going to prescribe more bp pills because my bp is sky high in the doctor's office, I'm not going to take them. I'm too dizzy already and there are tons of side effects with those horrible pills that don't work for benzo anxiety. They've all turned on me and instead RAISE my bp. Besides, I'd be dead now if my bp was that high at home. You'd think doctors would understand this, but no.

 

I listened to a lot of the video you put up, FG. Very interesting!

And if someone is going to prescribe more bp pills because my bp is sky high in the doctor's office, I'm not going to take them. I'm too dizzy already and there are tons of side effects with those horrible pills that don't work for benzo anxiety. They've all turned on me and instead RAISE my bp. Besides, I'd be dead now if my bp was that high at home. You'd think doctors would understand this, but no.

 

I listened to a lot of the video you put up, FG. Very interesting!

 

Blood pressure is no joke, I know you have had lots of issues with this but don't throw the baby out with the bath water. The whole cholesterol thing is based on shaky, inconclusive science but the BP thing is different.

 

Dr. Berry talks about this in that video. Why can't I find a doctor around here who has had an "awakening"? If her weren't 600 miles away I would pay out of pocket to see him. He has several more BP videos on youtube....worth a watch.

What can be done if they don't work anymore? I've taken tons of bp drugs, and being in the hospital and seeing the bp monitor raise HIGHER after the ER people gave me either bp pills or bp IVs was SCARY. But they kept doing it, anyway. Like insanity.

 

I feel the high bp in my head and stomach, never in my chest. A doctor told me that was the vagus nerve in my stomach, so I know it has something to do with the benzos and also the gut microbiome.

What can be done if they don't work anymore?

 

Maybe we have already discussed this, but have you tried anything else to get your BP down? Diet change? Exercise? Weight loss?

 

I think I remember you saying you are pretty thin but I do know that excess weight is a big contributing factor for a lot of people.

Yes, I'm thin, about 115 pounds at 5'5". And I do walk up hills and walk all over the place. My bp can go as low as 82 and as high as 240. It's the high benzo chemical anxiety that causes such high bp and because of all the medical trauma I've been through and the stupid mistakes I made that resulted in my second TIA, which caused tremendous adrenaline surges.

 

I'm on a plant-based diet, but I really think cutting out the coffee would help because after awhile, it becomes like poison to my body as it accumulates. This was NOT the case before benzos. But then if I cut out coffee, my standing bp goes really too low, 96-106, while the sitting bp goes to the 140-150 range, which causes tremendous dizziness. But I've dealt with it so long that I go out, anyway. I try not to turn around, though, because that puts me on the other side of the sidewalk.

 

I would not ever get off my pills unless I go super slowly. But they don't work, anyway. They USED to work until I took Lasix. I don't know what the Lasix did, but somehow it messed things up for the other pills.

 

Sorry for going on and on with this, but it's serious to me. There is nothing that works except getting off coffee, which creates the problem of my bp going too low. And then I drink coffee again so I can at least raise the standing bp so I can walk, as I do everything by walking because I have no car. Can't win with this!

"In the recent RT interview she talks about he she no longer has faith in doctors because of this experience."

 

I wonder in whom she will place her faith when she needs her first hip revision?

Well I tend to trust a mechanic when they say I need a new tyre.. But I dont have the same faith when they say I need a new ECU..

 

Drs were great at post trauma management (physical), but as we moved on to the longer term medicine issues it got a bit hit n miss...

 

I am prone to place my trust in those that have demonstrated that their skills and knowledge serve me and others well. For the most part, I am fortunate that my doctors, mechanics and others have demonstrated their skills and expertise to me time after time. imo, it is a grave disservice, like the example set by Ms. Peterson, to lead people into mistrusting entire classes of ethical professionals to promote their own self serving interests. As I noted, I believe Ms. Peterson's lack of faith in doctors will be restored when she again faces debilitating pain and an inability to walk and that she will gladly accept the professional services of a good orthopedic surgeon to perform her 1st and subsequent hip revisions.

 

I have no doubt that there are trusted medical professionals who do surgeries. The U.S. has done a fantastic job in developing the right equipment and in teaching those surgeons in medical school.

