Please Help Choosing Solvent & Calculations

I've been a member of BB for a long time and every year I come back and think if I had just started to taper in year X, I'd be down to Y. Last year, I had a bad reaction to an antibiotic that finally got me motivated enough to buy supplies and liquefy my dose.

 

I eventually told my doc and it was a bad time to attempt. I was still dealing with the s/x from the antibiotic and I quit after maybe 2 nights of using liquid and no cutting because I was just trying to see how I would respond to the benzo in liquid form. It was rough!

 

I used builder's calc - 1mg + 2ml solvent + 8ml water

 

I used 80 proof vodka and not gonna lie, it felt weird. As someone who stopped drinking alcohol because I was on a benzo, it was weird tasting a slight vodka taste. I dose 2X a day and this was never gonna work for my morning dose because who wants to taste vodka in the morning.

 

I also don't think this formula is great for long-term user's because 1ml = .1mg. I obviously wasn't gonna pull 1ml and 10ml of solution is so small that trying to use a 1ml syringe to pull .004mg with filler's and binder's floating around is a nightmare.

 

So now that I've got my feet wet, I'm ready to try again. I'm thinking propylene glycol or almond milk (lactose intolerant). Is almond milk in the US homogenized?

 

Nobody really mentions milk anymore as vodka or PG seem to be more popular now. Is milk more of a suspension than a true solution? I heard something about over concentrating with milk and then the pill sticks to the side of the glass...?

 

Would these calculations be correct and work?

 

So for PG, I want a daily solution of 200ml. So 1mg + 2ml PG + 198ml of water. So 1ml = .005mg, right?

 

And if I go with almond milk, 1mg + 200ml of almond milk. 1ml pulls equal .005mg, right?

 

The point of doing a 200ml solution for me is that over the course of a month, I'd be down 5ish%. I want to go really slow. I also want a super easy 1ml pull because I'm not trying to count the tiny lines of a 1ml syringe.

 

Please let me know if these calculations sound right. I am a numbers guy and sort of threw this together using a combo of builder's formula and watching other videos on YT.

 

The downside to almond milk is that I'd be buying a lot of it, right?

 

Thanks in advance!

Hello, goya14.

 

I have read about multiple members who have had success with using a milk-based liquid to taper clonazepam (J Stone comes to mind) so let me address your questions on that topic.

 

Your calculation for the concentration of a homemade liquid prepared using a 1mg tablet of clonazepam and 200mL of milk is correct (1/200 = 0.005 mg/mL).  If you want to double-check, here’s an online tool you might find helpful:

 

TripSit Volumetric Dosing Tool

http://volume.tripsit.me/

 

My layperson’s understanding is that if one elects to make a homemade liquid using milk, the two requirements for the type of milk used are:

 

(1) It must have a sufficiently high fat content.

(2) It must be homogenized.

 

I found the following post from another member (whom I believe has a medical/science background) helpful in understanding why the above requirements are important.

 

The solution/suspension of Valium in milk issue is a little tricky. Milk is technically an emulsified colloid. Valium is in solution with the fat globules in milk, but the fat globules in turn are in suspension with the water in milk. You could sort of say you Valium/milk brew is both a solution and a suspension. I would do at least a little stirring. The particulate matter is just fillers. Personally, I use Ora-Plus/Sweet which makes a suspension with Valium. I stir it for 5-10 seconds before withdrawing my dose. There do not seem to any problems with this as far as I can tell.

 

I don’t know if commercially available almond milk is homogenized or not.  If I were you I would check with the manufacturer of whatever brand you’re thinking about using.

 

A quick Google search suggests that commercial almond milk has less than half the fat of whole milk.  So my layperson’s brain wonders “Is that enough fat?”  (I have no idea -  I’m just raising the question).

 

You’ve indicated you have issue with lactose.  Is lactose-free, whole homogenized milk an option?

 

Pamster

Hello and thanks for the response!

 

Before I saw your reply, I got a bit frustrated and ordered the Gemini scale and nail file. Should I try that method first or should I return the scale before I open it and get myself a 100ml graduated cylinder? I'd don't see why I wouldn't be able to find lactose-free whole milk.

 

My hesitation about dry cutting is my 1mg tab is not scored. Do you think non-scored pills are pretty much evenly distributed? Cuts would be a little faster at 0.05mg to start.

 

I could be trying to put the process off longer, so which method would you recommend to an absolute beginner to increase chance of success?

 

Oh and can you check my dry cut math?

 

1mg tab - 0.05mg = .95mg

(.95mg/1mg)*avg weight of pills = weight of dose

 

Thank you!

