can we please discuss pros and cons of Vodka.

thankyou.  please? in my solution.  i have been using vodka.  over on FB there is a hot debate scaring me about using any amount of vodka during tapering.     i am scared.  (gaba stuff).  so, please what are the pros and cons of using vodka as a solvent and will it indeed keep my brain from healing, like keep the gabas held down.  and not opeen up.  i have come down from 3.75 mg of ativan to 3.08 mg today.  but, i am dizzy,  confused, oveerrwhlelmds. but, i did a rapid taper last year. don't know if that's still causing my brain issues.    but, will vodka hurt me to use  likee they say it is. what is the worst that can happen with a Vodka solvent?  (thankyou, so confused and scared now.  i need to say off facebook).  also, maybe go back to dry cutting, but, my brain will not like that change up . i know.

I can't help, except to say that the idea of the vodka scares me too. I just posted about my taper. I'm up for the dry micro taper but I am not sure of the overall effect (big picture). Read it if you care to discuss it. Seems like you have lots more experience with this than I do for sure.

 

 

This is what she is telling me over on facebook. i am now afraid to use vodka in my solution i have been using since Nov.   is the vodka really hurting me and put me in a WD no on can pull be back from? 

please answer me.  what are the pros and cons of vodka durring tapering.  please don't delete thiss, i am scared. i don[t want to be in a permanent wave from the vodka?

 

"Having just 1 or 2 drinks can be enough to throw you into a withdrawal that you might not be able to pull yourself out of - and NOBODY will able to get you back on track with your taper or post-taper withdrawal (some people had to reinstate all the way back to the beginning - or updose even higher than their beginning and start all over again).

 

This is because the primary effect of alcohol is the upregulation of glutamatergic receptors (alcohol opens the chloride ion channel of GABA receptors directly, so the body responds with more glutamate - the changes to the GABA receptors aren't as severe as with benzos). And these glutamatergic receptors are not homeostatic like GABA receptors - changes to glutamatergic receptors tend to stick around. Couple that with already weakened GABA receptors, and you are putting yourself at VERY serious risk for protracted withdrawal or being thrown back into acute withdrawal, no matter how well you are doing with your taper or how well your taper went.

 

Please reconsider not drinking until long after your taper is finished - say about 2 years or so, just to make sure that all of your receptors have recovered (some people would say to never take a GABA agonist or positive allosteric modulator ever again).

 

There are members who went 12 months or more after a taper who ended up back in withdrawal after consuming alcohol just once and not much of it.. Please, please, please be careful with anything which impacts GABA receptors upsetting an already fragile and raw system post benzo taper. Nobody wants to re..."

 

please Admin, don't delete this, i need to know with all my heart and body and mind.  is this really hurting me.  they are stating that it is known to cause a permanent WD that no one can pull us out of.  is it affecting my gabas when i use my vodka solution. i am worried and concerned. please help me decide if i should go back to dry tapering and stop messing with vodka. 

 

I can't help, except to say that the idea of the vodka scares me too. I just posted about my taper. I'm up for the dry micro taper but I am not sure of the overall effect (big picture). Read it if you care to discuss it. Seems like you have lots more experience with this than I do for sure.

 

 

 

the admin in benzo group warns this and i am genuinely scared now.   i hve been using it since Nov.     maybe it's set me back and causing my stuff. and what about being cast into a WD no one can pull us out of. oh, i wish an admin would set me straight.  am i hurting my brain more and gabas by using vodka.  and, i am drinking a shot glass full  worth , in a week.       so worried.  my brain will be worse off.    here's what the admin wrote.

 

"Having just 1 or 2 drinks can be enough to throw you into a withdrawal that you might not be able to pull yourself out of - and NOBODY will able to get you back on track with your taper or post-taper withdrawal (some people had to reinstate all the way back to the beginning - or updose even higher than their beginning and start all over again).