 

But that is far, far different from what Mikhaila has received for her health issues. She's gone through a lot of pain all her life. I can understand completely where she's coming from. I, too, have undergone a lot of medical trauma, and my score sheet for doctors in this area is very low. There is no digging deeper. There seem to be only pills prescribed and blood tests taken, and a patient is on their way. There are only a couple of doctors (one is a surgeon) whom I have faith and trust in. And I've been to many, many doctors.

"In the recent RT interview she talks about he she no longer has faith in doctors because of this experience."

 

I wonder in whom she will place her faith when she needs her first hip revision?

Well I tend to trust a mechanic when they say I need a new tyre.. But I dont have the same faith when they say I need a new ECU..

 

Drs were great at post trauma management (physical), but as we moved on to the longer term medicine issues it got a bit hit n miss...

 

I am prone to place my trust in those that have demonstrated that their skills and knowledge serve me and others well. For the most part, I am fortunate that my doctors, mechanics and others have demonstrated their skills and expertise to me time after time. imo, it is a grave disservice, like the example set by Ms. Peterson, to lead people into mistrusting entire classes of ethical professionals to promote their own self serving interests. As I noted, I believe Ms. Peterson's lack of faith in doctors will be restored when she again faces debilitating pain and an inability to walk and that she will gladly accept the professional services of a good orthopedic surgeon to perform her 1st and subsequent hip revisions.

 

I have no doubt that there are trusted medical professionals who do surgeries. The U.S. has done a fantastic job in developing the right equipment and in teaching those surgeons in medical school.

 

But that is far, far different from what Mikhaila has received for her health issues. She's gone through a lot of pain all her life. I can understand completely where she's coming from. I, too, have undergone a lot of medical trauma, and my score sheet for doctors in this area is very low. There is no digging deeper. There seem to be only pills prescribed and blood tests taken, and a patient is on their way. There are only a couple of doctors (one is a surgeon) whom I have faith and trust in. And I've been to many, many doctors.

 

It's not just that she puts down the entire medical profession to promote her "miracle diet" that bothers me, she has outright lied about her adherence to her diet, claiming to only eating beef, salt and water in one or more of her self promotional videos & then in another interview confessing that she also drinks vodka and bourbon. Who knows what other "secrets" she keeps closeted until she accidentally "spills the beans" in some of her off the wall rants? I would personally rate her as a "Potentially Inappropriate Medication" for those that choose to follow her.

What interview was that where she says about vodka? Do you have a link?

What interview was that where she says about vodka? Do you have a link?

 

I really don't like promoting her at all but, since some question my sincerity & my veracity in reporting, I'll make an exception for you (you're welcome):

 

 

"I can drink bourbon, vodka and silver tequila - all alcohols with nothing added after distillation. If I don't drink a ton of water I get ridiculously hungover. Don't get kicked out of ketosis though! A pint of Perrier with a shot = almost no hangover.

8:55 PM · Aug 1, 2018"

 

 

"I'm carnivore and drink bourbon and have arthritis, hasn't bothered me..."

 

I will restate my position re: Mikhalia Peterson & her perverse rhetoric regarding her self promotion of the "Lion Diet" as a heathy alternative to a balanced life style: I would classify her as a "Potentially Inappropriate Medication" especially for those who follow her on Twitter/YouTube  & other social media du jour as fans. best wishes

When I watched part of one of the Joe Rogan interviews with Jordan Peterson, I was happy to hear him preface his comments about his diet by saying something about not being an expert and not promoting his meat-heavy diet for anyone else. He owned it and said his story was but one anecdote. 

 

Is Mikhaila actively promoting her diet to others? If so, I do hope that people are savvy enough to do their own research and to seek answers from people who might be better qualified to provide information on nutrition.

 

 

Excuse me, but this is all ridiculous - tearing Mikhaila apart. She's in the limelight because of her father, and she's doing her best. She's YOUNG. Haven't you people made some questionable choices when you were young??? I certainly have, only I  didn't have social media down my back at everything I said. Maybe she has made some mistakes, or maybe she hasn't. She has a right to learn from all her choices.