 

 

Hi goya,

 

I wouldn't do pill shaving using an unscored tablet, how about using a mortar an pestle to grind the tablet into powder then weigh it?  If you'll click on this link and select Direct you'll come to another page with a tab on the bottom right which says Read Me First, this will detail how to do it.  http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/ 

 

Here is a video. 

 

Why don't you take a look at the links I've provided and then lets talk.  Indecision can be stressful so have a look at the dry method and if that doesn't look like something you want to do, then we'll get back to liquid.  No sense overloading you if you don't need to travel this path just yet. 

 

Pamster

 

 

 

 

goya, how much milk with lactose can you drink and not be bothered?

 

I'm wondering if you can make a solution that's more concentrated and therefore uses less milk? I don't know how much milk is needed to dissolve the amount of Klonopin you're trying to dissolve.

 

You can also taper using a mix of whole pills and titrated (cut dry or made into liquid solutions) pills, if that makes sense. So if you took swallowed one 0.5mg pill whole and then titrated your other 0.5mg pill, could you get the amount you're trying for? Sorry I do not have experience with daily tapers, but I'm trying to figure out a few different ways how you can use less liquid, whether it's the lactose you don't tolerate or the vodka.

 

Good luck!

goya, how much milk with lactose can you drink and not be bothered?

 

I'm wondering if you can make a solution that's more concentrated and therefore uses less milk? I don't know how much milk is needed to dissolve the amount of Klonopin you're trying to dissolve.

 

You can also taper using a mix of whole pills and titrated (cut dry or made into liquid solutions) pills, if that makes sense. So if you took swallowed one 0.5mg pill whole and then titrated your other 0.5mg pill, could you get the amount you're trying for? Sorry I do not have experience with daily tapers, but I'm trying to figure out a few different ways how you can use less liquid, whether it's the lactose you don't tolerate or the vodka.

 

Good luck!

 

This is a video of what haveagreatday may be suggesting, making your own pills with your titrated dose.  Bob7 Benzo Dry Taper Method 

Hi goya,

 

I wouldn't do pill shaving using an unscored tablet, how about using a mortar an pestle to grind the tablet into powder then weigh it?  If you'll click on this link and select Direct you'll come to another page with a tab on the bottom right which says Read Me First, this will detail how to do it.  http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/ 

 

Here is a video. 

 

Why don't you take a look at the links I've provided and then lets talk.  Indecision can be stressful so have a look at the dry method and if that doesn't look like something you want to do, then we'll get back to liquid.  No sense overloading you if you don't need to travel this path just yet. 

 

Pamster

 

I agree. Probably shouldn't pill shave with an unscored tab because I might just be shaving off fillers and binders.

 

I did watch the video you suggested before I bought the Gemini. Honestly, the guy who made it kind of sold me when he said it gives you a sense of control over your taper. It did seem very involved.

 

Oh well, the Gemini still hasn't arrived, so I won't even open it and hopefully Amazon will take it back.

 

I did check the grocery store and we do have lactose-free homogenized milk. All of the other milks - almond, coconut, rice, etc I couldn't find the homogenized label, so guess those are out.

 

The math route is super easy for milk, too. You think it's a good way to start?

 

goya, how much milk with lactose can you drink and not be bothered?

 

I'm wondering if you can make a solution that's more concentrated and therefore uses less milk? I don't know how much milk is needed to dissolve the amount of Klonopin you're trying to dissolve.

 

You can also taper using a mix of whole pills and titrated (cut dry or made into liquid solutions) pills, if that makes sense. So if you took swallowed one 0.5mg pill whole and then titrated your other 0.5mg pill, could you get the amount you're trying for? Sorry I do not have experience with daily tapers, but I'm trying to figure out a few different ways how you can use less liquid, whether it's the lactose you don't tolerate or the vodka.

 

Good luck!

 

Hello. I could but the only other time I tried with vodka as a solvent, there wasn't much liquid for me to pull with my 1ml syringe. I want to go slow and pulling 1ml from 200ml seems easy and basic. I could even use 100ml for a .01 pull which I think is pretty slow.

 

I just need to start. First appointment of each year, my doc always brings up tapering. Like most doctors, she thinks you can just cut .25mg tabs. Showing effort goes a long way with her. So the way I see it, I can show her I'm trying and hopefully my way works or eventually she'll force her plan on me. I'd rather be in control.

I started with whole milk back in September, and used it to get myself from 1mg down to 0.83mg. I ended up switching to vodka because I got tired of milk, but it is definitely an option. Good luck!