 

This is because the primary effect of alcohol is the upregulation of glutamatergic receptors (alcohol opens the chloride ion channel of GABA receptors directly, so the body responds with more glutamate - the changes to the GABA receptors aren't as severe as with benzos). And these glutamatergic receptors are not homeostatic like GABA receptors - changes to glutamatergic receptors tend to stick around. Couple that with already weakened GABA receptors, and you are putting yourself at VERY serious risk for protracted withdrawal or being thrown back into acute withdrawal, no matter how well you are doing with your taper or how well your taper went.

 

Please reconsider not drinking until long after your taper is finished - say about 2 years or so, just to make sure that all of your receptors have recovered (some people would say to never take a GABA agonist or positive allosteric modulator ever again).

 

There are members who went 12 months or more after a taper who ended up back in withdrawal after consuming alcohol just once and not much of it.. Please, please, please be careful with anything which impacts GABA receptors upsetting an already fragile and raw system post benzo taper. Nobody wants to re.."

 

Stop and breath distract until someone can help.  Do not read anything that scares you.  Breathe!  Meditate go for a walk.  Hold on someone will see this.

 

B

i am so afraid.   so very. i feel like going and doing dry cutting the old way.  i was thinking vodka taper was ok, i have beeen hurting myself unknowingly for 4 months doing this vodka stuff.  i will right now, bundle up it's freezeing out in iowa, and i am dizzy and did a cut.  i will go for a walk .i hope someone can help me, please.     am i damaging my gabas even more. 

Stop and breath distract until someone can help.  Do not read anything that scares you.  Breathe!  Meditate go for a walk.  Hold on someone will see this.

 

B

 

 

help, please.

The amount of alcohol consumed by using vodka as a solvent is minuscule. A shot glass is approximately 40 ml. The homebrew method requires 2 ml per 1 mg benzo. At your dose that’s 6 ml per day. That is a tiny amount. The comment from that FB group is complete fear-mongering. No one drinks just 6 ml of alcohol when they’re having a drink (and it’s all in one serving, not over the course of a week).

I can't help, except to say that the idea of the vodka scares me too. I just posted about my taper. I'm up for the dry micro taper but I am not sure of the overall effect (big picture). Read it if you care to discuss it. Seems like you have lots more experience with this than I do for sure.

 

 

 

the admin in benzo group warns this and i am genuinely scared now.   i hve been using it since Nov.     maybe it's set me back and causing my stuff. and what about being cast into a WD no one can pull us out of. oh, i wish an admin would set me straight.  am i hurting my brain more and gabas by using vodka.  and, i am drinking a shot glass full  worth , in a week.       so worried.  my brain will be worse off.    here's what the admin wrote.

 

"Having just 1 or 2 drinks can be enough to throw you into a withdrawal that you might not be able to pull yourself out of - and NOBODY will able to get you back on track with your taper or post-taper withdrawal (some people had to reinstate all the way back to the beginning - or updose even higher than their beginning and start all over again).

 

This is because the primary effect of alcohol is the upregulation of glutamatergic receptors (alcohol opens the chloride ion channel of GABA receptors directly, so the body responds with more glutamate - the changes to the GABA receptors aren't as severe as with benzos). And these glutamatergic receptors are not homeostatic like GABA receptors - changes to glutamatergic receptors tend to stick around. Couple that with already weakened GABA receptors, and you are putting yourself at VERY serious risk for protracted withdrawal or being thrown back into acute withdrawal, no matter how well you are doing with your taper or how well your taper went.

 

Please reconsider not drinking until long after your taper is finished - say about 2 years or so, just to make sure that all of your receptors have recovered (some people would say to never take a GABA agonist or positive allosteric modulator ever again).

 

There are members who went 12 months or more after a taper who ended up back in withdrawal after consuming alcohol just once and not much of it.. Please, please, please be careful with anything which impacts GABA receptors upsetting an already fragile and raw system post benzo taper. Nobody wants to re.."

 

I have no desire to consume alcohol, but I do appreciate you telling me this in case I'm ever tempted. Now I am concerned about these gaba agonists and positive allosteric modulators....