 

None of you, I doubt, have ever been torn apart by social media on such a large scale. Give the poor girl a damn break. She almost lost her mom. Now her dad is in peril.

 

So what if she's doing such-and-such a diet? Geez!!!

What interview was that where she says about vodka? Do you have a link?

 

I really don't like promoting her at all but, since some question my sincerity & my veracity in reporting, I'll make an exception for you (you're welcome):

 

 

"I can drink bourbon, vodka and silver tequila - all alcohols with nothing added after distillation. If I don't drink a ton of water I get ridiculously hungover. Don't get kicked out of ketosis though! A pint of Perrier with a shot = almost no hangover.

8:55 PM · Aug 1, 2018"

 

 

"I'm carnivore and drink bourbon and have arthritis, hasn't bothered me..."

 

I will restate my position re: Mikhalia Peterson & her perverse rhetoric regarding her self promotion of the "Lion Diet" as a heathy alternative to a balanced life style: I would classify her as a "Potentially Inappropriate Medication" especially for those who follow her on Twitter/YouTube  & other social media du jour as fans. best wishes

 

WHY are you so obsessed with these people!? Don’t you have anything else to do? Can you contribute positivity to this forum? God, it’s non stop. Should I resurrect the Lena Dunham thread and post about how she’s a self-admitted child molester and abuser? That’s how off-topic this is. Can we focus on benzos and not your obvious political views... Exhausting...

Or food choices. Exactly, DBM!

When I watched part of one of the Joe Rogan interviews with Jordan Peterson, I was happy to hear him preface his comments about his diet by saying something about not being an expert and not promoting his meat-heavy diet for anyone else. He owned it and said his story was but one anecdote. 

 

Is Mikhaila actively promoting her diet to others? If so, I do hope that people are savvy enough to do their own research and to seek answers from people who might be better qualified to provide information on nutrition.

 

The funny thing is that Joe Rogan, the guy who does MMA, the huge proponent of eating a "balanced" diet, the guy who has enough money to be able to eat however he wants, the guy who hunts a lot of his own meat (which is arguably the healthiest meat you could possibly eat), just tried the carnivore diet and is now on record as saying he feels better than he ever felt in his entire life. His friends are also saying that he looks fantastic.

 

Once again I am going to reiterate that it is incredibly sad that people who have been harmed by conventional orthodoxy still have their heads in the sand when it comes to diet. If you actually take the time to learn about nutrition (and I'm not talking about perusing the AHA or ADA websites or WebMd, I'm talking about listening to the growing number of doctors, scientists and laypeople who explain in detail how flawed modern nutritional dogma is). Once your eyes are open you can clearly see how similar the diet issue is to the psych drug issue and how poor dietary advice is very likely the root cause of many modern chronic diseases.

 

I get it. I still catch myself wanting to drain the fat off of my ground beef because I was brainwashed to think that fat is BAD. We all grew up being fed the same dietary "wisdom" and it isn't easy to allow yourself to be open to new ideas when you were hammered with propaganda for 30 or 40 years or more.

 

If you truly do care about your health you owe it to yourself to look into this. You were made incredibly ill by drugs that experts told you were safe. You don't think it is possible that you have also been lied to about your diet? It's no coincidence that things such as heart disease and diabetes only became a big issue after processed seed oils became a thing and we started eating 57lbs of sugar every year.

 

It's one thing to be skeptical of something that doesn't fit into conventional orthodoxy, but if dismiss things like this outright simply because it goes against what "health authorities" have told you, you haven't learned your lesson.

You’re crazy, FG. The food pyramid is healthy with its grain recommendations. Just look how well it has worked since the 80s! And everyone on this site only feels bad because it’s their “old symptoms” returning. That’s what the experts say and there’s no way they have ever been influenced by money.

I'm no expert but for a few year there was a trendy diet called the Ducan diet based only on animal protein and green vegetables. Yes of course you lost weight. My best friend did it. A few months later she was hospitalized for kidney disease. She was only 36 (she's much younger than I am). Then I saw on TV that this diet was very hard on your liver.