 

I have so much to learn.

 

Thank you

Cathy, the Liquid Benzo's made at the pharmaceutical companies has alcohol and many people have withdrawn off it.  It doesn't have enough in it to keep you from healing.  You will be fine.  :smitten: 

Cathy, the Liquid Benzo's made at the pharmaceutical companies has alcohol and many people have withdrawn off it.  It doesn't have enough in it to keep you from healing.  You will be fine.  :smitten:

 

they really do, is there proof of that?  i am needing proof, not that i don't believe eyou,  need to see it with my eyes, that they do, so i can CALM DOWN.       

Cathy, the Liquid Benzo's made at the pharmaceutical companies has alcohol and many people have withdrawn off it.  It doesn't have enough in it to keep you from healing.  You will be fine.  :smitten:

 

they really do, is there proof of that?  i am needing proof, not that i don't believe eyou,  need to see it with my eyes, that they do, so i can CALM DOWN.     

 

I would go on google and ask for ingredients in Roxann Liquid Diazapam, it's on the side of my bottle

Cathyup, Kitsume posted good advice and Mary also. Many have used Vodka and have not had any ill effects, it is such a small amt. Of course we are all different. Sad that people on FB and other places scare others.

 

I know several people that have successfully used either Rx liquid or homebrew method to taper. Builder (one of the members here is one of them).

 

This is from the PDF of the Rx Diazepam from Roxane.

 

DIAZEPAM Oral Solution 5 mg per 5 mL DIAZEPAM Intensol TM Oral Solution (Concentrate) 5 mg per mL

DESCRIPTION

Each mL of IntensolTM Oral Solution (Concentrate) contains: Diazepam........................................5 mg Alcohol............................................19%

Inactive Ingredients:

The wintergreen-spice flavored 5 mg/5 mL Oral Solution contains bitterness modifier, citric acid, D&C Yellow No. 10, FD&C Red No. 40, flavoring, polyethylene glycol, propylene glycol, sodium citrate, sorbitol, and water.

The 5 mg/mL IntensolTM Oral Solution (Concentrate) contains alcohol, D&C Yellow No. 10, polyethylene glycol, propylene glycol, succinic acid, and water.

Cathy

 

The 25 mg per 5 mL (5 mg/mL) IntensolTM Oral Solution (Concentrate) contains alcohol, D&C Yellow No. 10, polyethylene glycol, propylene glycol, succinic acid and water. Diazepam is a benzodiazepine that exerts anxiolytic, sedative, muscle-relaxant, anticonvulsant and amnestic effects.

https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov › drug...

 

 

Cathy, did that help you calm down ?

Cathy, I used the "vodka method" for the whole of my taper -- 3 years. I dissolved 1 mg of valium in 1 ml of vodka and added water.

 

I am certain doing so did not affect my gaba receptors or any other receptors. I felt fine.

 

Yes, as Mary posted, the pharma valium is 19% alcohol. What you would ingest in the "vodka method" is way, way, less. Mouthwash contains alcohol also. 

 

I think we can get a little wiggy about our damaging our gaba receptors.

 

I get it that you're scared, but does any of what we're telling you make you less scared?

 

If you're still scared, you could always cut and hold. Or use OraPlus as a suspension medium. Or milk. But you will not get a true solution, just a suspension.  I wanted a true solution. Tapering is distressing enough -- I did not want to worry that my valium wasn't equally distributed in my liquid.

 

However, you have to do what seems right for you.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Katz

Cathy, did that help you calm down ?

 

 

 

YES!!!!!!!!!!!! <3  <3  thankyou thankyou thankyou.  frrom the bottom of my heart.  btw..i am now down to 3.06 mg of lorazepam  down from 3.75.

 

Cathy, I used the "vodka method" for the whole of my taper -- 3 years. I dissolved 1 mg of valium in 1 ml of vodka and added water.

 

I am certain doing so did not affect my gaba receptors or any other receptors. I felt fine.

 

Yes, as Mary posted, the pharma valium is 19% alcohol. What you would ingest in the "vodka method" is way, way, less. Mouthwash contains alcohol also. 

 

I think we can get a little wiggy about our damaging our gaba receptors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

THANKYOU!!! :smitten:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, this helps put it in perspective so much and helps me so much, thankyou thankyou to ALL of you, kindly. <3 :smitten:

 

I get it that you're scared, but does any of what we're telling you make you less scared?

 

If you're still scared, you could always cut and hold. Or use OraPlus as a suspension medium. Or milk. But you will not get a true solution, just a suspension.  I wanted a true solution. Tapering is distressing enough -- I did not want to worry that my valium wasn't equally distributed in my liquid.

 

However, you have to do what seems right for you.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Katz

Cathy, did that help you calm down ?

 

 

 

YES!!!!!!!!!!!! <3  <3  thankyou thankyou thankyou.  frrom the bottom of my heart.  btw..i am now down to 3.06 mg of lorazepam  down from 3.75.

 

Good job!!   

 

 

oh, no, now the big chief admin, who is quite smart, i must add, scared me with this.  i am so sick of up down scaring.     is it OK TO USE VODKA OR NOT.  and, maybe that is why i have waves every darned day.  is maybe my Vodka taper causing a wave daily...you guys, could this be the reason i am always in a wave??        i am an emotional roller coasster.

 

 

he said this: Cathy, some do create a solution using alcohol in order to taper. Others create a suspension using water, which is just as accurate if done correctly.

 

Using alcohol in this way is a personal choice. There's no one size fits all.

 

Given alcohol is a potent GABA agonist, one which directly impacts upon a benzo injury, many would wish to avoid it completely in withdrawal. Even trace amounts can cause adverse reactions, especially if we're sensitive (although it may be fair to say that the risk is greater once we're off the benzo). Whatever works for you.

 

I used a manufactured oral solution, and would have rejected the ethanol version if it had been offered. My medical records now show that I'm allergic to alcohol. I can't afford to go anywhere near it, and couldn't imagine using it to taper.

 

  i wonder if it's this vodka solution causing my daily waves.  i get not reprieve.  or is it just the beast benzo WD.

i wonder if it's this vodka solution causing my daily waves.  i get not reprieve.  or is it just the beast benzo WD.

 

Cathy, I doubt this. imo it's w/d. Not to minimize what you're feeling, but we all felt/feel rotten during w/d. I sure did. But there's only one way to test it, right? Do something else that doesn't involve vodka.

 

Looking at your complicated sig, I don't doubt how rotten you feel. You have had a hard time, haven't you? But I find it difficult to believe it's the miniscule amount of vodka in a DLMT that's the culprit. Of course I could be wrong.

 

btw i think you'd do yourself a big favor if you stayed off FB. The "big chief admin" who said this is just plain wrong.:

 

Cathy, some do create a solution using alcohol in order to taper. Others create a suspension using water, which is just as accurate if done correctly.

 

 

Cathy, a water suspension is simply not as accurate, as effective, or safe. Have you followed the discussions about water suspensions on here?

 

And this:

 

Given alcohol is a potent GABA agonist, one which directly impacts upon a benzo injury, many would wish to avoid it completely in withdrawal. Even trace amounts can cause adverse reactions

 

For heaven's sake . . . that means (if it were true, which it isn't . . . the "trace amounts reference") no one could use the Pharma valium due to its considerable alcohol content (19%) or we would be further injured. And that's (sorry) a lot of BS. Ppl use the liquid valium all the time.

 

And again, if this is all freaking you out, stop doing it. Dry cut. Or . . . there are other ways of tapering, and other liquids to use. Plain water, though, is not one of them.

 

And I'm going to go way out on a limb here and say perhaps you need to decide whose advice to take: BB or FB. The "big chief admin" or ppl on here? I know whose advice I would take. And did take.

 

Best to you, Cathy. I'm sorry you feel so rotten. Daily waves are awful, I know.

 

Katz